Truth About Criminal Law - Can This Be Real????? Forum

[scifiguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiN7Y1ziqhs

Deeply upsetting (if you make it to the end of this video clip, be warned that it's very upsetting).

Equally enraging:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbI5HHz7fJU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aLVahVpv80 (this was unbearable for me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncczhZht-oY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeYRvxP-BRo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTzGtPdyeFI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHeygzUCRjk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jz7JRLuYJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxV7KRte9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIhb-FgKEKs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb5jk7x1x5k (seriously???)

For those who work in criminal law, how common is this type of law enforcement in the U.S.? Just watching these videos makes me feel nauseous and enraged.

[kalvano]

11 YouTube videos? Fuck off with that. Just ask what you want to know.

[Mauve.Dino]

11 YouTube videos? Fuck off with that. Just ask what you want to know.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Yes, what do you want to know? There are, in fact, a ton of crappy cops in the world, if that's what you were wondering. But mostly "Cop responsibly does job, arrests criminal" doesn't get anyone to click through to a youtube video. The problem with reporting about incidents like this is that generally from the victim's side only. The case of the man getting shot in Oklahoma, for instance - the wife only starts filming after the husband is already on the ground. We only have her word for what happened before that, which may indeed be gospel truth, but may not. (A LOT of frivolous excessive force cases get filed against the cops - including plenty where the victim may legitimately feel aggrieved, but where the cops' actions are perfectly legal.)

I'm not saying it's not tragic that the man died - it absolutely, completely is. (There are a number of cases of what's called positional asphyxia, where the police gets someone face down on the ground, hold their arms behind their back, and put pressure on their torso, say with a knee on the back; it seems fairly easy for someone to suffocate in this position, and I kind of suspect that may have happened here, although that's a total layperson guess.) The police may be completely, entirely to blame, and if so, I hope they're disciplined, procedures are improved, and the family gets restitution. (The Ethan Saylor case, in particular, sounds horrifically bad.) But it may also have been a tragic accident. I don't think we can tell from that news story.

But I mean, you can easily find 11 news stories about high school teachers (male and female) molesting their students. Does that mean that high school teaching as a profession is fundamentally flawed?

(And again: yeah, there are a lot of crappy cops in the world. There are also crappy police departments. When I worked in a judge's chambers last year, everyone in that city warned me against the police there - including the judge and his very law-abiding staff. That's never happened to me anywhere else; it's not a good sign. But I'm not sure what "truth about criminal law" this leads you to.)

[JJ123]

Completely depends on the department. Here, the City cops are fine. But go into the suburbs, and you'll get pulled over for driving while black, frivolous tickets, etc.

[mephistopheles]

dwb is a major offense

[Clyde Frog]

Yes, what do you want to know? There are, in fact, a ton of crappy cops in the world, if that's what you were wondering. But mostly "Cop responsibly does job, arrests criminal" doesn't get anyone to click through to a youtube video. The problem with reporting about incidents like this is that generally from the victim's side only. The case of the man getting shot in Oklahoma, for instance - the wife only starts filming after the husband is already on the ground. We only have her word for what happened before that, which may indeed be gospel truth, but may not. (A LOT of frivolous excessive force cases get filed against the cops - including plenty where the victim may legitimately feel aggrieved, but where the cops' actions are perfectly legal.)

I'm not saying it's not tragic that the man died - it absolutely, completely is. (There are a number of cases of what's called positional asphyxia, where the police gets someone face down on the ground, hold their arms behind their back, and put pressure on their torso, say with a knee on the back; it seems fairly easy for someone to suffocate in this position, and I kind of suspect that may have happened here, although that's a total layperson guess.) The police may be completely, entirely to blame, and if so, I hope they're disciplined, procedures are improved, and the family gets restitution. (The Ethan Saylor case, in particular, sounds horrifically bad.) But it may also have been a tragic accident. I don't think we can tell from that news story.

But I mean, you can easily find 11 news stories about high school teachers (male and female) molesting their students. Does that mean that high school teaching as a profession is fundamentally flawed?

(And again: yeah, there are a lot of crappy cops in the world. There are also crappy police departments. When I worked in a judge's chambers last year, everyone in that city warned me against the police there - including the judge and his very law-abiding staff. That's never happened to me anywhere else; it's not a good sign. But I'm not sure what "truth about criminal law" this leads you to.)

Where were these female teachers when I was in school?

[scifiguy]

11 YouTube videos? Fuck off with that. Just ask what you want to know.

lol. In case anyone was wondering, they aren't like full-length movies. haha. Short clips! Short clips! But I felt the maxim of a picture speaks a thousand words would apply here. ..... So sad these things.

[scifiguy]

dwb is a major offense

Yeah, there's no doubt that being a racial minority makes you a greater target/potential victim for this stuff (verbal abuse, excessive violence, planting of evidence, making up police report lies, unreasonable suspicion, harassment, etc.), but I noticed from watching about eight to nine hours of these clips since yesterday (just bored and curious at the same time ) that there were a large number of white victims as well.

Completely depends on the department. Here, the City cops are fine. But go into the suburbs, and you'll get pulled over for driving while black, frivolous tickets, etc.

It can depend on the officer him/herself oftentimes, because I've been treated very differently for similar traffic offenses (failing to signal, speeding...) in the same city - one officer seemed psychotic and looking to provoke me (although it took me a day or two to realize it after being in shock), while the other extremely friendly. But it does seem like some departments can have an entire culture set from above endorsing and even requesting (at the risk of losing one's job for failing to meet an arrest and citation quota) this sort of corrupt activity.

There was one long TV segment I watched online in which a former NYC cop exposed these things in his department and there were secret recordings of the police sarg./leader telling and threatening people that they had better do whatever necessary to make those quotas or else go looking for a job delivering pizzas somewhere else. If it were me, I'd quit and probably report them as well. There's no way I'm going to plant evidence on someone or make up lies, etc. and ruin someone's life just to make some quota.

I think police quotas ought to be illegal! Makes me sick. If law enforcement is practiced like this, then it is an enemy to all of society and something no one should respect.