. Forum

[R. Jeeves]

.

[smaug]

If you like where you're at I'd be wary to leave. Obviously you'd make more money while in biglaw, but you'd probably end up with a lower salary in your second gig, one that might be obtainable in your current field.

The other big question is that you have nothing in your post about really wanting to be a lawyer: the type of work wouldn't be the same, and you might like it significantly less. The reason to go to law school is because you know you want to be a lawyer, not because you think you can make a decent cash grab as a biglaw associate for a few years.

I wouldn't move. I don't know if MBAs are common in your field, but that's something to consider with time. Law isn't really going anywhere, though, and I don't think that a few years in Biglaw really justifies leaving a solid gig that with potential for growth.

[R. Jeeves]

.

[totesTheGoat]

What usually happens to people after Biglaw? They go inhouse or to smaller firms I guess? How much do they make at these places (on average)?

One of a few things happens.
They make partner (relatively rare), in which case money is not a concern because you will be making enough and working enough that you won't have enough free time to enjoy all the money you make.
They lateral around BigLaw for a while (relatively common), which is a lot of work, but you can creep up the pay scale a little faster than just staying put.
They stay put and hope for an of-counsel position (I dont know much about this option, except that it's rare).
They go in-house (competition for in-house jobs is fierce), which is less work at somewhat less pay, but without the "partner payout" potential (unless you hit it big and become a GC).
They go to smaller firms (which pay less, but can still pay well).
They hang their own shingle (just like any other startup: high risk, high amount of work, payoff potential is astronomical if you take off).

yeah idk. I feel that I would like studying law in school, but I know that a lot people end up disliking Biglaw despite thinking that its where they want to be when they go in. Im just going to assume that its not going to be that great. Yeah for a few years its not worth it, but if I knew that I could end up with considerably more money overall in the longterm I'd be tempted.

There are a lot of different routes you can take in law school that can still pay well. There are significantly more routes in law school that end up with a $50k job and massive debt (i'm not sure if your full ride covers living expenses... i doubt it does). It sounds like you may be patent bar eligible, which opens up a bunch of non-BigLaw $150k+ jobs if you can keep your grades out of the gutter.

Much of your experience will revolve around your personality.
Are you a workaholic? Most people who like BigLaw don't mind putting in 60-100 hours a week when necessary. Depending on the practice area and the firm, you could average 80 a week for months at a time.
Are you a spontaneous person? BigLaw litigation (and lit in general) means that you're never going to be able to plan a vacation 2 months in advance ever again.
Do you like living in the city? Most BigLaw jobs are the downtown of a major metropolis.
Do you like nice things? It seems like a funny question, but if you like driving your Ford F-150 and wearing jeans, you may be out of place when the other attorneys think that a BMW is a crap car and khakis are too casual for casual Friday.

[BaiAilian2013]

I know you said you weren't just looking at money, but I have to really emphasize it anyway. From someone who likes biglaw: law is probably not worth the money if the money is why you're in it. You have to really want to be a lawyer. If you don't affirmatively want to be a lawyer and not what you are now, stop crunching the numbers and forget law school, free ride or no.

[R. Jeeves]

.

[R. Jeeves]

.

[totesTheGoat]

I just figured that "liking Biglaw" means being able to tolerate the hours, appreciating the money, and enjoying the social atmosphere in the way totesTheGoat alluded to with these questions:

I don't want to give the impression that "liking BigLaw" means tolerating being forced into a stressful work environment. The BigLaw attorneys I work with are all very passionate about what they do. They love the challenge of trying to beat somebody else, of trying to craft the perfect argument. To some of them, BigLaw is like spending 8-12 hours a day playing strategy games.

If you're able to derive enjoyment from your work like that, the more power to you. I wish I was wired that way. Alas, I'm not, and so I just turned down 2 BigLaw SAs to try something a bit different.

Whether or not you're a workaholic who enjoys work, you do sacrifice in the lifestyle department. For some, that's not a big deal. For me, I would burn out very quickly. I need my down time, I need my open spaces, I need my sleep.

What it came down to for me, and what it will likely come down to for you is whether you are happier or less happy after spending 10-12 hours at work. For me, I'd rather take a pay cut and work 40-50 hours a week. Maybe you're the kind of person who will relish having your work churning in your head 24/7, because your brain is wired such that it always has to be chewing on something.

yeah im patent bar eligible. what sort of jobs would these be?

Certain IP boutiques offer $160k starting. There are (somewhat rare) in-house jobs in the same salary ballpark. Mid-sized GPs with an IP group are offering $125-150k starting. The only firms in the IP realm that aren't offering BigLaw competitive salaries are the small boutiques and small GPs.

[lymenheimer]

"RE: To what extent can I anal..." is all that shows on the main forum page when this is the last posted thread in this subforum...modz plz

[dabigchina]

this might sound a bit harsh, but if you have a full ride at a T14, and you are patent bar eligible, and you still need TLS to talk you into going to law school then you might not really want to be a lawyer.

[Hornet2011]

I have to admit that I am struggling with a somewhat similar issue, you can see my post here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 5&t=254235

That being said, I do think being well over four years removed from undergrad and seeing how things have worked out for my friends and I that I might be able to offer some useful insight.

As you rightly stated, money should not be the only consideration. It is without a doubt a significant factor, and your 20k in outstanding student debt combined with what could be 50k or more of cost of student living debt is certainly a concern. Frankly, with a full ride to a T10 you are in a great position and with only having to take out loans possibly for COL, which can be somewhat offset by working in the summer. I would recommend paying down as much of the 20k outstanding though this year if at all possible and are considering law school. However, trying to figure out what will pay you out the most cash long term (and I mean long term more than 5 years) is next to impossible. Your federally funded facility could get defunded. You could find an amazing promotion somewhere else. In two year from now you could be making 100k, get married, get divorced in another two, and lose half. I will try to find a more informative source, as I know the same topic has appeared in the NYTimes and WSJ in the past, but here is a free article (http://www.cheatsheet.com/personal-fina ... ?a=viewall) which pretty much shows that aggregate happiness doesn't increase much about 80k or so a year. So congrats, your probably going to be just fine as long as you don't take on too much debt or my main point....

Are not fulfilled with what you do. While I have no doubt that big law sucks for a good majority of people and that some enjoy it, I can attest that after reading TLS a lot for 8ish months there is some sort of perception that the grass is greener on the other side in corporate America, or government work, or whatever. The fact of the matter is it all really sorta sucks unless you are, and I hate this word, "passionate" about what you do. I have friends who are medical residents pulling 80+ hours a week on nights and sure they complain, but they genuinely love what they do. Another friend is a neuro scientist and spends literally 60+ hours a week just doing MRIs on kids. To me that sounds miserable. She loves it. On the other hand pretty much name a profession and I can find you somebody who isn't happy with what they are doing for one reason or another. All jobs have a lot of not cool parts to them, the difference is, and this is what I call passion, is that the non enjoyable parts are become fun or bearable because they lead up to what you really enjoy doing. Just like nobody really enjoys soccer practice for example, people get pumped to go to it because they love the game.

To circle back to your question of "how to know if I will enjoy being a lawyer?". The honest answer is you won't know. There is serious uncertainty there and it is unsettling for a bright, analytical person to see all the risks and have to base a key decision on something they knowingly can't be sure of. Knowing that, I supposed the next best thing to consider, since you'll probably make above 75k the rest of your life, do you think law school and being a lawyer will increase your aggregate happiness? It's hard to say, but I find that being a much more manageable question. It may get easier with having some time out of school as well. What I've learned, and why I continue to lean heavily towards going back to law school, is I truly believe that even though I am a content person today, being a lawyer and doing that on a daily basis would increase my aggregate happiness. And even if I am mistaken, I believe I will be much happier knowing that I tried and gave it a shot than having to live my life knowing I didn't pursue something that I truly thought I was passionate about.

That's just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.