Advice for a High School Student Forum

[cam2020]

This is for my son, who is a grade 10th student. He wants to be a lawyer. He is dual citizen (both US and Canada). He was born in US and brought up in Canada (all schooling). He wants to study law in US. As I concerned parent I have following questions:

Where should he go for his bachelor’s degree (undergrad) in Canada or US?

Are there any disadvantages to applying to American law schools with a Canadian undergrad?

What should be his major in bachelor’s degree (undergrad)?

Are there any schools which offer joint degree i.e. BA/JD after high school?

If one does an undergrad degree from top US University such as Harward, Stanfard, or Yale, then chances of getting to top law school (Top 14 ,etc) goes up, as compare to getting an undergrad from very low ranked undergrad University. Is this true?

How is the job market for lawyers in the US?

Are there any other forms especially US which we can look into to get more info?

Thanks for your help!

[lymenheimer]

This is for my son, who is a grade 10th student. He wants to be a lawyer. He is dual citizen (both US and Canada). He was born in US and brought up in Canada (all schooling). He wants to study law in US. As I concerned parent I have following questions:

Where should he go for his bachelor’s degree (undergrad) in Canada or US?

Are there any disadvantages to applying to American law schools with a Canadian undergrad?

What should be his major in bachelor’s degree (undergrad)?

Are there any schools which offer joint degree i.e. BA/JD after high school?

If one does an undergrad degree from top US University such as Harward, Stanfard, or Yale, then chances of getting to top law school (Top 14 ,etc) goes up, as compare to getting an undergrad from very low ranked undergrad University. Is this true?

How is the job market for lawyers in the US?

Are there any other forms especially US which we can look into to get more info?

Thanks for your help!

I'm thinking blackhawk...Anybody got bets on apache?

Let your son be a kid. Tell him to pick a major that he wants to do, thinks he will enjoy, and can get a job right out of undergrad. Get a 4.0 and worry about law school later. If you don't want to do that, then read more on this forum. Just because you're a parent doesn't mean you're going to get slack for not using the search function. In fact, parents often get more shit than students themselves. hth.

[Sweetneers]

This is for my son, who is a grade 10th student. He wants to be a lawyer. He is dual citizen (both US and Canada). He was born in US and brought up in Canada (all schooling). He wants to study law in US. As I concerned parent I have following questions:

1) Where should he go for his bachelor’s degree (undergrad) in Canada or US?

2) Are there any disadvantages to applying to American law schools with a Canadian undergrad?

3) What should be his major in bachelor’s degree (undergrad)?

4) Are there any schools which offer joint degree i.e. BA/JD after high school?

5) If one does an undergrad degree from top US University such as Harward, Stanfard, or Yale, then chances of getting to top law school (Top 14 ,etc) goes up, as compare to getting an undergrad from very low ranked undergrad University. Is this true?

6) How is the job market for lawyers in the US?

7) Are there any other forms especially US which we can look into to get more info?

Thanks for your help!

While I don't think you should pressure your son into any of this, just to answer your questions (which I have numbered above):

1) I would probably say the US is going to be the better option if he wants to go to a US law school. Similarly, if he wants to go to a Canadian law school, a Canadian UG is the better choice.

2) I can't really speak to this. I'd use the search function of this forum to look for people who have gone through it. (It's in the top right)

3) Major does not matter to any law school. Any major that he enjoys and can get a 4.0 in is acceptable.

4) There are a few that offer a 3+3 (6 year BA+JD program). I would suggest against this. These programs are not only stressful, but require summer work, which means you can't do clearkships or internships during law school summers, which is going to make finding employment extremely hard. I would also recommend against any 2-year JD programs.

5) No. A 4.0 at an unknown university is the same as a 4.0 from Harvard in most cases.

6) not great.

7) this is a great forum for information.

[ihenry]

Just an advice or to stress the point, please don't (eta: advise your son to) go to Podunk U to study basket weaving because college and major per se don't matter to law school admissions. Just don't.

[lymenheimer]

While the posters above are essentially correct, please don't (eta: advise your son to) go to Podunk U to study basket weaving because college and major per se don't matter to law school admissions. Just don't.

Just to clarify - was why my response was as follows:

Tell him to pick a major that he wants to do, thinks he will enjoy, and can get a job right out of undergrad. Get a 4.0 and worry about law school later.

[ihenry]

While the posters above are essentially correct, please don't (eta: advise your son to) go to Podunk U to study basket weaving because college and major per se don't matter to law school admissions. Just don't.

Just to clarify - was why my response was as follows:

Tell him to pick a major that he wants to do, thinks he will enjoy, and can get a job right out of undergrad. Get a 4.0 and worry about law school later.

I probably should have said the poster above

[jrass]

The internet and the like are reactive rather than proactive when it comes to the legal economy, and even in the worst period for lawyers in 2009 was still largely seeing things like they were in 2007. If you read the forum you'll notice that attitudes started becoming much more pessimistic in 2011 when things started to turn around. How things are for your son in 10 years will depend on how things are with the general economy, because the large firms and even legal aid are dependent on economic health, the former because big law firms need big companies to take part in major transactions and the latter because the amount of government aid funneled into public interest work fluctuates depending on how much money is available.

I also second everyone else's analysis on the importance of letting your child focus on the present and choose their career way later. You really can't know what your son's strengths and weaknesses are yet because his brain is still developing so he'll likely be very different at 21 than he is at 15. Not to get too neuroscientificey, but his prefrontal cortex is still in its early stages of development, and he still has to develop a strong sense of identity before he can truly commit himself to any profession. In addition, he'd likely be more successful in law if he becomes good at something else as most lawyers don't study any law till law school, and any lawyer who talks too much about law is not going to be very well liked. I also think that given how much work is involved both in law school and in practice relative to other occupations, any reinforcement you give him to be a lawyer beyond supporting it because it's what he wants can be counterproductive. Stanford did a study involving children and finger paint, and demonstrated fairly conclusively that we're hardwired to dislike things we do because we're forced to and that we stop enjoying anything we're paid to do. I'm mentioning this because this study and others like it suggest that your son may be happier in law if he feels it was all his idea.

Lastly, it's likely your son's assessment of what lawyers actually do is based mostly on fictional depictions that only depict the most exciting moments of this fictional lawyer's career. Law & Order only shows McCoy's cases that go to the appellate court or involve a lot of emotions. They skip over all the days he sits behind his desk reading 1000s of pages of documents and negotiating plea deals on DWI's and petty theft.

[lymenheimer]

I probably should have said the poster above

Really just wanted to ensure the OP saw that portion doubly-time.

[cbbinnyc]

10th grade might not be too early to "think" you want to be a lawyer, but it's almost certainly too early to plan your life around becoming a lawyer. Your son should probably be focusing on what he wants to study in college as opposed to how to best position himself for law school. He should go to the best undergrad he can, get the best grades he can, and study something that interests him, while still being able to maintain a social life and extra-curriculars. Perhaps he could better optimize his chances for Harvard Law (or wherever) by not doing extracurriculars, choosing a university because he will have an easier time getting a 4.0, and so on, but there's more to life (not to mention the unpredictability of life: what if he finds that he has a different interest in a few years, what if he messes up and can't go to law school because of a C&F issue, etc etc).

Also, I don't know whether it's true that a 4.0 at Greenville Community College is the same as a 4.0 at Harvard in law school admissions, but obviously there are advantages to going to a top undergrad that go beyond your law school admissions prospects (especially if law school doesn't pan out for whatever reason).

The one legit concern here may be whether to study in the US or Canada for undergrad. I have no idea about this so I defer to the previous posters or any future posters with actual experience with/knowledge on this topic.

[jrass]

10th grade might not be too early to "think" you want to be a lawyer, but it's almost certainly too early to plan your life around becoming a lawyer. Your son should probably be focusing on what he wants to study in college as opposed to how to best position himself for law school. He should go to the best undergrad he can, get the best grades he can, and study something that interests him, while still being able to maintain a social life and extra-curriculars. Perhaps he could better optimize his chances for Harvard Law (or wherever) by not doing extracurriculars, choosing a university because he will have an easier time getting a 4.0, and so on, but there's more to life (not to mention the unpredictability of life: what if he finds that he has a different interest in a few years, what if he messes up and can't go to law school because of a C&F issue, etc etc).

Also, I don't know whether it's true that a 4.0 at Greenville Community College is the same as a 4.0 at Harvard in law school admissions, but obviously there are advantages to going to a top undergrad that go beyond your law school admissions prospects (especially if law school doesn't pan out for whatever reason).

The one legit concern here may be whether to study in the US or Canada for undergrad. I have no idea about this so I defer to the previous posters or any future posters with actual experience with/knowledge on this topic.

It's not. The argument that it is is predicated on the assumption that all admissions cares about are USNews rankings, which aren't as big a factor as they were 5 years ago because most applicants now know they aren't necessarily indicative of employment prospects. Also, most people tend to view prestige based on their social circle, and not a list they read online. I think, especially at top law schools, a lot of the focus on numbers is really about ensuring a competitive curve and the reliance on numbers is largely a byproduct of having too little information about applicants.

In addition, #'s are predictive of bar passage rates, particularly when you're discussing applicants on the high and low end of the curve. The correlation here is strong enough that the ABA is hesitant to discredit schools with too many sub-150 students, because they know they struggle to get even half of grads to pass the bar. Even looking at the passage rates from the past couple years you have to conclude that either the test got harder or the test takers are weaker, and the test hasn't gotten harder.

[CrossRoads]

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[tflan19]

No one else concerned about the spelling of "Harward, Stanfard, or Yale"? Y'all are getting soft...

[lymenheimer]

No one else concerned about the spelling of "Harward, Stanfard, or Yale"? Y'all are getting soft...

Yale is spelled correctly... Are we thinking DF alt? I mean, I was gonna guess flame, but I really wanted to gripe at a parent for being a shitty parent.

[tflan19]

No one else concerned about the spelling of "Harward, Stanfard, or Yale"? Y'all are getting soft...

Yale is spelled correctly... Are we thinking DF alt? I mean, I was gonna guess flame, but I really wanted to gripe at a parent for being a shitty parent.

Yeah, I'm guessing one of the usual suspects... and they just couldn't think of any possible mispelling of Yale that was believable.

[totesTheGoat]

I'm guessing that a stereotypical Canadian misspelling would be "Yehle"