What are the five most overranked schools? Forum

[GreenEggs]

Gtown

GTTTown

[Troianii]

Rankings don't matter after top 20-ish. HTH.

Although I've heard some disturbing things about UPenn so be warned.

What about Penn now?

call-in

Look man I just hear the buzz that Penn's got some problems.

I believe it but, out of curiosity, how overranked do you think it is? 1 or 2 spots? I gather you're going off of "the buzz", but I can't see evidence on the surface for it being overranked more than one or *maybe* two spots.

[General_Tso]

Hence, "You're in a little late there...."

Thanks, the googly eye pet rock emoji makes your frustration with me palpable, many thanks

[Kali the Annihilator]

Which religious figure is ranked higher, Jesus or Buddha? I mean, just in terms of not getting nailed to stuff?

[nick417]

Rankings don't matter after top 20-ish. HTH.

Although I've heard some disturbing things about UPenn so be warned.

What about Penn now?

That is interesting, I am Philly area person and I haven't heard anything really bad about Penn besides the price tag and the location (University City isn't the nicest spot).

I am not sure what everyones definition of "overranked" is but to me, it would be any private schools that charges $40K+ to go there (or will leave you north of $150K in debt). Since the prevailing wisdom is to never go in debt more than your projected first year salary, and $160K is the max first year associates are getting, taking out more than that is a bad venture and thus overrated.

[radient]

Rankings don't matter after top 20-ish. HTH.

Although I've heard some disturbing things about UPenn so be warned.

What about Penn now?

That is interesting, I am Philly area person and I haven't heard anything really bad about Penn besides the price tag and the location (University City isn't the nicest spot).

I am not sure what everyones definition of "overranked" is but to me, it would be any private schools that charges $40K+ to go there (or will leave you north of $150K in debt). Since the prevailing wisdom is to never go in debt more than your projected first year salary, and $160K is the max first year associates are getting, taking out more than that is a bad venture and thus overrated.

Gotta factor in the actual likelihood of getting that 160 though. Paying more for a significantly better chance makes sense

[acr]

Rankings don't matter after top 20-ish. HTH.

Although I've heard some disturbing things about UPenn so be warned.

What about Penn now?

That is interesting, I am Philly area person and I haven't heard anything really bad about Penn besides the price tag and the location (University City isn't the nicest spot).

I am not sure what everyones definition of "overranked" is but to me, it would be any private schools that charges $40K+ to go there (or will leave you north of $150K in debt). Since the prevailing wisdom is to never go in debt more than your projected first year salary, and $160K is the max first year associates are getting, taking out more than that is a bad venture and thus overrated.

NY to 190

[rpupkin]

I'd say Yale is pretty overranked. Should be like 151, at the very best.

You appear to write in jest, but Yale is overranked. Just look at its pathetic big law placement—it's flirting with Fordham territory. Yale of course shouldn't be ranked 151, but I think it would be more reasonable to place it at the GULC/UT/Penn level.

[rpupkin]

penn is underrated

LOL. Penn is basically a bubble waiting to burst. Those choosing to attend Penn now are buying high. But, sadly, they will be selling low when they earn a degree from a school that is struggling to keep its head above the water. (And by "water," I mean the bottom of the T14.)

[rnoodles]

I'd say Yale is pretty overranked. Should be like 151, at the very best.

You appear to write in jest, but Yale is overranked. Just look at its pathetic big law placement—it's flirting with Fordham territory. Yale of course shouldn't be ranked 151, but I think it would be more reasonable to place it at the GULC/UT/Penn level.

Jokes aside, this is actually pretty insightful. Don't know much about placement and all, but I'm assuming most people go to Yale gunning for academia over BL so that's probably why the numbers are so low?

[rpupkin]

I'd say Yale is pretty overranked. Should be like 151, at the very best.

You appear to write in jest, but Yale is overranked. Just look at its pathetic big law placement—it's flirting with Fordham territory. Yale of course shouldn't be ranked 151, but I think it would be more reasonable to place it at the GULC/UT/Penn level.

Jokes aside, this is actually pretty insightful. Don't know much about placement and all, but I'm assuming most people go to Yale gunning for academia over BL so that's probably why the numbers are so low?

About three YLS grads per year end up in tenure-track faculty positions:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml

That's outstanding compared to all other law schools, but it doesn't account for YLS's TTT big law placement. It's just 1-2% of the class.

[rnoodles]

I'd say Yale is pretty overranked. Should be like 151, at the very best.

You appear to write in jest, but Yale is overranked. Just look at its pathetic big law placement—it's flirting with Fordham territory. Yale of course shouldn't be ranked 151, but I think it would be more reasonable to place it at the GULC/UT/Penn level.

Jokes aside, this is actually pretty insightful. Don't know much about placement and all, but I'm assuming most people go to Yale gunning for academia over BL so that's probably why the numbers are so low?

About three YLS grads per year end up in tenure-track faculty positions:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml

That's outstanding compared to all other law schools, but it doesn't account for YLS's TTT big law placement. It's just 1-2% of the class.

Considering the next closest (Harvard) was almost half that of Yale's, that is pretty damn outstanding. Even still I cant think of a better reason outside of academia or clerking that would account for Yale not even making the top 10 for BL placement. I would've thought even median at Yale could swing BL fairly easily, absent self-selection not to enter BL at all to begin with.

[radient]

penn is underrated

LOL. Penn is basically a bubble waiting to burst. Those choosing to attend Penn now are buying high. But, sadly, they will be selling low when they earn a degree from a school that is struggling to keep its head above the water. (And by "water," I mean the bottom of the T14.)

I'll bite. Which schools should be ranked differently? Haha. TX to t14?

[jrc223]

why do people always fall for this

[rpupkin]

penn is underrated

LOL. Penn is basically a bubble waiting to burst. Those choosing to attend Penn now are buying high. But, sadly, they will be selling low when they earn a degree from a school that is struggling to keep its head above the water. (And by "water," I mean the bottom of the T14.)

I'll bite. Which schools should be ranked differently? Haha. TX to t14?

I did not say that Penn will—or deserves to—fall out of the T14. Penn is a fine school that clearly belongs among the top 15 or so law schools in the nation. After an overdue market correction, Penn will settle in comfortably with the Cornells and GULCs of the world. Penn will be the sludgy (but still vaguely prestigious) sediment at the bottom of the T14 coffee cup.

[reasonable_man]

So if Op is interested in schools like Uwash, Brooklyn and Carschmozo... It can safely be assumed that the discussion of T14 schools is as applicable to his/her concerns as the ranking of PhD programs in applied Math.

Op - every law school you are thinking about attending - and I mean this - every single one, is drastically overrated.

[Clearly]

To anyone who doesn't follow these fora, this anti Penn shtick has become a favorite hobby of these few posters, but isn't actually founded in anything at all. Penn is miles ahead of the schools ranked below it and will continue to have strong placement and frankly be a great spot to study law for decades to come.

Resume trolling.

[rpupkin]

To anyone who doesn't follow these fora, this anti Penn shtick has become a favorite hobby of these few posters, but isn't actually founded in anything at all. Penn is miles ahead of the schools ranked below it and will continue to have strong placement and frankly be a great spot to study law for decades to come.

This is dumb and precisely why it's so fun to troll Penn. Why are Penn students so obsessed with separating themselves from "the schools ranked below"? It's pathetic.

[hlsperson123]

I'd say Yale is pretty overranked. Should be like 151, at the very best.

You appear to write in jest, but Yale is overranked. Just look at its pathetic big law placement—it's flirting with Fordham territory. Yale of course shouldn't be ranked 151, but I think it would be more reasonable to place it at the GULC/UT/Penn level.

Jokes aside, this is actually pretty insightful. Don't know much about placement and all, but I'm assuming most people go to Yale gunning for academia over BL so that's probably why the numbers are so low?

About three YLS grads per year end up in tenure-track faculty positions:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml

That's outstanding compared to all other law schools, but it doesn't account for YLS's TTT big law placement. It's just 1-2% of the class.

So it's not often that one gets to correct rpupkin but the value shown for each school is not the number of students that become tenure track faculty from a school per year, but the total tenured and tenure track faculty in the US who graduated from a given school divided by the class size of that school. In other words, Yale's 3.5 score means they can fill 3.5 law school classes with current law profs who graduated from there. That number alone can't tell us the number of academics YLS produces per year, but if we assume the average law prof works for 40 years then we get about 18 academics produced from YLS per year. Which is pretty high at almost 10% of the class but then again it is Yale. HLS by comparison produces 25 per year which works out to roughly 5% of the class.

[rpupkin]

I'd say Yale is pretty overranked. Should be like 151, at the very best.

You appear to write in jest, but Yale is overranked. Just look at its pathetic big law placement—it's flirting with Fordham territory. Yale of course shouldn't be ranked 151, but I think it would be more reasonable to place it at the GULC/UT/Penn level.

Jokes aside, this is actually pretty insightful. Don't know much about placement and all, but I'm assuming most people go to Yale gunning for academia over BL so that's probably why the numbers are so low?

About three YLS grads per year end up in tenure-track faculty positions:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2009 ... hing.shtml

That's outstanding compared to all other law schools, but it doesn't account for YLS's TTT big law placement. It's just 1-2% of the class.

So it's not often that one gets to correct rpupkin but the value shown for each school is not the number of students that become tenure track faculty from a school per year, but the total tenured and tenure track faculty in the US who graduated from a given school divided by the class size of that school. In other words, Yale's 3.5 score means they can fill 3.5 law school classes with current law profs who graduated from there. That number alone can't tell us the number of academics YLS produces per year, but if we assume the average law prof works for 40 years then we get about 18 academics produced from YLS per year. Which is pretty high at almost 10% of the class but then again it is Yale. HLS by comparison produces 25 per year which works out to roughly 5% of the class.

This is correct. Hey y'all, please don't take what I'm posting in this thread seriously. (Except for the last post about the ridiculous "Penn is miles ahead of the schools ranked below" comment—I meant that.) As for YLS, its relatively low big law placement is due entirely to self selection. Academia is part of it (though most grads who are aspiring academics get captured in the clerkship stats). But there are also plenty of YLS grads who choose PI, government, and careers completely outside the law.

[Clearly]

To anyone who doesn't follow these fora, this anti Penn shtick has become a favorite hobby of these few posters, but isn't actually founded in anything at all. Penn is miles ahead of the schools ranked below it and will continue to have strong placement and frankly be a great spot to study law for decades to come.

This is dumb and precisely why it's so fun to troll Penn. Why are Penn students so obsessed with separating themselves from "the schools ranked below"? It's pathetic.

Oh I'm not, at least not out of the context of a thread insisting we should be ranked lower. I think the rankings are pretty much solid the way they are, with pretty marginal differences separating them. When someone insists Penn should be ranked with GULC, I'm going to disagree, because both from an inputs and outputs perspective Penn deserves to be ranked where it is. But you don't get to attack a school and then pretend its dumb when people defend it, especially if you're going to suggest those people run around behaving that way absent your provocation. I do think its problematic when people pick a school to troll and risk convincing applicants to rule out an excellent school based on someones boredom and attempt to incite some school-war bullshit. It's the same reason I've bitched at people bashing Cornell or Mich.

If you want a well-founded rankings mix up story, I'd be curious to see what UVA could do if it didn't maintain 40% of its enrollment from Virginia. The fact that they can maintain that standard and be ranked in the mid-t14 at all is insane.

[rpupkin]

To anyone who doesn't follow these fora, this anti Penn shtick has become a favorite hobby of these few posters, but isn't actually founded in anything at all. Penn is miles ahead of the schools ranked below it and will continue to have strong placement and frankly be a great spot to study law for decades to come.

This is dumb and precisely why it's so fun to troll Penn. Why are Penn students so obsessed with separating themselves from "the schools ranked below"? It's pathetic.

Oh I'm not, at least not out of the context of a thread insisting we should be ranked lower. I think the rankings are pretty much solid the way they are, with pretty marginal differences separating them. When someone insists Penn should be ranked with GULC, I'm going to disagree, because both from an inputs and outputs perspective Penn deserves to be ranked where it is. But you don't get to attack a school and then pretend its dumb when people defend it, especially if you're going to suggest those people run around behaving that way absent your provocation. I do think its problematic when people pick a school to troll and risk convincing applicants to rule out an excellent school based on someones boredom and attempt to incite some school-war bullshit. It's the same reason I've bitched at people bashing Cornell or Mich.

If you want a well-founded rankings mix up story, I'd be curious to see what UVA could do if it didn't maintain 40% of its enrollment from Virginia. The fact that they can maintain that standard and be ranked in the mid-t14 at all is insane.

Oh, the possibilities! If UVA admitted fewer in-state students, maybe a magazine would rank it sixth instead of eighth!

Seriously, dude, you're part of the problem.

[Clearly]

Believe it or not I'm agreeing with you. Sub tiers are stupid and shouldn't be debated. Insisting Penn sucks isn't arguing against sub-tiers, its effectively saying "subtiers exist, and penn doesn't deserve to be in this one". I disagree with that. It truly doesn't matter. Frankly the only thing that determines where students end up in the T14 is where they want to practice and how much scholly money they get. Penn students aren't running around supporting sub-tiers. But if you start shitting on any school, posters are going to defend that school...

[hlsperson123]

This is correct. Hey y'all, please don't take what I'm posting in this thread seriously. (Except for the last post about the ridiculous "Penn is miles ahead of the schools ranked below" comment—I meant that.) As for YLS, its relatively low big law placement is due entirely to self selection. Academia is part of it (though most grads who are aspiring academics get captured in the clerkship stats). But there are also plenty of YLS grads who choose PI, government, and careers completely outside the law.

Sorry if I took your post too seriously, now I feel guilty for making you break character! Sometimes it's hard to tell, but I suppose that's what makes it fun. Anyway, keep up the good work!

[hlsperson123]

Believe it or not I'm agreeing with you. Sub tiers are stupid and shouldn't be debated. Insisting Penn sucks isn't arguing against sub-tiers, its effectively saying "subtiers exist, and penn doesn't deserve to be in this one". I disagree with that. It truly doesn't matter. Frankly the only thing that determines where students end up in the T14 is where they want to practice and how much scholly money they get. Penn students aren't running around supporting sub-tiers. But if you start shitting on any school, posters are going to defend that school...

Sounds like you were doing just that with your "miles ahead" comment.