IU-Indianapolis Receives $24M Grant - Ranking Impact? Forum

[S-IV]

http://newscenter.iupui.edu/5427/IU-Sch ... H-McKinney

"The school will be known as the Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law in recognition of the largest gift ever received by the school and one of the largest in legal education.

McKinney's gift of $24 million, along with matching funds committed through the IUPUI IMPACT fundraising campaign, will bring the total value of the gift to $31.5 million."

Thoughts?

[TommyK]

Of which, $17.5m will be dedicated to endow scholarships. Sure as hell won't hurt their ranking.

[Chants]

McKinney stated there was a string attached- the school needs to end up top 30 (no expressed time frame). I am sure that is the goal rather than an actual stipulation and it is probably a stretch; but as stated above, the gift certainly won't hurt their ranking.

[LAFish]

I think I saw that McKinney wanted the school in the top 30 within 10 years.

[Bildungsroman]

I think I saw that McKinney wanted the school in the top 30 within 10 years.

Lol. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than $30 million to get that school anywhere near the top 30.

[Chants]

I think I saw that McKinney wanted the school in the top 30 within 10 years.

Lol. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than $30 million to get that school anywhere near the top 30.

Haha I would normally agree...but I must direct you to IUB's ranking. You clearly have underestimated what $$ can do to game the rankings.

[Bildungsroman]

I think I saw that McKinney wanted the school in the top 30 within 10 years.

Lol. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than $30 million to get that school anywhere near the top 30.

Haha I would normally agree...but I must direct you to IUB's ranking. You clearly have underestimated what $$ can do to game the rankings.

We'll see if IUB can keep up its massive scholarship campaign and whether that substantially impacts its ranking (it's been around where it's at now for a few years at least). Plus, while IUB has bad employment prospects, IU-I epitomizes the absolutely shitty placement that lower T2s boast. They won't be a top 30 school because that money won't help their employment prospects and good students will still avoid it like the plague when they realize the shitlaw future that school will earn them.

[Chants]

I agree with all of the above other than the implied distinction between IUB and IUI. In all respects outside of IUB's ability to lure 167+ lsats with a full ride (hence, their ranking) they are peer schools (especially in terms of job placement). I am not saying IUI is underrated nor that this gift renders them a top 30 school, merely that I wouldn't be surprised to see them rise 20-30 spots rapidly, akin to what IUB did in 2008-2009 following a similar gift.

[ColtsFan88]

I think I saw that McKinney wanted the school in the top 30 within 10 years.

Lol. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than $30 million to get that school anywhere near the top 30.

Haha I would normally agree...but I must direct you to IUB's ranking. You clearly have underestimated what $$ can do to game the rankings.

We'll see if IUB can keep up its massive scholarship campaign and whether that substantially impacts its ranking (it's been around where it's at now for a few years at least). Plus, while IUB has bad employment prospects, IU-I epitomizes the absolutely shitty placement that lower T2s boast. They won't be a top 30 school because that money won't help their employment prospects and good students will still avoid it like the plague when they realize the shitlaw future that school will earn them.

This is just false. IU-Indy actually places pretty well for a TT in a secondary market. Also, everything other than Cali/NYC/DC biglaw is not "shitlaw". Indy is actually a fairly attractive market, and when you add in the CoL your 100k salary actually goes a lot further than 160k in NYC. I don't think you bill as many hours either...

People really hate on secondary markets on this board, lol.

EDIT: As far as IUI's ranking, I could see it getting into the 50s. But I don't really see it going much higher. Its the third best law school in the state, and as far as the Indy market is concerned, I don't think its going to overtake IUB any time soon.

[jrthor10]

I have to agree with Colts fan. IUPUI actually places extremely well in Indy and they actually usually get more hires than ND in a given year for the Big 3 firms in Indy (Ice, Baker, and Barnes). Those firms are all Vault 250 and set you up nicely. Is it Chicago, New York, DC, San Fran, LA, or Boston? No, but outside of those cities and a few others, it's a solid market.

Now, if you go to IUPUI from outside the state and hope to get something to go back home with, then clearly you are mentally ill.

[romothesavior]

This is just false. IU-Indy actually places pretty well for a TT in a secondary market. Also, everything other than Cali/NYC/DC biglaw is not "shitlaw". Indy is actually a fairly attractive market, and when you add in the CoL your 100k salary actually goes a lot further than 160k in NYC. I don't think you bill as many hours either...

People really hate on secondary markets on this board, lol

As someone with a pretty decent read on the Indy market, let me respond with a few things.

First of all, Indy (and most secondaries) is a very attractive secondary market for someone from the Midwestern region like myself. You don't have to convince me of that. But that says nothing about the ability of IU-Indy to place their students into these jobs. There are 5 firms in Indy (to my knowledge) that pay 100k+ (Ice Miller, Barnes, Baker, Bingham McHale and Taft), and maybe another 3-4 that pay 80-100k (Frost Brown, Bingham McHale, maybe krieg devault?) Between all these firms combined, there's probably no more than 40-50 entry level jobs a year paying over $80,000 in Indianapolis ITE, and even that number may be generous. Look at their NALP forms and add them up if don't believe me.

According to the website, there are 1,000 students at IU-Indy's law school, so maybe 330 a class? If we assume that every single SA job in Indianapolis goes to an IU-Indy grad, that's 10-15% of their class getting Indy biglaw. What are the rest of them doing? You can't possibly tell me that IU-Indy grads are going to respectable firms in Chicago, Columbus, St. Louis, Cincinnati, etc. in large enough numbers to make a real impact.

And of course, those 40-50 Indianapolis mid-big firm SA spots are not all being taken by IU-Indy. In fact, the vast majority are being taken by other schools. Notre Dame and IU-B are eating up a sizeable chunk of those. Even schools like WUSTL, UIUC, and tOSU are going to snag about 3-5 SA spots in Indianapolis a year. And then of course you've got T14 students from Indiana who are looking to come home. So how many big firm SAs do you think IU-Indy students are snagging? 10? 15? Maybe 20 if they're really lucky? That's out of 300+ students.

The bottom line is that Indianapolis is a very small legal market. IU-B and IU-Indy are churning out over 500 lawyers a year, and Indianapolis cannot absorb anywhere near that many people. You may want to claim that IU-Indy places well in Indianapolis, but the numbers just don't support it. I don't care how much money this school is getting in donations... it is still going to be bad for job placement for the foreseeable future, and it is probably an unwise investment if it isn't essentially free.

[kings84_wr]

We'll see if IUB can keep up its massive scholarship campaign and whether that substantially impacts its ranking (it's been around where it's at now for a few years at least).

IUB's will keep giving the massive scholarships. The $35 million donation was given for Maurer Scholarships in perpetuity.

[Samara]

Huh, interesting. Even T1 status for IU-I will be difficult, but doable I suppose. Within the next ten years though, I wouldn't be surprised to see the rankings change to weigh job placement or other things more heavily than medians, which would hurt their ability to climb the ladder. Unless Indy's legal market grows, which is possible if a lot of people do things right. Between Purdue, ND and IU, a lot of cutting-edge companies are doing business in Indiana, which should represent an opportunity for growth in the legal market.