Cardozo wait list. Help~~ Forum

[jacklsat]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

[sjp200]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

You're gonna need to mention some stats and what you want to do and where you expect to practice

[TLSModBot]

Don't go to law school. Hth.

[Mikey]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

What are your numbers? What do you plan on doing after law school?

As to whether it's a good school or not, I know several people who go there/graduated from there. They generally like it and say it's a nice place to study law, but employment prospects are just not that great. One person I know who graduated from Cardozo had graduated at median and she could not find a job for quite some time. She ended up nailing a job at a small firm after a while but her pay sucks. I honestly would only go to Cardozo with a full ride, or very very close to it.

[eagle2a]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

[jacklsat]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

What are your numbers? What do you plan on doing after law school?

As to whether it's a good school or not, I know several people who go there/graduated from there. They generally like it and say it's a nice place to study law, but employment prospects are just not that great. One person I know who graduated from Cardozo had graduated at median and she could not find a job for quite some time. She ended up nailing a job at a small firm after a while but her pay sucks. I honestly would only go to Cardozo with a full ride, or very very close to it.

Thanks man.I think I have a fat chance to get into Cardozo based on my 25%LSAT score and median GPA. What attracts me the most is the big market in NY. But without any financial support from school, it's nearly impossible for me to live in NY on my own. I got a con offer from UNSW in Australia last week, but I really want to study in USA. So I'll be waiting for results of other law schools I applied. If the employment prospects are as terrible as you said, probably a T60 law school is not my best choice.

[jacklsat]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

[Mikey]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

What are your numbers? What do you plan on doing after law school?

As to whether it's a good school or not, I know several people who go there/graduated from there. They generally like it and say it's a nice place to study law, but employment prospects are just not that great. One person I know who graduated from Cardozo had graduated at median and she could not find a job for quite some time. She ended up nailing a job at a small firm after a while but her pay sucks. I honestly would only go to Cardozo with a full ride, or very very close to it.

Thanks man.I think I have a fat chance to get into Cardozo based on my 25%LSAT score and median GPA. What attracts me the most is the big market in NY. But without any financial support from school, it's nearly impossible for me to live in NY on my own. I got a con offer from UNSW in Australia last week, but I really want to study in USA. So I'll be waiting for results of other law schools I applied. If the employment prospects are as terrible as you said, probably a T60 law school is not my best choice.

I mean employment prospects from Cardozo aren't HORRIBLE, but they're not great either. I live in NYC and yes although the legal market here is huge, there is still an over saturation of lawyers. Cardozo students compete for jobs against graduates from Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Fordham, and that's just the NY law schools and not including all of the T14 grads who come here. The chances of biglaw from Cardozo are very slim. If biglaw is not what you want then Cardozo won't be such a bad decision, but it is very risky if you're not getting a huge scholarship. Good luck!

[fliptrip]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

[jacklsat]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

What are your numbers? What do you plan on doing after law school?

As to whether it's a good school or not, I know several people who go there/graduated from there. They generally like it and say it's a nice place to study law, but employment prospects are just not that great. One person I know who graduated from Cardozo had graduated at median and she could not find a job for quite some time. She ended up nailing a job at a small firm after a while but her pay sucks. I honestly would only go to Cardozo with a full ride, or very very close to it.

Thanks man.I think I have a fat chance to get into Cardozo based on my 25%LSAT score and median GPA. What attracts me the most is the big market in NY. But without any financial support from school, it's nearly impossible for me to live in NY on my own. I got a con offer from UNSW in Australia last week, but I really want to study in USA. So I'll be waiting for results of other law schools I applied. If the employment prospects are as terrible as you said, probably a T60 law school is not my best choice.

I mean employment prospects from Cardozo aren't HORRIBLE, but they're not great either. I live in NYC and yes although the legal market here is huge, there is still an over saturation of lawyers. Cardozo students compete for jobs against graduates from Columbia, NYU, Cornell and Fordham, and that's just the NY law schools and not including all of the T14 grads who come here. The chances of biglaw from Cardozo are very slim. If biglaw is not what you want then Cardozo won't be such a bad decision, but it is very risky if you're not getting a huge scholarship. Good luck!

Thank you. I really appreciate that. I majored in English Literature and I've only had an internship in a small law firm last year. My softs are really weak. I guess being an Asian applicant, I'm weaker. Good Luck for you as well.

[jacklsat]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

[Clearly]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

[lillawyer2]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

[jacklsat]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

Thank you. You're a true friend! I learned from LSAT that you have to assess your risks and give up something when necessary. Like I said, since I can't change the current score, what I can do is to work on other materials to fix the hole. I know that some people graduated from T100 law schools got high-paid jobs. It's rare but it's possible. I want to go to a T14 school, but sometimes you just can't get what you want. I don't want to waste one year on this test even the result could be surprising. I'm not an easy quitter, but I have to focus on what really matters. It's all about mathematics. A lawyer should be passionate about his work, but he should become a rational person first.

[Clearly]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

Thank you. You're a true friend! I learned from LSAT that you have to assess your risks and give up something when necessary. Like I said, since I can't change the current score, what I can do is to work on other materials to fix the hole. I know that some people graduated from T100 law schools got high-paid jobs. It's rare but it's possible. I want to go to a T14 school, but sometimes you just can't get what you want. I don't want to waste one year on this test even the result could be surprising. I'm not an easy quitter, but I have to focus on what really matters. It's all about mathematics. A lawyer should be passionate about his work, but he should become a rational person first.

Stop. Legal hiring is a fucking bloodbath. People end up fucking up their WHOLE LIVES by doing this. You should be ashamed at justifying this decision under the guise of a rational person. Literally every other person in this thread is telling you not to do this. You are going to listen to the only person here who has never attended a day of law school, much less been through legal hiring or paying back student loan debt? It's not better out there than the data suggests. Understand that the data are legit. Many many people don't get to practice law for money. Those that do overwhelmingly make ~$50k a year. The things you are saying about legal employment and your reasons for picking Cardozo indicate that you don't know anything about legal employment. That is totally fine! Very few of us did when we created our accounts. Ask more questions, look at the data, do your own calculations based on cost at repayment. Given Cardozo at sticker or not going to law school, the smart choice is not going to law school. That's not TLS being elitist, that's just common sense. If you look at the most likely outcomes from that school, and then the loan payments you would have to make, you would soon realize that it is impossible without government assistance. Next step is research that government assistance, and ask yourself if the degree is such that you need to rely on (shaky) government funding just to bail you out, is it a good idea in the first place? Consider how comfortable you would be making 50k a year if you're lucky, while living under the weight of 300,000 of debt that won't disappear (and in fact continues to grow because of interest).

I'm not telling you the only way to go to law school is at a T14, it's not. There are a lot of smart ways of playing this, but Cardozo at sticker is never ever one of them. Continue trying to raise your LSAT score, try to get significant money from lesser schools. Consider CUNY, similar employment percentages (mostly in PI) and CONSIDERABLY lower tuition. These are things you need to consider before you literally fuck your entire life up because you listened to the ONE stupid comment about following your dreams and fucking law school participation trophies.

The secret is TLS is actually a wealth of experienced knowledge. It can be a little rough around the edges sure, but no where else on earth can you find this many experienced and intelligent people willing to genuinely help you make a good decision for your future. Keep reading and recalculating, you can find a way to be a lawyer that isn't doomed from the beginning.

[jrass]

If you got wait listed from Cardozo your odds of finding gainful employment are under 10 percent. In all likelihood these 3 years will be the best of your life and you'll never practice law. Knowing this why not go where you'll have the best time? There's no point in focusing on jobs and the like. Have you considered Hawaii? You need to approach it accepting your next 30 years will be terrible and focusing on going to the place that's most fun. Don't sweat rankings or that garbage. Yolo now so it's worth it later.

[ihenry]

Settling for a T2 law school is NOT like settling for a T2 undergrad -- combining tuition, COL, travel, opportunity cost, etc., I'm sure an American JD can cost, literally, a whopping 100 times more than how much you paid to Beijing Union University. And considering that without an American undergrad degree Chinese students at T6 get struck out at OCI, and that you will have trouble getting h1b from small law even if you want to, your future in the U.S. from Cardozo is literally zero: not just dim, but ZERO. Your best bet would be to that JD, go back to China, and hope that this "gold-plating" will somehow give you an edge in finding a job at law firm. However, there have always been rumors that without a bachelor of law in China, you won't qualify to even sit for Chinese bar (let alone its difficulty). Are you really willing to gamble 2 million yuan for a slim chance to find a decent legal job anywhere?

You said you have sacrificed an admiring lot to prepare for the lsat; you probably didn't do too well in your gaokao either. That's alright! Not everyone is good at taking tests, but you have to weigh your options with caution. I feel UNSW is decent at least in Australia, the cost is much lower, and you have much stronger chance to stay in Australia and get at least an above average job. This outcome is going to be so much better than paying 2 million yuan to get your Cardozo degree. Educate yourself and, if your parents are footing the bill, educate them. It's not that people automatically get prestigious by attending a low-tier American law school; rather, making this poor investment per se can indicate stupidity. Think about it.

[Tls2016]

OP is you don't have a green card you have 0% chance of getting a job as a lawyer in the US from Cardozo. No firm will sponsor you and in the tiny chance they did, you have only a small chance of winning a H1B visa lottery.

Coming to the US for this school and the insane cost is not worth it.

Maybe Australia is better. I don't know.

By the way, working many law jobs in the US will require you to sacrifice a lot from your life.

[BasilHallward]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

Thank you. You're a true friend! I learned from LSAT that you have to assess your risks and give up something when necessary. Like I said, since I can't change the current score, what I can do is to work on other materials to fix the hole. I know that some people graduated from T100 law schools got high-paid jobs. It's rare but it's possible. I want to go to a T14 school, but sometimes you just can't get what you want. I don't want to waste one year on this test even the result could be surprising. I'm not an easy quitter, but I have to focus on what really matters. It's all about mathematics. A lawyer should be passionate about his work, but he should become a rational person first.

The insight you've given us clearly shows that you are on the wrong side of the inequality. In all sincerity OP, if you go to Cardozo off the waitlist or the like, you will paying 40-50k per year in tuition plus living in NY (25-30k per year). Add interest and you're looking at an insurmountable amount of debt. Now, unless you have crazy wealthy parents or something, the math is just not in your favor. Do not take a leap of faith because you think American law schools will deliver some kind of life-changing (for the better) experience. Also, it looks like English is your second language. I commend your ability to sit for the LSAT as a foreigner, but law school is tougher on people who are not as nimble and polished with the language.

Edit: Spelling

[sd5289]

Stop. Legal hiring is a fucking bloodbath. People end up fucking up their WHOLE LIVES by doing this. You should be ashamed at justifying this decision under the guise of a rational person. Literally every other person in this thread is telling you not to do this. You are going to listen to the only person here who has never attended a day of law school, much less been through legal hiring or paying back student loan debt? It's not better out there than the data suggests. Understand that the data are legit. Many many people don't get to practice law for money. Those that do overwhelmingly make ~$50k a year. The things you are saying about legal employment and your reasons for picking Cardozo indicate that you don't know anything about legal employment. That is totally fine! Very few of us did when we created our accounts. Ask more questions, look at the data, do your own calculations based on cost at repayment. Given Cardozo at sticker or not going to law school, the smart choice is not going to law school. That's not TLS being elitist, that's just common sense. If you look at the most likely outcomes from that school, and then the loan payments you would have to make, you would soon realize that it is impossible without government assistance. Next step is research that government assistance, and ask yourself if the degree is such that you need to rely on (shaky) government funding just to bail you out, is it a good idea in the first place? Consider how comfortable you would be making 50k a year if you're lucky, while living under the weight of 300,000 of debt that won't disappear (and in fact continues to grow because of interest).

I'm not telling you the only way to go to law school is at a T14, it's not. There are a lot of smart ways of playing this, but Cardozo at sticker is never ever one of them. Continue trying to raise your LSAT score, try to get significant money from lesser schools. Consider CUNY, similar employment percentages (mostly in PI) and CONSIDERABLY lower tuition. These are things you need to consider before you literally fuck your entire life up because you listened to the ONE stupid comment about following your dreams and fucking law school participation trophies.

The secret is TLS is actually a wealth of experienced knowledge. It can be a little rough around the edges sure, but no where else on earth can you find this many experienced and intelligent people willing to genuinely help you make a good decision for your future. Keep reading and recalculating, you can find a way to be a lawyer that isn't doomed from the beginning.

^ Listen to this person (I say this as someone who graduated from 'Dozo after only going there for the full ride, but ended up enjoying the school...as much as one can enjoy law school).

I understand that you're frustrated by the LSAT after taking it twice, and you're saying that you've sacrificed time and relationships studying for it. Here's the thing: what do you think 3 years of law school is going to do to your free time and relationships? What about the bar exam? Hell, my *wife* left our apt for the month of July because I just needed everyone to be gone during those last 3 weeks of bar study. How about your job? I have a JD-required government job, which is not a given out of this school, and there are still times that I'm coming home from work at 1:00 AM. If you think that skipping a retake option and jumping right into law school is going to free up your time and help you foster those relationships, you're wrong.

Listen to the people in this thread who have actually done it. The person who has no idea what they're talking about is the only person telling you not to retake the LSAT and to go to 'Dozo at sticker if you get in off the WL. A lot of the May program ends up being people off the WL, and I can tell you that from my experience (back when 'Dozo was still in the T50) that a lot of the students from that program didn't fare too well on either the bar exam or in employment prospects. Some did, but I can only think of maybe 5-6 of them who did.

[lillawyer2]

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.[/quote]

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.[/quote]

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents [/quote]


Thank you. You're a true friend! I learned from LSAT that you have to assess your risks and give up something when necessary. Like I said, since I can't change the current score, what I can do is to work on other materials to fix the hole. I know that some people graduated from T100 law schools got high-paid jobs. It's rare but it's possible. I want to go to a T14 school, but sometimes you just can't get what you want. I don't want to waste one year on this test even the result could be surprising. I'm not an easy quitter, but I have to focus on what really matters. It's all about mathematics. A lawyer should be passionate about his work, but he should become a rational person first.[/quote]
Stop. Legal hiring is a fucking bloodbath. People end up fucking up their WHOLE LIVES by doing this. You should be ashamed at justifying this decision under the guise of a rational person. Literally every other person in this thread is telling you not to do this. You are going to listen to the only person here who has never attended a day of law school, much less been through legal hiring or paying back student loan debt? It's not better out there than the data suggests. Understand that the data are legit. Many many people don't get to practice law for money. Those that do overwhelmingly make ~$50k a year. The things you are saying about legal employment and your reasons for picking Cardozo indicate that you don't know anything about legal employment. That is totally fine! Very few of us did when we created our accounts. Ask more questions, look at the data, do your own calculations based on cost at repayment. Given Cardozo at sticker or not going to law school, the smart choice is not going to law school. That's not TLS being elitist, that's just common sense. If you look at the most likely outcomes from that school, and then the loan payments you would have to make, you would soon realize that it is impossible without government assistance. Next step is research that government assistance, and ask yourself if the degree is such that you need to rely on (shaky) government funding just to bail you out, is it a good idea in the first place? Consider how comfortable you would be making 50k a year if you're lucky, while living under the weight of 300,000 of debt that won't disappear (and in fact continues to grow because of interest).

I'm not telling you the only way to go to law school is at a T14, it's not. There are a lot of smart ways of playing this, but Cardozo at sticker is never ever one of them. Continue trying to raise your LSAT score, try to get significant money from lesser schools. Consider CUNY, similar employment percentages (mostly in PI) and CONSIDERABLY lower tuition. These are things you need to consider before you literally fuck your entire life up because you listened to the ONE stupid comment about following your dreams and fucking law school participation trophies.

The secret is TLS is actually a wealth of experienced knowledge. It can be a little rough around the edges sure, but no where else on earth can you find this many experienced and intelligent people willing to genuinely help you make a good decision for your future. Keep reading and recalculating, you can find a way to be a lawyer that isn't doomed from the beginning.[/quote]


the bolded is really a smart suggestion. the last paragraph is too.

to the op, i was giving my opinion on a particular situation, but not ur situation entirely. if it is 300k ur facing of debt common sense will tell u what to do. u want to be a lawyer...do it the smart way.

my point is the lsat isnt the only path to a great legal career....

[lillawyer2]

Stop. Legal hiring is a fucking bloodbath. People end up fucking up their WHOLE LIVES by doing this. You should be ashamed at justifying this decision under the guise of a rational person. Literally every other person in this thread is telling you not to do this. You are going to listen to the only person here who has never attended a day of law school, much less been through legal hiring or paying back student loan debt? It's not better out there than the data suggests. Understand that the data are legit. Many many people don't get to practice law for money. Those that do overwhelmingly make ~$50k a year. The things you are saying about legal employment and your reasons for picking Cardozo indicate that you don't know anything about legal employment. That is totally fine! Very few of us did when we created our accounts. Ask more questions, look at the data, do your own calculations based on cost at repayment. Given Cardozo at sticker or not going to law school, the smart choice is not going to law school. That's not TLS being elitist, that's just common sense. If you look at the most likely outcomes from that school, and then the loan payments you would have to make, you would soon realize that it is impossible without government assistance. Next step is research that government assistance, and ask yourself if the degree is such that you need to rely on (shaky) government funding just to bail you out, is it a good idea in the first place? Consider how comfortable you would be making 50k a year if you're lucky, while living under the weight of 300,000 of debt that won't disappear (and in fact continues to grow because of interest).

I'm not telling you the only way to go to law school is at a T14, it's not. There are a lot of smart ways of playing this, but Cardozo at sticker is never ever one of them. Continue trying to raise your LSAT score, try to get significant money from lesser schools. Consider CUNY, similar employment percentages (mostly in PI) and CONSIDERABLY lower tuition. These are things you need to consider before you literally fuck your entire life up because you listened to the ONE stupid comment about following your dreams and fucking law school participation trophies.

The secret is TLS is actually a wealth of experienced knowledge. It can be a little rough around the edges sure, but no where else on earth can you find this many experienced and intelligent people willing to genuinely help you make a good decision for your future. Keep reading and recalculating, you can find a way to be a lawyer that isn't doomed from the beginning.

^ Listen to this person (I say this as someone who graduated from 'Dozo after only going there for the full ride, but ended up enjoying the school...as much as one can enjoy law school).

I understand that you're frustrated by the LSAT after taking it twice, and you're saying that you've sacrificed time and relationships studying for it. Here's the thing: what do you think 3 years of law school is going to do to your free time and relationships? What about the bar exam? Hell, my *wife* left our apt for the month of July because I just needed everyone to be gone during those last 3 weeks of bar study. How about your job? I have a JD-required government job, which is not a given out of this school, and there are still times that I'm coming home from work at 1:00 AM. If you think that skipping a retake option and jumping right into law school is going to free up your time and help you foster those relationships, you're wrong.

Listen to the people in this thread who have actually done it. The person who has no idea what they're talking about is the only person telling you not to retake the LSAT and to go to 'Dozo at sticker if you get in off the WL. A lot of the May program ends up being people off the WL, and I can tell you that from my experience (back when 'Dozo was still in the T50) that a lot of the students from that program didn't fare too well on either the bar exam or in employment prospects. Some did, but I can only think of maybe 5-6 of them who did.

never once told the op to go to dozo at sticker... didnt even quote the op but another poster.trying to give a different viewpoint that not everone is cut out ot retake that exam pver and over...that people have to move on in order to progress...


going to cardozo at sticker is something i would never do... i dnt think i would go to columbia at sticker...

another option would not retake but just apply early in the next cycle... the op can save some money up during that time... there is more than one way to get what you want...try to exhaust all angles...thats all im trying to say


i honestly think approach has the most to do with how i got through to op and others didnt...

tls is extremely harsh.. to the point that it is off putting, unnecessary and harsh...

i get it that people come here for advice but if the people here want them to listen to their advice...maybe the tone has to change..

tls gives really good advice...especially if u know how to sift through it.

op if ur only option is dozo at 300k...then take a long step to evaluating ur situation. does this make economic sense to you? do u have some sort of help? is this what you really want? do u think you can wait out for a little while..? maybe not retake the exam but just apply early the next cycle and by then u should have money saved up...ur able to relax a bit...build relationships...and lived life a little. then maybe by applying early...u can get ur hands on some scholarships and apply fo different schools that are MORE bank for your buck..

[Clearly]

Stop. Legal hiring is a fucking bloodbath. People end up fucking up their WHOLE LIVES by doing this. You should be ashamed at justifying this decision under the guise of a rational person. Literally every other person in this thread is telling you not to do this. You are going to listen to the only person here who has never attended a day of law school, much less been through legal hiring or paying back student loan debt? It's not better out there than the data suggests. Understand that the data are legit. Many many people don't get to practice law for money. Those that do overwhelmingly make ~$50k a year. The things you are saying about legal employment and your reasons for picking Cardozo indicate that you don't know anything about legal employment. That is totally fine! Very few of us did when we created our accounts. Ask more questions, look at the data, do your own calculations based on cost at repayment. Given Cardozo at sticker or not going to law school, the smart choice is not going to law school. That's not TLS being elitist, that's just common sense. If you look at the most likely outcomes from that school, and then the loan payments you would have to make, you would soon realize that it is impossible without government assistance. Next step is research that government assistance, and ask yourself if the degree is such that you need to rely on (shaky) government funding just to bail you out, is it a good idea in the first place? Consider how comfortable you would be making 50k a year if you're lucky, while living under the weight of 300,000 of debt that won't disappear (and in fact continues to grow because of interest).

I'm not telling you the only way to go to law school is at a T14, it's not. There are a lot of smart ways of playing this, but Cardozo at sticker is never ever one of them. Continue trying to raise your LSAT score, try to get significant money from lesser schools. Consider CUNY, similar employment percentages (mostly in PI) and CONSIDERABLY lower tuition. These are things you need to consider before you literally fuck your entire life up because you listened to the ONE stupid comment about following your dreams and fucking law school participation trophies.

The secret is TLS is actually a wealth of experienced knowledge. It can be a little rough around the edges sure, but no where else on earth can you find this many experienced and intelligent people willing to genuinely help you make a good decision for your future. Keep reading and recalculating, you can find a way to be a lawyer that isn't doomed from the beginning.

^ Listen to this person (I say this as someone who graduated from 'Dozo after only going there for the full ride, but ended up enjoying the school...as much as one can enjoy law school).

I understand that you're frustrated by the LSAT after taking it twice, and you're saying that you've sacrificed time and relationships studying for it. Here's the thing: what do you think 3 years of law school is going to do to your free time and relationships? What about the bar exam? Hell, my *wife* left our apt for the month of July because I just needed everyone to be gone during those last 3 weeks of bar study. How about your job? I have a JD-required government job, which is not a given out of this school, and there are still times that I'm coming home from work at 1:00 AM. If you think that skipping a retake option and jumping right into law school is going to free up your time and help you foster those relationships, you're wrong.

Listen to the people in this thread who have actually done it. The person who has no idea what they're talking about is the only person telling you not to retake the LSAT and to go to 'Dozo at sticker if you get in off the WL. A lot of the May program ends up being people off the WL, and I can tell you that from my experience (back when 'Dozo was still in the T50) that a lot of the students from that program didn't fare too well on either the bar exam or in employment prospects. Some did, but I can only think of maybe 5-6 of them who did.

never once told the op to go to dozo at sticker... didnt even quote the op but another poster.trying to give a different viewpoint that not everone is cut out ot retake that exam pver and over...that people have to move on in order to progress...


going to cardozo at sticker is something i would never do... i dnt think i would go to columbia at sticker...

another option would not retake but just apply early in the next cycle... the op can save some money up during that time... there is more than one way to get what you want...try to exhaust all angles...thats all im trying to say


i honestly think approach has the most to do with how i got through to op and others didnt...

tls is extremely harsh.. to the point that it is off putting, unnecessary and harsh...

i get it that people come here for advice but if the people here want them to listen to their advice...maybe the tone has to change..

tls gives really good advice...especially if u know how to sift through it.

op if ur only option is dozo at 300k...then take a long step to evaluating ur situation. does this make economic sense to you? do u have some sort of help? is this what you really want? do u think you can wait out for a little while..? maybe not retake the exam but just apply early the next cycle and by then u should have money saved up...ur able to relax a bit...build relationships...and lived life a little. then maybe by applying early...u can get ur hands on some scholarships and apply fo different schools that are MORE bank for your buck..

This is not true. That is 10000% confirmation bias. They came here because they wanted to go to a bad school without money, and you agreed with them. If they came here to jump off of a bridge, they would thank the one poster who recommended bridge jumping.

[Clearly]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

Tell me again how you didn't tell/suggest the OP of the thread to go for it.

[lillawyer2]

If you're getting waitlisted at Cardoza you need to retake the LSAT

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

Tell me again how you didn't tell/suggest the OP of the thread to go for it.

hmm thats reaching. i was talking about myself and i was addressing u and this whole LSAT retake situation.. i wasnt addressing op and his/her scenario...which is why i didnt mention ops prediciment or the school itself

wht i wrote basically was that i am much better off not focusing entirely on the lsat and i am trying to offset a potential scenario occuring by saving a lot of money and that i have no housng cost. bc of this i am without a doubt attending law school this year. this is the actually the exact opposite of op scenario...seemingly. i also tried to make it clear that this is my pov and im Not in LS and not a lawyer...so i am approaching this from a different angle...an angle of someone who is trying to make their dreams a pleasurable reality by not focusing on soley on the lsat.

this is y i put at the end my unwanted twocents bc i actually went on a tangent and didnt even address the op concenrs but addressed y people may not be so hell bent on retaking the lsat after a second time and how I am trying to offset not reaching above 170, by reducing the amount of loans i take out and saving across the board.