So, how can you afford to survive while in law school? Forum

[rinkrat19]

Here's my actual monthly budget:

Rent: $600
Utilities, etc: $100
Food: $950
Clothes: $300
Miscellaneous: $25


If you plan your budget, you will be able to afford anything.

300/month in clothes? fo real?

Damn, I thought the food part was funnier.

I just thought that 'food' included a generous drinking budget.

[kwais]

1. Don't accrue 150k in non-dischargeable debt to go to law school for the small chance of being an attorney. Even if you realize the chance, your starting salary will most likely be somewhere in the 35-50k range with few if any benefits.
2. Get a job. Really almost ANY job will do.
3. Work hard at your job. Work as hard as if it was your own business. Show enthusiasm for what you do and get along with co-workers and superiors.
4. Get promoted to management. This will take anywhere from 3-5 years, depending on where you are. At this point, you will be making anywhere from 60-80k.
5. Keep working management job and enjoy middle class life, OR, save up enough funds to start your own business. Either way, life will be good.[/quote]

Lol. If only things were that easy. Try just finding a job straight out of college now, let alone being able to hold onto it for 3-5 years without getting laid off.

It's eminently doable, take retail for example. You can start as a stocker and eventually move up to store manager. Target/Wal-Mart managers make about ~70k depending on location.[/quote]

nuff said

[MTal]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

[kwais]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

indeed, but then you work at Target.

[Verity]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

So go work at Target.

[MTal]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

indeed, but then you work at Target.

It's precisely because of that prestige-whore "I'm too smart for blue collar jobs" attitude that most posters here are destined for a life of fail.

[pjo]

1. Don't accrue 150k in non-dischargeable debt to go to law school for the small chance of being an attorney. Even if you realize the chance, your starting salary will most likely be somewhere in the 35-50k range with few if any benefits.
2. Get a job. Really almost ANY job will do.
3. Work hard at your job. Work as hard as if it was your own business. Show enthusiasm for what you do and get along with co-workers and superiors.
4. Get promoted to management. This will take anywhere from 3-5 years, depending on where you are. At this point, you will be making anywhere from 60-80k.
5. Keep working management job and enjoy middle class life, OR, save up enough funds to start your own business. Either way, life will be good.[/quote]

Lol. If only things were that easy. Try just finding a job straight out of college now, let alone being able to hold onto it for 3-5 years without getting laid off.

It's eminently doable, take retail for example. You can start as a stocker and eventually move up to store manager. Target/Wal-Mart managers make about ~70k depending on location.[/quote]

Ok, so there's appx. 1724 Target stores with 1-2 managers per store. That's 1724-3448 manager positions through Target, with maybe another 500-1000 corporate positions. So what, a total of 4500 positions max. That doesn't even take into account how many of those positions are actually vacant. Also fwiw, 50% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years. Don't make this stuff sound easy, because what your advocating, although possible, is FAR from "show-up, work hard, win". I agree that many ppl go to law school for the wrong reasons and/or make poor financial decisions regarding law school. But seriously though, if starting your own business or making it in middle level management is so easy, more ppl would be doing it.

[MTal]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

So go work at Target.

The managers at my current workplace also make over 100k

[kwais]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

indeed, but then you work at Target.

It's precisely because of that prestige-whore "I'm too smart for blue collar jobs" attitude that most posters here are destined for a life of fail.

Because I'm interested in something a little more intellectually stimulating that retail, I'm a prestige-whore? lol. you live a sad life bro.

[pjo]

nuff said

Read it and weep bro. Target managers make between 100-140k. Here:

--LinkRemoved--

So go work at Target.

The managers at my current workplace also make over 100k

Well if that's the case why don't you just become a manager there then? I mean, all you have to do is work hard for 3-5 years and poof, you're golden...right?

[MTal]

Ok, so there's appx. 1724 Target stores with 1-2 managers per store. That's 1724-3448 manager positions through Target, with maybe another 500-1000 corporate positions. So what, a total of 4500 positions max. That doesn't even take into account how many of those positions are actually vacant. Also fwiw, 50% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years. Don't make this stuff sound easy, because what your advocating, although possible, is FAR from "show-up, work hard, win". I agree that many ppl go to law school for the wrong reasons and/or make poor financial decisions regarding law school. But seriously though, if starting your own business or making it in middle level management is so easy, more ppl would be doing it.

Never said it was easy, but there's way WAY more probability of success than dumping 150k for a worthless piece of paper. Don't forget, if you follow this route, you will not only be skipping the crushing debt, but you will also get ACTUAL experience doing things that other people find useful. So after 10 years, even if you don't make manager, you will still have solid experience, plus a nice chunk of money saved up...how does law school even compare with that? Also you focused on target, but notice in my original post I said ANY job. Being a manager or district manager for almost any company will all but guarantee you a solid middle class life.

[MTal]

Well if that's the case why don't you just become a manager there then? I mean, all you have to do is work hard for 3-5 years and poof, you're golden...right?

I've only been there about a 1.5 years. It may still be in the cards. Also, I am good at sales, so I can make an equal amount doing that as well.

[MTal]

Because I'm interested in something a little more intellectually stimulating that retail, I'm a prestige-whore? lol. you live a sad life bro.

You think the practice of law is intellectual? LOL, law is a BUSINESS. 90 % of mostl legal work is nothing more than proofreading, double checking, rubber stamping, i dotting and t crossing BULLSHIT. Just ask any Doc reviewer, personal injury, or real estate attorney how much "intellect" is involved in their day to day affairs. The primary job of any attorney is to generate BUSINESS via getting more clients. If you can't get clients then you are worthless, no matter how many rules and regs you can remember off the top of your head. Managing people, on the other hand, requires a high degree of intellect via coaching, motivating, and general people skills. I will put a district manager's intellect up against a run of the mill shitlaw attorney any day of the week.

[Bildungsroman]

"Just work hard at Target for 3-5 years and they'll make you a manager?" MTal, for someone who likes to play up being older and more mature with extensive life experience, you are hilariously naive.

Also, all you motherfuckers need to learn how to use the quote function.

[kwais]

Because I'm interested in something a little more intellectually stimulating that retail, I'm a prestige-whore? lol. you live a sad life bro.

You think the practice of law is intellectual? LOL, law is a BUSINESS. 90 % of mostl legal work is nothing more than proofreading, double checking, rubber stamping, i dotting and t crossing BULLSHIT. Just ask any Doc reviewer, personal injury, or real estate attorney how much "intellect" is involved in their day to day affairs. The primary job of any attorney is to generate BUSINESS via getting more clients. If you can't get clients then you are worthless, no matter how many rules and regs you can remember off the top of your head. Managing people, on the other hand, requires a high degree of intellect via coaching, motivating, and general people skills. I will put a district manager's intellect up against a run of the mill shitlaw attorney any day of the week.

hmmm. am I going to get my impression of the law from the whiny drop out who must believe in doom and gloom to support his decision to leave law or that of my many family members who practice law for many decades and enjoy/enjoyed it? this is tough.

[sunynp]

FYI - to the OP -I have found that mint.com is helpful with budgeting. I still spend more on food then i need to because I waste stuff or i get lazy and don't want to cook. Anyone have any good links with tips for just buying and cooking for one person? I'm not good with making chili and eating it every night. I guess i can learn to do that if I that is the best thing. I am trying to save money now.

Also, I thought that loans in the summer meant you get less during the year? At least my undergrad was that way, if you went in the summer they divided up your financial aid into three semesters but the total was the same. I didn't have loans in law school nor did I attend in the summer.

[pjo]

Well if that's the case why don't you just become a manager there then? I mean, all you have to do is work hard for 3-5 years and poof, you're golden...right?

I've only been there about a 1.5 years. It may still be in the cards. Also, I am good at sales, so I can make an equal amount doing that as well.

Great. But many/most ppl graduating right now have not been as lucky as you. The economy only created 25,000 jobs in May and 18,000 jobs in June. The economy needs to grow at 150,000 jobs/month just to keep even with population growth. Ppl graduating in the past 2 years have had lower starting salaries on average than grads in similiar jobs a decade earlier. This in turn will negatively affect their overall compensation potential for a large amount of grads. Furthermore, relatively speaking, the demographic hurt most during the recession was middle age white males in mid-level management jobs. Their unemployment rate wasn't nearly the worst; however, it was double what it had been in previous recessions. Many of those men are still trying to find jobs in their old mid-level type management positions. Companies will most likely hire those type of laid off lateral hires due to their experience before they will promote someone with no management experience.

NONE of this should be taken as a strong argument for attending law school, especially for someone who would be attending for the wrong reasons or on false pretenses of a guaranteed road to financial success. I'm just saying that for ppl graduating right now, I don't see any "sure thing" in regard to long time gainful employment.

[pjo]

Because I'm interested in something a little more intellectually stimulating that retail, I'm a prestige-whore? lol. you live a sad life bro.

You think the practice of law is intellectual? LOL, law is a BUSINESS. 90 % of mostl legal work is nothing more than proofreading, double checking, rubber stamping, i dotting and t crossing BULLSHIT. Just ask any Doc reviewer, personal injury, or real estate attorney how much "intellect" is involved in their day to day affairs. The primary job of any attorney is to generate BUSINESS via getting more clients. If you can't get clients then you are worthless, no matter how many rules and regs you can remember off the top of your head. Managing people, on the other hand, requires a high degree of intellect via coaching, motivating, and general people skills. I will put a district manager's intellect up against a run of the mill shitlaw attorney any day of the week.

For every menial legal job there is a menial counterpart in management. Maybe not an even split, but if you think every job in management is intellectually stimulating, you're sadly mistaken. Really every profession has it's sophisticated aspects and it's menial/repetitive aspects. It just depends where you fall on the scale. Some engineers are involved in really interesting projects; others (many of whom I've spoken with) hate their jobs because of the complete lack of substance and innovation. Same with accountants, teachers, nurses etc. It just sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder in regard to the legal practice.

[MTal]

Because I'm interested in something a little more intellectually stimulating that retail, I'm a prestige-whore? lol. you live a sad life bro.

You think the practice of law is intellectual? LOL, law is a BUSINESS. 90 % of mostl legal work is nothing more than proofreading, double checking, rubber stamping, i dotting and t crossing BULLSHIT. Just ask any Doc reviewer, personal injury, or real estate attorney how much "intellect" is involved in their day to day affairs. The primary job of any attorney is to generate BUSINESS via getting more clients. If you can't get clients then you are worthless, no matter how many rules and regs you can remember off the top of your head. Managing people, on the other hand, requires a high degree of intellect via coaching, motivating, and general people skills. I will put a district manager's intellect up against a run of the mill shitlaw attorney any day of the week.

For every menial legal job there is a menial counterpart in management. Maybe not an even split, but if you think every job in management is intellectually stimulating, you're sadly mistaken. Really every profession has it's sophisticated aspects and it's menial/repetitive aspects. It just depends where you fall on the scale. Some engineers are involved in really interesting projects; others (many of whom I've spoken with) hate their jobs because of the complete lack of substance and innovation. Same with accountants, teachers, nurses etc. It just sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder in regard to the legal practice.

I agree all professions have their menial aspects, but law is the worst of the worst. Most attorneys hate their jobs, high rates of of alcoholism/substance abuse/divorces abound. As for your previous post, all the negatives going on with the economy currently are accentuated by gong to law school Law has more graduates than it has jobs, more out of work experienced attorneys competing for those jobs, and a projected long term decline of the demand for the actual types of services lawyers provide.

[theavrock]

FYI - to the OP -I have found that mint.com is helpful with budgeting. I still spend more on food then i need to because I waste stuff or i get lazy and don't want to cook. Anyone have any good links with tips for just buying and cooking for one person? I'm not good with making chili and eating it every night. I guess i can learn to do that if I that is the best thing. I am trying to save money now.

Also, I thought that loans in the summer meant you get less during the year? At least my undergrad was that way, if you went in the summer they divided up your financial aid into three semesters but the total was the same. I didn't have loans in law school nor did I attend in the summer.

http://video.adultswim.com/tim-and-eric ... brule.html

[rinkrat19]

I still spend more on food then i need to because I waste stuff or i get lazy and don't want to cook. Anyone have any good links with tips for just buying and cooking for one person? I'm not good with making chili and eating it every night. I guess i can learn to do that if I that is the best thing. I am trying to save money now.

Someone just started a thread called Law School Cookbook. FYI, there are lots of things besides chili that you can make in big batches and eat for a week. I like to make two big batches and alternate what I'm eating, so I get less bored.

Also, I thought that loans in the summer meant you get less during the year? At least my undergrad was that way, if you went in the summer they divided up your financial aid into three semesters but the total was the same. I didn't have loans in law school nor did I attend in the summer.

At least at NU, the summer loans are in addition to the 9-month school year budget.

[Bildungsroman]

If you're cooking for one, batch cooking is the way to make that cheap while still having homemade meals ready to fit in during your busy schedule. I like to boil a couple pounds of ground beef along with a couple onions and a couple bell peppers, drain, and then make like 10 burritos. Wrap them individually in aluminum foil and reheat them (350 degrees for 45 minutes) when you're hungry. It's a decently healthy meal (lots of veggies, some meat and some carbs from the tortilla, and once you reheat them you can zest them up with salsa, sour cream, what have you), it works out to be dirt cheap per burrito, and it's tasty. You can make a big pot of chili or stew and then freeze portions in large ziploc bags for individual thawing. Same goes for lasagne, quiche, enchiladas, etc. You can get lot of cooking out of the way in one block of time and save yourself hours during the week that would have been spent cooking.

[FireWife]

Yes, most people take out loans to cover the cost of living. Some schools offer stipends, but those are very, very rare. In my opinion, it makes a good deal more sense to take out loans to live rather than try to juggle a job while in school: Your grades will determine the beginning of your career and your starting salary, the better they are, they higher it will be and the margin of error is likely substantially greater than the amount of money you'd save by working during school.

That, and I buy cheaper caviar and try to limit myself to one bottle of Scotch per week.

My god man how do you live?

[Bildungsroman]

Yes, most people take out loans to cover the cost of living. Some schools offer stipends, but those are very, very rare. In my opinion, it makes a good deal more sense to take out loans to live rather than try to juggle a job while in school: Your grades will determine the beginning of your career and your starting salary, the better they are, they higher it will be and the margin of error is likely substantially greater than the amount of money you'd save by working during school.

That, and I buy cheaper caviar and try to limit myself to one bottle of Scotch per week.

My god man how do you live?

[firemed]

smoke when you're hungry, that's like .20 a meal.

This is credited

+1