Scientists and Engineers: Why Law? Forum

[bropulous]

I know it's fairly common for people with science or engineering backgrounds to make the switch to law. I'm currently considering going the other (apparently less common) way: I just finished law school, and while I enjoyed it quite a bit, I'm not sure this is what I want to do for the rest of my life and have started thinking some sort of science or engineering career might be a better choice for me.

This is just a vague idea at this point, and I don't even have a specific field in mind. But if you went from science or engineering to law, I'd be really interested to know why. Was it just a desire for more job stability and greater pay? Or were there other reasons too?

[ditch digger]

I was thinking about doing the same thing, OP. But then I realize that I absolutely hate academia and do not want to spend several more years pursuing another degree.

[Crowing]

There was no way in hell I was going to continue and do a PhD. I absolutely loathe academia.

[bropulous]

There was no way in hell I was going to continue and do a PhD. I absolutely loathe academia.

I figured that might be one reason. I generally like school, although I have to admit I'm a little less enthusiastic about the prospect of being a student again in my 30s if I do pursue this route.

[Attax]

There was no way in hell I was going to continue and do a PhD. I absolutely loathe academia.

This. After spending 3 years during undergrad doing research I was not putting myself through that for the rest of my life. I don't mind being a solitary person, but when I'm so solitary my best friends are becoming the bacteria I work with, no thanks.

That plus the politics and shitness of academia/scientific research made me leave very quickly.

[09042014]

I left cause I'm an idiot.

But don't do "science." It's just as flame as liberal arts is.

Do engineering or computer science.

[mx23250]

xxx

[rayiner]

I'm too much of an asshole for engineering. Don't play video games. Didn't like only working with dudes.

[ManoftheHour]

I left cause I'm an idiot.

But don't do "science." It's just as flame as liberal arts is.

[Leo]

I am switching from engineering to law with 4 years experience in industry. I realized that I was getting pigeon-holed and would likely end up as one of those guys stuck in middle management at the same company for 40 years. So instead of making a lateral move, which is difficult to do without taking a pay cut, I decided to go back to school. I considered B school but remembered I really dislike people who blabber about synergy all day and don't actually work. Considering, on the other hand, the shortage of patent attorneys and their outstanding compensation, law school seemed like the obvious choice.

All that being said, not sure I would go the reverse route. Engineering school is pretty damn hard, and it'll take you another 4 years (maybe 3 if you're really ambitious). After all that, a good outcome is a 5 figure job. That is, unless you decide to go into academia (have fun with that). You could also try to get an associates (2-yr) degree instead of a bachelors, but then you're really talking about no money, like <50k/yr. I can't imagine trying to service law school loans and engineering school loans on that salary.

[Hipster but Athletic]

I work with a ton of Ph.D's in a program in which I help them commercialize their inventions. Very few seem too interested in continuing on in the companies we will help them to establish around their technologies, let alone "science" in general. A few of these guys who get more chatty after a few drinks ask me about law --they're keenly aware of their marketability in IP, their earnings potential, the ability to promote social justice or facilitate technology proliferation on a wider scale. These fellows almost invariably have 3.9+ UPGAs and as such, I encourage them to study hard for the LSAT and work as paras or Examiners before committing to law school. I also encourage them to get full rides. This seems to me to be a truly smart career path, and much better than working as a third-rate data analyst at a med company that doesn't know your name.

[collegebum1989]

One of the major reasons I left engineering for law is because of the environment around co-workers. In my experience, people from technical backgrounds tend to be less social and more introverted. This makes it insanely difficult to work in certain fields.

Another reason is that engineers tend to be laid back because their jobs are laid back. Engineering fields tend to attract easy-going, risk-averse individuals who would be happy with consistent, repetitive work. This means that while engineers start off with excellent career trajectories, their opportunity to advance within their fields saturates very quickly. The most successful engineers don't remain engineers throughout their careers; they use their technical expertise to move into business development and/or management.

Even if you go into industry and move up, it's not nearly as lucrative as going into patent law.

[mx23250]

I work with a ton of Ph.D's in a program in which I help them commercialize their inventions. Very few seem too interested in continuing on in the companies we will help them to establish around their technologies, let alone "science" in general. A few of these guys who get more chatty after a few drinks ask me about law --they're keenly aware of their marketability in IP, their earnings potential, the ability to promote social justice or facilitate technology proliferation on a wider scale. These fellows almost invariably have 3.9+ UPGAs and as such, I encourage them to study hard for the LSAT and work as paras or Examiners before committing to law school. I also encourage them to get full rides. This seems to me to be a truly smart career path, and much better than working as a third-rate data analyst at a med company that doesn't know your name.

ccc

[Hipster but Athletic]

No, fuck those dudes

[bropulous]

Very interesting. I've heard all of these things almost word for word from people I've asked about this in person. Although for me personally, the less social environment seems like an advantage of science or engineering, but I can see how it would be frustrating for many people.

[alkaseltzer]

One of the major reasons I left engineering for law is because of the environment around co-workers. In my experience, people from technical backgrounds tend to be less social and more introverted. This makes it insanely difficult to work in certain fields.

This is exactly why I left engineering. Personally, I think the really high salaries in patent law are possible because of the supply-demand curve. What makes patent law stable is the natural "selection". IMO It's very different from med/dental/healthcare programs. These healthcare programs intentionally restrict the number of admitted students so doctors can earn $$ due to supply-demand. Patent law, on the other hand doesn't really need this restriction. Its supply is naturally restricted. If you are a solid engineer, chances are you are likely to be introverted. If you are introverted, chances are you won't like law / business. Also, don't forget many of these engineers are international students, without native English tongue which makes it difficult for them to break into law.

[09042014]

Well you guys are going to love lawyers.

[bropulous]

This is exactly why I left engineering. Personally, I think the really high salaries in patent law are possible because of the supply-demand curve. What makes patent law stable is the natural "selection". IMO It's very different from med/dental/healthcare programs. These healthcare programs intentionally restrict the number of admitted students so doctors can earn $$ due to supply-demand. Patent law, on the other hand doesn't really need this restriction. Its supply is naturally restricted. If you are a solid engineer, chances are you are likely to be introverted. If you are introverted, chances are you won't like law / business. Also, don't forget many of these engineers are international students, without native English tongue which makes it difficult for them to break into law.

That makes a lot of sense. It certainly explains why patent lawyers are in demand. Of course, part of the reason for the salaries is the weird stickiness of legal wages. It's not obvious why patent lawyers should be paid the same $160k that litigators make in biglaw, but many firms are so wedded to the lockstep model that I can't imagine it's likely to change anytime soon.

I think this Above the Law post shows why salaries for at least some patent lawyers would be higher if the market were functioning normally:
http://abovethelaw.com/2007/07/quinn-em ... engineers/

[alkaseltzer]

I know for a fact that some IP boutiques pay more than market for EE/CS degrees. And additionally some firms give extra "bonuses".

[yost]

I am switching from engineering to law with 4 years experience in industry. I realized that I was getting pigeon-holed and would likely end up as one of those guys stuck in middle management at the same company for 40 years. So instead of making a lateral move, which is difficult to do without taking a pay cut, I decided to go back to school. I considered B school but remembered I really dislike people who blabber about synergy all day and don't actually work. Considering, on the other hand, the shortage of patent attorneys and their outstanding compensation, law school seemed like the obvious choice.

All that being said, not sure I would go the reverse route. Engineering school is pretty damn hard, and it'll take you another 4 years (maybe 3 if you're really ambitious). After all that, a good outcome is a 5 figure job. That is, unless you decide to go into academia (have fun with that). You could also try to get an associates (2-yr) degree instead of a bachelors, but then you're really talking about no money, like <50k/yr. I can't imagine trying to service law school loans and engineering school loans on that salary.

Pretty much this. Also, most engineers with bachelor's degrees do pretty mind-numbing work. Data analysis, testing, etc. I would rather be compensated at $160K per year than $80K per year if I have to be doing mind-numbing work.

[papercut]

CS here.

Meh. I've got no real good reason.

[Spartan_Alum_12]

I am switching from engineering to law with 4 years experience in industry. I realized that I was getting pigeon-holed and would likely end up as one of those guys stuck in middle management at the same company for 40 years. So instead of making a lateral move, which is difficult to do without taking a pay cut, I decided to go back to school. I considered B school but remembered I really dislike people who blabber about synergy all day and don't actually work. Considering, on the other hand, the shortage of patent attorneys and their outstanding compensation, law school seemed like the obvious choice.

All that being said, not sure I would go the reverse route. Engineering school is pretty damn hard, and it'll take you another 4 years (maybe 3 if you're really ambitious). After all that, a good outcome is a 5 figure job. That is, unless you decide to go into academia (have fun with that). You could also try to get an associates (2-yr) degree instead of a bachelors, but then you're really talking about no money, like <50k/yr. I can't imagine trying to service law school loans and engineering school loans on that salary.

Pretty much this. Also, most engineers with bachelor's degrees do pretty mind-numbing work. Data analysis, testing, etc. I would rather be compensated at $160K per year than $80K per year if I have to be doing mind-numbing work.

This. Plus while I like learning about engineering, I'm not "hands on" and hate any type of lab work or design project. I would rather read/write/research, I'm a strange dude.

[09042014]

Engineers with bachelors degrees do whatever they can handle. You are not stuck doing bitchwork just because you got a BS. MS's are a reward for failing your PhD. Even PhD isn't necessary for much, though it's a great credential.

[bropulous]

Pretty much this. Also, most engineers with bachelor's degrees do pretty mind-numbing work. Data analysis, testing, etc. I would rather be compensated at $160K per year than $80K per year if I have to be doing mind-numbing work.

I've definitely heard this before too. I actually find legal work pretty interesting (well, at least the research and writing aspects -- big discovery projects can be pretty awful). It's other things about law that are giving me second thoughts, but I suppose the grass is always greener.

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone. This thread has confirmed a lot of what I've heard or suspected about other fields.

[84651846190]

I'm too much of an asshole for engineering. Don't play video games. Didn't like only working with dudes.

+1