NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

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QContinuum

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NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by QContinuum » Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:14 am

This just in: https://nysba.org/state-bar-task-force- ... -york-law/ (hat tip to Joe Seperac for the heads-up).

On a quick read, the proposed changes look awful on multiple levels. First, the task force is effectively pushing to have NY ditch the UBE. Specifically, the recommendation is for NY to still administer the UBE, but to make the UBE neither necessary nor sufficient for admission to the NY bar. Instead, the proposal is to require, at each candidate's choice, either 1) UBE + "rigorous" NY component (for candidates who wish to earn a UBE score for use in other jurisdictions), or 2) MBE only + "rigorous" NY component (for candidates who're only interested in NY bar admission). So if this goes through, NY will be a UBE state in name only, basically, because the only component of the UBE that will really "count" in NY is the MBE.

Of course, the task force, realizing that pushing to make NY non-UBE again would be massively unpopular, doesn't expressly admit it's pushing to ditch the UBE. But that's effectively what its proposal amounts to: returning NY to its pre-UBE state.
NYSBA wrote:those who want to practice in New York must take a rigorous New York law examination and the multi-state bar examination, which was the format prior to the UBE
The second boneheaded proposal is to introduce some form of diploma privilege. Again, the task force declines to actually use the words "diploma privilege" for PR reasons, but that's basically what the proposal amounts to:
NYSBA wrote:Consider a New York law Certification program that would allow people to forego the bar exam entirely. Under this program, ABA-accredited law schools inside and outside of New York would offer courses that include New York law-based content.
You know what this'll result in? T4 and unranked law schools around the country will start offering "New York law-based content" yesterday. They'll actually require their students to take these classes so they will be NY-barred upon graduation. No longer will they risk losing ABA accreditation due to low bar pass rates.

Very important to note that the NYSBA is a voluntary bar association, and not an integrated bar. Hopefully the NY Court of Appeals sees sense and declines to adopt the NYSBA task force's recommendations.

FND

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Re: NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by FND » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:24 pm

Actually, I'm all for NY not doing the UBE. The UBE is great for lots of states that effectively just adopt the uniform codes, but for states with lots of quirky laws, it's a mistake. NY has some major differences from the model laws, and anyone practicing in NY should be tested on those*

*of course, I'd also be for limited bar/practice areas. In many countries the law is split into different specialties, where lawyers end up with a law degree in, and can only practice doing e.g. corporate, litigation, tax, or notary law (T&E, real estate, pre-nups, and divorces)

Vr1234

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Re: NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by Vr1234 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am

These people really have nothing better to do with their time. The UBE is fine, it's one of the best decisions the bar in NY has made. The bar exam is a trash way to qualify lawyers anyway.

FND

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Re: NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by FND » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:13 pm

Vr1234 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am
These people really have nothing better to do with their time. The UBE is fine, it's one of the best decisions the bar in NY has made. The bar exam is a trash way to qualify lawyers anyway.
The UBE is fine for states that mostly just accept model laws. For states that have a lot of peculiar laws, the exam should test those peculiar laws.

There are too many attorneys giving bad advice because they don't know the laws of their own states.

lavarman84

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Re: NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by lavarman84 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:13 pm

FND wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:13 pm
Vr1234 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am
These people really have nothing better to do with their time. The UBE is fine, it's one of the best decisions the bar in NY has made. The bar exam is a trash way to qualify lawyers anyway.
The UBE is fine for states that mostly just accept model laws. For states that have a lot of peculiar laws, the exam should test those peculiar laws.

There are too many attorneys giving bad advice because they don't know the laws of their own states.
The bar isn't going to fix that.

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FND

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Re: NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by FND » Sat May 01, 2021 9:05 am

lavarman84 wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:13 pm
FND wrote:
Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:13 pm
Vr1234 wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am
These people really have nothing better to do with their time. The UBE is fine, it's one of the best decisions the bar in NY has made. The bar exam is a trash way to qualify lawyers anyway.
The UBE is fine for states that mostly just accept model laws. For states that have a lot of peculiar laws, the exam should test those peculiar laws.

There are too many attorneys giving bad advice because they don't know the laws of their own states.
The bar isn't going to fix that.
we can argue about the utility of a bar exam (I personally am against it), but if there is going to be a bar exam, I think states that have a lot of unusual laws should test State law. The UBE (and MBE, for that matter) is fine for states that don't really have that many unique rules, but states like CA, FL, NY and TX, those states should test their own laws.

lavarman84

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Re: NY State Bar Association Pushing to Restore Pre-UBE NY Bar

Post by lavarman84 » Sat May 01, 2021 1:53 pm

FND wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 9:05 am
we can argue about the utility of a bar exam (I personally am against it), but if there is going to be a bar exam, I think states that have a lot of unusual laws should test State law. The UBE (and MBE, for that matter) is fine for states that don't really have that many unique rules, but states like CA, FL, NY and TX, those states should test their own laws.
Nah. Every state should go to the UBE if they're going to keep the bar.

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