C&F Error Forum

[griffin_123]

I was recently accepted into my dream school, but upon review I realized that I made a major error in my character and fitness section. I wrote about being disciplined freshman year (I am a 5th year senior in a 5 year double major program) for underage drinking, but forgot about being disciplined for a fake ID as well. This was an honest mistake and one I only noticed after looking at my disciplinary record. My school requires a college certification letter and I have no idea what to do. I assume informing my school at this point once the offer has been made will result in revocation, no?

[landshoes]

Maybe not. Contact them by phone ASAP and explain.

[Wingtip88]

You don't have much of a choice - call and explain and do whatever they tell you to do. This probably won't be much of an issue; after all, people convicted of grown up crimes have made it into law schools.

[Good Guy Gaud]

You should be fine so long as you disclose it as soon as possible. I had a similar issue (but with mine, I forgot to mention it until I had almost graduated law school) and didn't even get held up in C&F.

[landshoes]

Also, it's key to do this over the phone. You can easily write something dumb in an email and they have to then include it in your C&F file. So you want to avoid putting things in writing without knowing exactly what you're writing down and how it is likely to affect the C&F process.

[griffin_123]

OK, I guess I will call them tomorrow once my nerves settle a bit. Would you recommend calling the other schools where my applications are still under review to tell them now, and what effect will it have?

[Wingtip88]

Probably only really matters to discuss this with the school you plan on attending.

[landshoes]

You should let every school you might possibly end up attending know ASAP.

[landshoes]

Probably only really matters to discuss this with the school you plan on attending.

...unless they change their plans, or their admission is withdrawn (I doubt it will be, but you never know).

[Good Guy Gaud]

You should let every school you might possibly end up attending know ASAP.

+1.


I don't think disclosing it is going make any real impact on your admissions cycle.

[jrass]

Also, it's key to do this over the phone. You can easily write something dumb in an email and they have to then include it in your C&F file. So you want to avoid putting things in writing without knowing exactly what you're writing down and how it is likely to affect the C&F process.

If I were advising a client, I'd recommend doing this and also sending an e-mail referencing the phone call so that you have hard evidence the disclosure took place without having your addendum scrutinized later on.

[UCDAVISSTUDENT]

Don't call them! On Day 1 after you show up, go into the Dean's office and explain.

[lymenheimer]

Don't call them! On Day 1 after you show up, go into the Dean's office and explain.

If you decide to do this, you may want to delete your OP. It is very incriminating evidence if they discover this account and you may have Bar issues since you knew about the error well before day 1, but idk anything about the bar's processes so maybe not.

[landshoes]

I really don't know the benefit that would come from waiting to disclose something until you're there in person. I would suggest that it's better to disclose now for two reasons.

One, it's very important to avoid giving the impression that you're trying to game the admissions/C&F process by withholding negative information. Waiting until you're at law school in person seems to only benefit you if it makes it harder for the school to act on the negative information. So, this strategy would seem to only work because it's deceptive. Using strategic deception is not the best way to approach a C&F issue that will come to light eventually anyway.

Two, there is a substantial benefit to you by disclosing ASAP. You will know where you stand with all of the schools you're applying to, which is extremely valuable. You will also be able to relax and know that your admission is secure. Who on earth would want to risk getting to school, only to have their admission rescinded? It's a small risk, but I would be stressed about it, and starting law school is stressful enough.

[landshoes]

Also I just realized that you have to get the dean's certificate or whatever anyway. There's literally no upside to you waiting to disclose.

[Mr. Archer]

Don't call them! On Day 1 after you show up, go into the Dean's office and explain.

Yeah, that sounds like a great way to introduce yourself to the Dean.

[UCDAVISSTUDENT]

At most law schools, the Dean of Student Affairs gives a speech on the first day and invites anyone who didn't disclose anything to come see them. The advantage of waiting is that OP is unlikely to get their offer of admission revoked by their dream school after the first day. I really don't think it happens. The school is counting on your money at that point and you disclosed the underlying offense already.

Other posters are right that you need to delete this thread. Not sure if your certification letter would contain a list of disciplinary transgressions, doesn't this usually just say that you are enrolled and in good standing?

[Mr. Archer]

At most law schools, the Dean of Student Affairs gives a speech on the first day and invites anyone who didn't disclose anything to come see them. The advantage of waiting is that OP is unlikely to get their offer of admission revoked by their dream school after the first day. I really don't think it happens. The school is counting on your money at that point and you disclosed the underlying offense already.

Other posters are right that you need to delete this thread. Not sure if your certification letter would contain a list of disciplinary transgressions, doesn't this usually just say that you are enrolled and in good standing?

By "at most law schools", I think you mean your school and maybe another school you heard about doing that. I don't remember a Dean at my law school giving that speech. You're advising someone to delete evidence of knowing about a non-disclosure and then to wait around 9 months to reveal it at the last minute and hopefully put the school in a situation where it can't revoke. It's a good thing you'll have to take an ethics/professional responsibility course in law school.

I don't think there's a high likelihood OP will get revoked (considering OP was disciplined for something minor and it's not like OP didn't disclose any disciplinary transgressions). However, arguing the school wouldn't revoke because it's "counting" on OP's money is weak. Schools still admit people during orientation (my school let in 3 my 1L year), so OP's money could easily be replaced. The advantage of disclosing now is that 1) OP looks honest instead of possibly looking dishonest by waiting and 2) OP will get an answer sooner rather than later.

[jrass]

At most law schools, the Dean of Student Affairs gives a speech on the first day and invites anyone who didn't disclose anything to come see them. The advantage of waiting is that OP is unlikely to get their offer of admission revoked by their dream school after the first day. I really don't think it happens. The school is counting on your money at that point and you disclosed the underlying offense already.

Other posters are right that you need to delete this thread. Not sure if your certification letter would contain a list of disciplinary transgressions, doesn't this usually just say that you are enrolled and in good standing?

By "at most law schools", I think you mean your school and maybe another school you heard about doing that. I don't remember a Dean at my law school giving that speech. You're advising someone to delete evidence of knowing about a non-disclosure and then to wait around 9 months to reveal it at the last minute and hopefully put the school in a situation where it can't revoke. It's a good thing you'll have to take an ethics/professional responsibility course in law school.

I don't think there's a high likelihood OP will get revoked (considering OP was disciplined for something minor and it's not like OP didn't disclose any disciplinary transgressions). However, arguing the school wouldn't revoke because it's "counting" on OP's money is weak. Schools still admit people during orientation (my school let in 3 my 1L year), so OP's money could easily be replaced. The advantage of disclosing now is that 1) OP looks honest instead of possibly looking dishonest by waiting and 2) OP will get an answer sooner rather than later.

Yeah, it's not like you're speaking about for profit schools that only focus on the bottom line. The top law schools are at colleges that are huge institutions with their own branding, millions in alumni donations coming in each year, etc. If universities like Stanford and Duke could be sold on the open market like an NBA team, they'd command billions of dollars. There's no way they will compromise their principles for a few hundred grand. It's much likelier that they'll either not care and/or have sympathy for OP once they know him, and go easy.

[UCDAVISSTUDENT]

At most law schools, the Dean of Student Affairs gives a speech on the first day and invites anyone who didn't disclose anything to come see them. The advantage of waiting is that OP is unlikely to get their offer of admission revoked by their dream school after the first day. I really don't think it happens. The school is counting on your money at that point and you disclosed the underlying offense already.

Other posters are right that you need to delete this thread. Not sure if your certification letter would contain a list of disciplinary transgressions, doesn't this usually just say that you are enrolled and in good standing?

By "at most law schools", I think you mean your school and maybe another school you heard about doing that. I don't remember a Dean at my law school giving that speech. You're advising someone to delete evidence of knowing about a non-disclosure and then to wait around 9 months to reveal it at the last minute and hopefully put the school in a situation where it can't revoke. It's a good thing you'll have to take an ethics/professional responsibility course in law school.

I don't think there's a high likelihood OP will get revoked (considering OP was disciplined for something minor and it's not like OP didn't disclose any disciplinary transgressions). However, arguing the school wouldn't revoke because it's "counting" on OP's money is weak. Schools still admit people during orientation (my school let in 3 my 1L year), so OP's money could easily be replaced. The advantage of disclosing now is that 1) OP looks honest instead of possibly looking dishonest by waiting and 2) OP will get an answer sooner rather than later.

Above was based on advice given to my fiancee by a popular LS consulting service. She was applying everywhere in the t14. I realize it is unconventional advice, which is why I posted it. OP should consider getting a list of questions together and spending an hour on a consultation.

[Clearly]

At most law schools, the Dean of Student Affairs gives a speech on the first day and invites anyone who didn't disclose anything to come see them. The advantage of waiting is that OP is unlikely to get their offer of admission revoked by their dream school after the first day. I really don't think it happens. The school is counting on your money at that point and you disclosed the underlying offense already.

Other posters are right that you need to delete this thread. Not sure if your certification letter would contain a list of disciplinary transgressions, doesn't this usually just say that you are enrolled and in good standing?

By "at most law schools", I think you mean your school and maybe another school you heard about doing that. I don't remember a Dean at my law school giving that speech. You're advising someone to delete evidence of knowing about a non-disclosure and then to wait around 9 months to reveal it at the last minute and hopefully put the school in a situation where it can't revoke. It's a good thing you'll have to take an ethics/professional responsibility course in law school.

I don't think there's a high likelihood OP will get revoked (considering OP was disciplined for something minor and it's not like OP didn't disclose any disciplinary transgressions). However, arguing the school wouldn't revoke because it's "counting" on OP's money is weak. Schools still admit people during orientation (my school let in 3 my 1L year), so OP's money could easily be replaced. The advantage of disclosing now is that 1) OP looks honest instead of possibly looking dishonest by waiting and 2) OP will get an answer sooner rather than later.

Above was based on advice given to my fiancee by a popular LS consulting service. She was applying everywhere in the t14. I realize it is unconventional advice, which is why I posted it. OP should consider getting a list of questions together and spending an hour on a consultation.

You should hesitate to provide advice that could lead to people failing the bar.

[UCDAVISSTUDENT]

At most law schools, the Dean of Student Affairs gives a speech on the first day and invites anyone who didn't disclose anything to come see them. The advantage of waiting is that OP is unlikely to get their offer of admission revoked by their dream school after the first day. I really don't think it happens. The school is counting on your money at that point and you disclosed the underlying offense already.

Other posters are right that you need to delete this thread. Not sure if your certification letter would contain a list of disciplinary transgressions, doesn't this usually just say that you are enrolled and in good standing?

By "at most law schools", I think you mean your school and maybe another school you heard about doing that. I don't remember a Dean at my law school giving that speech. You're advising someone to delete evidence of knowing about a non-disclosure and then to wait around 9 months to reveal it at the last minute and hopefully put the school in a situation where it can't revoke. It's a good thing you'll have to take an ethics/professional responsibility course in law school.

I don't think there's a high likelihood OP will get revoked (considering OP was disciplined for something minor and it's not like OP didn't disclose any disciplinary transgressions). However, arguing the school wouldn't revoke because it's "counting" on OP's money is weak. Schools still admit people during orientation (my school let in 3 my 1L year), so OP's money could easily be replaced. The advantage of disclosing now is that 1) OP looks honest instead of possibly looking dishonest by waiting and 2) OP will get an answer sooner rather than later.

Above was based on advice given to my fiancee by a popular LS consulting service. She was applying everywhere in the t14. I realize it is unconventional advice, which is why I posted it. OP should consider getting a list of questions together and spending an hour on a consultation.

You should hesitate to provide advice that could lead to people failing the bar.

Not sure how amending your application after an offer of admission, whether done before the first day of class or on it, could impact your performance on the bar. But I might have skipped that day of PR.

[RCSOB657]

Own up to it asap. It isn't huge, not even big. Doing anything other than that shows you actually do have a C&F problem even if no one finds out.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not sure how amending your application after an offer of admission, whether done before the first day of class or on it, could impact your performance on the bar. But I might have skipped that day of PR.

Don't be obtuse.

The "go on the first day" is really silly. If the issue is serious enough to lead a school to consider rescinding an acceptance, it won't matter whether the student is already there or not. It's not like the C&F portion of the bar committee will care whether the admission was before/after matriculating. I doubt this is serious enough to make any difference, but it's better to find out now rather than once you've moved/started school/etc.

[BVest]

Also, it's key to do this over the phone. You can easily write something dumb in an email and they have to then include it in your C&F file. So you want to avoid putting things in writing without knowing exactly what you're writing down and how it is likely to affect the C&F process.

You need a writing. When you disclose it to the bar, they'll want to know why you didn't disclose it in your application. Telling them "well I did, but by phone" isn't exactly going to make the process easier. I can't speak for all states, obviously, but Texas is like this and California is REALLY like this.