Importance of internships? Forum

[ilikebaseball]

So I was thinking today about some people at a big law firm in Dallas. They have interns (that I'm told they frequently end up hiring) from OU, Houston, and even one from LSU, besides all the UT and SMU ones. So, is it very well possible that the best way to get a job at a lower ranked-lower cost school would be to work really hard to get an internship after 1L year, and then working very hard the next two summers at that firm? If you could go to a school, I'm over exaggerating here, but say Tx A&M, and you worked your ass off to get an internship at a BL, couldn't you just work extremely hard for that firm in order to almost assure yourself of a job? I'm just asking for curiosity sake. It just seems like almost a neccesity for people who don't go to a T1 law school, no?

[Tanicius]

So I was thinking today about some people at a big law firm in Dallas. They have interns (that I'm told they frequently end up hiring) from OU, Houston, and even one from LSU, besides all the UT and SMU ones. So, is it very well possible that the best way to get a job at a lower ranked-lower cost school would be to work really hard to get an internship after 1L year, and then working very hard the next two summers at that firm? If you could go to a school, I'm over exaggerating here, but say Tx A&M, and you worked your ass off to get an internship at a BL, couldn't you just work extremely hard for that firm in order to almost assure yourself of a job? I'm just asking for curiosity sake. It just seems like almost a neccesity for people who don't go to a T1 law school, no?

They probably had top grades. As in, top 5 kids in their class, to crack Dallas Biglaw.

[ilikebaseball]

So I was thinking today about some people at a big law firm in Dallas. They have interns (that I'm told they frequently end up hiring) from OU, Houston, and even one from LSU, besides all the UT and SMU ones. So, is it very well possible that the best way to get a job at a lower ranked-lower cost school would be to work really hard to get an internship after 1L year, and then working very hard the next two summers at that firm? If you could go to a school, I'm over exaggerating here, but say Tx A&M, and you worked your ass off to get an internship at a BL, couldn't you just work extremely hard for that firm in order to almost assure yourself of a job? I'm just asking for curiosity sake. It just seems like almost a neccesity for people who don't go to a T1 law school, no?

They probably had top grades. As in, top 5 kids in their class, to crack Dallas Biglaw.

So you couldn't ask a specific college to help you get an internship at one of these firms unless you're a big time student? They won't give you that opportunity?

[Tanicius]

So I was thinking today about some people at a big law firm in Dallas. They have interns (that I'm told they frequently end up hiring) from OU, Houston, and even one from LSU, besides all the UT and SMU ones. So, is it very well possible that the best way to get a job at a lower ranked-lower cost school would be to work really hard to get an internship after 1L year, and then working very hard the next two summers at that firm? If you could go to a school, I'm over exaggerating here, but say Tx A&M, and you worked your ass off to get an internship at a BL, couldn't you just work extremely hard for that firm in order to almost assure yourself of a job? I'm just asking for curiosity sake. It just seems like almost a neccesity for people who don't go to a T1 law school, no?

They probably had top grades. As in, top 5 kids in their class, to crack Dallas Biglaw.

So you couldn't ask a specific college to help you get an internship at one of these firms unless you're a big time student? They won't give you that opportunity?

Oh, I thought you meant law school summer interns. No idea if college interns have success going to a low-tier law school later and using their paralegal internship connections to get a job there.

[ilikebaseball]

No what I'm asking is, if I'm a decent student at a T2 law school. Let's say top 1/3rd somewhere, and I went up to my law school and asked them to find me a summer internship at a BL in the area, they wouldn't do it because my grades aren't high enough?

[Tanicius]

No what I'm asking is, if I'm a decent student at a T2 law school. Let's say top 1/3rd somewhere, and I went up to my law school and asked them to find me a summer internship at a BL in the area, they wouldn't do it because my grades aren't high enough?

That's not how it works. You interview for firms. Schools don't secure the internships for their students. Generally, Dallas biglaw takes from UT, T-14s, and a select few of the very top students at the other TX law schools.

[A. Nony Mouse]

So I was thinking today about some people at a big law firm in Dallas. They have interns (that I'm told they frequently end up hiring) from OU, Houston, and even one from LSU, besides all the UT and SMU ones. So, is it very well possible that the best way to get a job at a lower ranked-lower cost school would be to work really hard to get an internship after 1L year, and then working very hard the next two summers at that firm? If you could go to a school, I'm over exaggerating here, but say Tx A&M, and you worked your ass off to get an internship at a BL, couldn't you just work extremely hard for that firm in order to almost assure yourself of a job? I'm just asking for curiosity sake. It just seems like almost a neccesity for people who don't go to a T1 law school, no?

They probably had top grades. As in, top 5 kids in their class, to crack Dallas Biglaw.

So you couldn't ask a specific college to help you get an internship at one of these firms unless you're a big time student? They won't give you that opportunity?

Schools can't magically create summer jobs at firms (and you're talking about jobs, not internships). The firms hire who they want to hire and the schools don't have any control over it. Schools may arrange for firms to come interview on campus, but even firms that interview on campus aren't required to hire anyone from that school (and in the context you're describing, yes, they'd only hire the very top kids in the class).

[ilikebaseball]

No what I'm asking is, if I'm a decent student at a T2 law school. Let's say top 1/3rd somewhere, and I went up to my law school and asked them to find me a summer internship at a BL in the area, they wouldn't do it because my grades aren't high enough?

That's not how it works. You interview for firms. Schools don't secure the internships for their students.

Oh okay, I was told that the schools are the ones that set it up. So law firms will really only give this opportunity out to the top students in the class? Or have you heard of cases where a good interview leads an average student at an average law school to a really good internship?

[ilikebaseball]

So I was thinking today about some people at a big law firm in Dallas. They have interns (that I'm told they frequently end up hiring) from OU, Houston, and even one from LSU, besides all the UT and SMU ones. So, is it very well possible that the best way to get a job at a lower ranked-lower cost school would be to work really hard to get an internship after 1L year, and then working very hard the next two summers at that firm? If you could go to a school, I'm over exaggerating here, but say Tx A&M, and you worked your ass off to get an internship at a BL, couldn't you just work extremely hard for that firm in order to almost assure yourself of a job? I'm just asking for curiosity sake. It just seems like almost a neccesity for people who don't go to a T1 law school, no?

They probably had top grades. As in, top 5 kids in their class, to crack Dallas Biglaw.

So you couldn't ask a specific college to help you get an internship at one of these firms unless you're a big time student? They won't give you that opportunity?

Schools can't magically create summer jobs at firms (and you're talking about jobs, not internships). The firms hire who they want to hire and the schools don't have any control over it. Schools may arrange for firms to come interview on campus, but even firms that interview on campus aren't required to hire anyone from that school (and in the context you're describing, yes, they'd only hire the very top kids in the class).

FWIW, I'm not talking about jobs, I'm just talking about summer internships. I figured that, similar to undergraduate school, that law schools could help set up internships at law firms where they had connections. But I guess I figured wrong!

[A. Nony Mouse]

No what I'm asking is, if I'm a decent student at a T2 law school. Let's say top 1/3rd somewhere, and I went up to my law school and asked them to find me a summer internship at a BL in the area, they wouldn't do it because my grades aren't high enough?

That's not how it works. You interview for firms. Schools don't secure the internships for their students.

Oh okay, I was told that the schools are the ones that set it up. So law firms will really only give this opportunity out to the top students in the class? Or have you heard of cases where a good interview leads an average student at an average law school to a really good internship?

The issue is that at schools like UH and SMU (and certainly A&M), interviews are pre-select - that is, people submit their resumes and the firms choose who they interview. (T14 schools usually have lottery interviews based on bidding for interview slots, and the firms interview who the school presents to them, basically.) So at lower-ranked schools, a firm doesn't have to even agree to interview you until they've seen your resume with your GPA. If your GPA isn't high enough, they won't interview you. (Even at the lottery schools, I believe they see your GPA after the screener/initial interview, and can cut you then based on grades, though for T14 students firms will go much deeper in the class than at TTs and TTTs.)

Also, you're talking about jobs. Law students don't intern at law firms. It's just a different system from undergrad.

[ilikebaseball]

No what I'm asking is, if I'm a decent student at a T2 law school. Let's say top 1/3rd somewhere, and I went up to my law school and asked them to find me a summer internship at a BL in the area, they wouldn't do it because my grades aren't high enough?

That's not how it works. You interview for firms. Schools don't secure the internships for their students.

Oh okay, I was told that the schools are the ones that set it up. So law firms will really only give this opportunity out to the top students in the class? Or have you heard of cases where a good interview leads an average student at an average law school to a really good internship?

The issue is that at schools like UH and SMU (and certainly A&M), interviews are pre-select - that is, people submit their resumes and the firms choose who they interview. (T14 schools usually have lottery interviews based on bidding for interview slots, and the firms interview who the school presents to them, basically.) So at lower-ranked schools, a firm doesn't have to even agree to interview you until they've seen your resume with your GPA. If your GPA isn't high enough, they won't interview you. (Even at the lottery schools, I believe they see your GPA after the screener/initial interview, and can cut you then based on grades, though for T14 students firms will go much deeper in the class than at TTs and TTTs.)

Also, you're talking about jobs. Law students don't intern at law firms. It's just a different system from undergrad.

That's strange. I was just talking to my grandfather (big time lawyer at a BL in Dallas) and he said "there are several interns that sometimes sit in at meetings, or do research for the law firm. We frequently hire from our interns provided they do the job correctly like we ask and show enough work ethic to be able to handle the pressure up here." I asked him where the interns are from and he said "Mainly SMU, but there are a few from UT, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and even Houston. I'll talk to them to see how they landed the internship because I'm not really sure how the whole process works."

[Lavitz]

Are you sure he wasn't just referring to summer associates as interns?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Was he talking about actual undergrads? Because undergrads will intern at law firms, sure. Basically, law students working at firms over the summer are generally called summer associates (at big law firms, where the firm will offer its summer associates offers of permanent employment for after graduation) or law clerks (usually at smaller firms where there's not an expectation that it will turn into permanent post-grad employment, though people also get hired as law clerks for during the school year).

I mean, your grandfather's firm may call law students interns, I can't say they don't, but it's not the standard use of the term. If you're talking about big law summer jobs, you're usually talking about summer associate positions.

[ilikebaseball]

No he specifically said "paid interns" and was referring to students in the middle of law school

[ilikebaseball]

idk if thats simply what they call them at his law firm and if they actually are associates. But he specifically said they completed their first or second year of law school, and were helping the firm do research while sitting on a few meetings to get a feel for how they are conducted.

[Attax]

Yeah those are summer associates, regardless of what you call them.

And to your original question though, my friend is top 10 at Texas A&M and isn't getting paid over the summer for his work. I know anecdote, but the odds are against you at those schools.

[NorCalLaw]

Some firms will take additional "interns"/" externs"/"law clerks" on top of their true summer associate count. Those individuals may be unpaid or paid at a much lower rate. They are essentially second-class SAs and my understanding is that they only rarely receive offers. These positions are not through the usual OCI screener/callback system.