Should I give up on T6? Forum

[divergence]

First time poster.
I'm an international student whose heart is set on going to law school.
I'm currently a third year student at a Canadian university and my CGPA is a little over 3.7.

Here's the problem though. I failed 3 courses in my first semester due to some family-related issue (a long story). On top of that, two semester after, I failed one of the failed courses again. So technically, I have 4 F's.

My understanding is that American law schools take every undergrad course into consideration including the repeated ones. Other than the 4 F's and a couple of C-'s that I got in my first couple of semesters, I have been maintaining a term gpa of 3.9-4.0 for the past 2 years. Provided that I keep up this way, I think I can manage to pull my CGPA up to 3.9 or even close to 4.0 (with repeats, that is). However, if I include the 4 F's into the equation, my GPA plummets to 3.5ish. Because my goal is to get into t6 law school, a 3.5 GPA seems hopeless.

Although I do take full responsibility for what I did, I must admit that I do feel very frustrated. Going to law school has always been my dream and that's why I decided to return to univ after a 6 year break from school (I'm currently 27 and married).

So here are my questions:

1) Should I write an addendum in this case? If law school accepts my addendum, does that mean they will overlook my F's for admission?

2) My school policies state that where a student repeats a course, the course will be recorded on official records as an excluded course. Since it's going to be recorded on official records albeit as an excluded course, that means the LSAC will still use that course to calculate my CGPA, right? In other words, I shouldn't have false hopes that somehow the courses with the lower grades will not be included in my CGPA calculation, right?

3) What should I do? Should I give up on T6 or even T14?

4) I still have a year and a half until I graduate, what would you say I do to maximize my chance of getting into t6 law school?


Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated..

[Mack.Hambleton]

Try to get it retroactively removed from transcript

how is a 3.5 bad, you can get full rides to T14s with a 3.5

[divergence]

Try to get it retroactively removed from transcript

how is a 3.5 bad, you can get full rides to T14s with a 3.5

I've tried appying for a WE but the school told me they couldn't process my application because the courses I failed were taken more than 5 years ago. Like I said, I took a 6 year break from school.

I honestly didn't know I could get a full ride to t14s with a 3.5 (I'm guessing that's conditional upon a stellar LSAT score, say, a 175?)

Do you think I should write an addendum? at least for the first semester in which I failed 3 courses?

[Clearly]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

[totesTheGoat]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

[Clemenceau]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I can't imagine a job that is foreclosed to lower t14 grads but open to ccn grads. Never really understood why people are so hot on the distinction.

Disclaimer: I go to a lowly non-t6 t14

[divergence]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I want to practice law for up to 5 years in the states and I plan to go back to my home country and become a politician. In fact, that's my ultimate goal and that's why I was sort of obsessed about going to a T6 law school (I come from a country where school prestige is highly valued).

[BigZuck]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I want to practice law for up to 5 years in the states and I plan to go back to my home country and become a politician. In fact, that's my ultimate goal and that's why I was sort of obsessed about going to a T6 law school (I come from a country where school prestige is highly valued).

If you're only considering prestigious schools then I would focus on the T5. It's hard to wash the NYU stench off of you if you go down that route.

[Hand]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I want to practice law for up to 5 years in the states and I plan to go back to my home country and become a politician. In fact, that's my ultimate goal and that's why I was sort of obsessed about going to a T6 law school (I come from a country where school prestige is highly valued).

If you're only considering prestigious schools then I would focus on the T5. It's hard to wash the NYU stench off of you if you go down that route.

If you're looking for the sort of prestige that opens doors in foreign countries, you really should be going to Harvard. People where I come from couldn't tell Yale apart from Georgetown.

[BigZuck]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I want to practice law for up to 5 years in the states and I plan to go back to my home country and become a politician. In fact, that's my ultimate goal and that's why I was sort of obsessed about going to a T6 law school (I come from a country where school prestige is highly valued).

If you're only considering prestigious schools then I would focus on the T5. It's hard to wash the NYU stench off of you if you go down that route.

If you're looking for the sort of prestige that opens doors in foreign countries, you really should be going to Harvard. People where I come from couldn't tell Yale apart from Georgetown.

Even in this country NYU is a 3rd rate state school AT BEST

[Hand]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I want to practice law for up to 5 years in the states and I plan to go back to my home country and become a politician. In fact, that's my ultimate goal and that's why I was sort of obsessed about going to a T6 law school (I come from a country where school prestige is highly valued).

If you're only considering prestigious schools then I would focus on the T5. It's hard to wash the NYU stench off of you if you go down that route.

If you're looking for the sort of prestige that opens doors in foreign countries, you really should be going to Harvard. People where I come from couldn't tell Yale apart from Georgetown.

Even in this country NYU is a 3rd rate state school AT BEST

True true

[divergence]

I think you should focus on the lsat.

Agreed. At least know that you need to panic before you start panicking. Also, what do you plan on doing with your law degree that you need a T6 school? I'm not saying you should give up on T6, but perhaps a T-14 would be fine for your plans.

I want to practice law for up to 5 years in the states and I plan to go back to my home country and become a politician. In fact, that's my ultimate goal and that's why I was sort of obsessed about going to a T6 law school (I come from a country where school prestige is highly valued).

If you're only considering prestigious schools then I would focus on the T5. It's hard to wash the NYU stench off of you if you go down that route.

If you're looking for the sort of prestige that opens doors in foreign countries, you really should be going to Harvard. People where I come from couldn't tell Yale apart from Georgetown.

Even in this country NYU is a 3rd rate state school AT BEST

True true

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

[cbbinnyc]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

[LetsGoNow]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

[Clearly]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

Yup internationally nyu isn't a thing

[divergence]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

[divergence]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

Yup internationally nyu isn't a thing

What about within the U.S. legal field? Are you suggesting that NYU law school doesn't deserve a T6 spot? I'm just curious.

[Clearly]

lol wat.

NYU is an awesome school, with awesome job placement. I'm just saying it doesn't have the international cachet that other slightly lower ranked schools do in certain oversees markets.

[LetsGoNow]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

Yup internationally nyu isn't a thing

What about within the U.S. legal field? Are you suggesting that NYU law school doesn't deserve a T6 spot? I'm just curious.

No, absolutely not. NYU law school deserves to be T6. OP initially mentioned wanting prestige in his home country, which is where NYU does not match up to the other T6, and honestly to just about every other T14. As far as the U.S. legal aficionados are concerned, NYU law is right up there with the best of em.

[divergence]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

Yup internationally nyu isn't a thing

What about within the U.S. legal field? Are you suggesting that NYU law school doesn't deserve a T6 spot? I'm just curious.

No, absolutely not. NYU law school deserves to be T6. OP initially mentioned wanting prestige in his home country, which is where NYU does not match up to the other T6, and honestly to just about every other T14. As far as the U.S. legal aficionados are concerned, NYU law is right up there with the best of em.

ohh I see, reading comprehension fail on my part

[Hikikomorist]

.

[ihenry]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

I'm a little skeptical of this one.

He/she is right, at least in many places. I might consider Penn over NYU, for example, for international prestige's sake. NY biglaw is one thing, overseas "branding" is another.

[dabigchina]

inb4 this devolves into a spat over lay prestige

(if that is what you are after you might want to take chicago off the list)

[ihenry]

inb4 this devolves into a spat over lay prestige

(if that is what you are after you might want to take chicago off the list)

I mean, yeah, but good or bad, lay (I interpret it as "outside American elite legal circle") prestige more or less matters, especially given that, almost everywhere in the world, there are not that many ways to demonstrate your capabilities as a newcomer the legal field apart from school branding. Granted, this "prestige" thing is all relative -- here on TLS Stanford is probably a cooler choice than Harvard for good reasons, but to other people you must be out of your mind to give up Harvard, this "#1 school" in America. But in the end, depending on your actual career goals and preferences, this might have to be taken into consideration.

[jbagelboy]

I don't know why my comments aren't being posted, but let me give it another try.
Just out of curiosity, what's wrong with NYU? Obviously I've never been to the states and I've always thought NYU was a great school, and it's a T6 school after all, isn't it? Could you enlighten me on that?

I assume (hope) they are being somewhat ironic. All of the T6, including NYU, have essentially identical employment outlooks, the main advantage of HYS being that you have a much better shot at a federal clerkship or academia and probably have a wider choice of employment options in general. Frankly, pretty much any T14 has a good employment outlook. HYS also give a bit more freedom geographically. NYU does lack the Ivy League pedigree, not sure how much that matters ... though if you're talking about prestige outside of the US it could make a difference, I suppose. The layperson probably doesn't think of Columbia and NYU in the same category, even though their law schools offer virtually identical outcomes.

I'm pretty sure they mean it when they say NYU should be out of the list if international prestige is the criteria. It's got nothing to do with the law school's employment numbers. It's more to do with the university's overall prestige. The ivy league distinction may explain some cases, but really, NYU is simply not considered by many to be a top-tier university, even among non-ivy schools. For example, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, and UMich are non-ivy schools, but any of them would serve the purpose of "prestige" better than NYU outside of the U.S. legal field.

Yup internationally nyu isn't a thing

Don't want to hark on this too long, but this isn't true (both literally, they have campuses abroad, and in terms of this esoteric 'prestige'). I mean, I've never attended NYU, but it's very well regarded internationally (both for law and non-law) and its faculty is on par with most other elite private institutions. The undergraduate quality at NYU is generally lower than schools like Duke, Cornell, Johns Hopkins, ect. The graduate schools -- including the law school and stern, but especially the graduate programs in the humanities -- are well-known internationally as top tier (although not quite the likes of Princeton or Stanford). Remember, international recognition often has more to do with the institution's research and less to do with TLS myopic impressions student quality (which is why some of the most 'elite' US colleges that are among the most selective with high achieving students, such as Williams, Pomona, or Swarthmore, are very poorly known outside the US). Any international survey averaged over several years can confirm.