Turned down T4 for re-take, next step? Forum

[aclaw55]

Hello everyone,

So I took your advice on re-taking the LSAT a third time for next cycle as opposed to attending St Thomas Miami this fall because it just wasn't worth paying full tuition. For those who didn't read my old post, I know some of you may flame me for my low numbers but I am seeking advice on the next step. I bombed my first LSAT in Oct 2010 (137) by basically going in cold thinking a huge LOR was going to get me in (Ouch). I studied for 3 months and jumped 11 points to a (148) on my Feb 2011 LSAT which ultimately got me in some T4 schools like St Thomas. It was so hard turning away from the idea of starting law school this fall, but part of me believes there is potential to improve on the table that would get me in a better school. I withdrew from St Thomas and I now feel lost. What is the best month to take my third and final LSAT? What is a realistic score I can improve to for this final LSAT? I am guessing between 155 - 160 which should get me into better schools than St Thomas. I read PS bibles already, and have done over 20 prep exams, what is a good method to study for this third re-take? I just had a really hard time convincing myself to turn away from law school this fall but I did not want to leave potential on the table for a better school even if it's a one T difference. I sincerely appreciate all your help and time. I look forward to your advice. Thank you all

[cinephile]

Have you considered a prep course of a private tutor?

[sunynp]

You did the right thing by turning down St Thomas. Do not ever regret that decision.

[aclaw55]

I have taken Kaplan LSAT prep for the Feb exam and I jumped 11 points from the original disaster. I feel that the class was way too simple, and I didn't get much from it. I am a little discouraged that I did over 20 prep tests and only jumped 11 points for Feb. I need to definitely improve my technique to make sure this last re-take is at least 155-160 range which is long way coming from that disgusting cold score I went in and received from October.

Hope I dont regret that decision not to attend, a better school with some $$ would certainly make me feel better next cycle.

[sUkNoIrzTforEall]

It's obviously too late for the June test, so you should take the test in October. EDIT: You should take the October test because admissions are "rolling", which significantly rewards early applicants. Later in the application cycle, fewer spots remain due to early applicants, making those spots more competitive. Get your applications in as early as possible.

Though I do not have personal experience with them, TestMasters is who I would go with for test prep if I had it to do over.

Keep in mind that a big increase in your score could get you scholarship money--more than compensating for the cost of a (good) LSAT prep program.

Here are a couple of websites that really focus on the application process:

http://www.annaivey.com/law-school-admissions
http://www.lawschoolexpert.com/blog/


These ladies also offer application consulting, but it sounds like what you really need is good LSAT prep at this point.

[aclaw55]

I just hope it's possible and realistic that I can break into high 150's coming from an awful cold score of 137 in Oct then 148 in Feb. I just couldn't get myself to sign off on the loans to attend a T4. Hopefully I find the right prep with testmasters course and jump highest on this last re-take in October. Thank you for the links and recommendation.

[ColomboHeat]

Have you considered a prep course of a private tutor?

I signed up with a test prep from http://www.testmasters.net/ and it wasn't even very expensive.

I was able to work with a tutor for 2 day straight about a week before my LSAT. It made a world of a difference. I suggest you ditch the "class" prep and spend some one-on-one time... that way you are not wasting your investment watching others learn the easy stuff.

My tutor really drilled my weakest areas and gave me a lot of tips (and general confidence) to take on my weakest section (LG obviously) I was able to improve from never actually finishing that portion of the exam and testing in the high 150's range to score a 164 on my LSAT.

Just so you understand what I paid for, we spent 2 days going over the most advanced and complex question types in the exam and the tactics that my tutor used to tackle them. She timed me taking old sample questions, and then made me explain my diagrams to her and justify my plan of action. I sat at a desk and she stood up and modeled on a white board like a teacher. Any time I had a question I had 100% of her time and focus to help me understand what I was missing. It was the TestMasters Weekend LSAT Course, but nobody else took it LOL.

[JusticeHarlan]

I believe next comes "?????", after which you can move on to "profit."

[aclaw55]

I just have tough time deciding to stick to this decision not to start law school this fall because for the most part the schools I consider aiming higher for would be New York Law and CUNY Law which you guys probably consider just as much of a failure as St Thomas? My cold was a 137 jumping 11 points to a 148 in 3 months, can I realistically break 155+? I am starting to read dense material because I completely bomb RC. Thanks for the help guys

[crossarmant]

Passing up on a TTTT is a smart idea. It's a little hard to say for sure without your GPA on what you should do, but if you can nail a high 150s/low 160s you have a realistic chance to get in most anywhere in T2 if above a 3.2ish. Attending any of those Tier 2 schools is infinitely better than paying sticker at a Tier 4.

[Momentum]

It's a little hard to say for sure without your GPA on what you should do,

This is a pertinent question. What GPA are you working with?

[aclaw55]

Unfortunately my GPA was a 2.9 (very low). I am hoping if I improve on my third LSAT into the 150's I can pay sticker for better law school than St Thomas Miami. I already was refunded my deposit, and I cannot start law school this fall so I am a bit upset that I feel behind sitting out another year. I am hoping I can make this decision look like a smart one even though I am now looking to start Fall of 2012. Thank you for all the advice guys, I'm feeling really let down I'm not attending this fall.

[Momentum]

I'm feeling really let down I'm not attending this fall.

You shouldn't. You made the mature decision. I'm spending an extra year in school and taking a year off because of the (generally) sound advice on this forum. Before that decision, I was set on starting at FAMU Law this Fall - arguably a more terrible choice than St. Thomas. Instead, I'll be studying for the LSAT and racking up 4.0 semesters. You made a great decision. One year of Pre-Law Purgatory > Spending the rest of your life regretting your lack of foresight. Study HARD for the LSAT. With a 166 and a well put together application, you have an admirable shot at going to UM Law on the other side of town. With a 160, you're looking at Stetson Law up in Tampa. Either of those schools blows St. Thomas out of the water in Florida. It's kitschy, but this is what I do:
--ImageRemoved--
Tape something like this - it's UM's Law Library - on the wall in front of the desk where you spend most of your time studying. That way, when you get frustrated, you can look up and - hey - there's what you're working towards right in front of you. I've got Ithica on my wall, and it keeps me going most of the time. Good luck, I hope to see you in the Splitter's Thread next cycle.

[aclaw55]

Thank you for that advice Momentum,

I guess it's hard to be out there in the world working full-time, when you know you want to be in law school. That's why the idea of turning down St Thomas was so hard, not to mention the location of Miami seems like nice place to go and study (no more NY winters). I also have a college friend who has all the 1L outlines for me down there which was another tempting reason to go. I just wasn't impressed with the school, and didn't want to push myself into an awful situation with debt and barely any job opportunities when it was over just because I wanted to start. I am also in a relationship here at home that shouldn't but did play a factor into the decision to stay home. I just hope I am not regretting this come next cycle. Appreciate all the advice I am getting on here.

[aclaw55]

Any law schools in the NY area that I may be able to get into for January? That would be ideal i'm at about a 151 last time I practiced i'm hoping if I get started now I can jump another 5 to 10 points..

[Bobeo]

Try and break into the mid160s. It will get you in at a T1, and definite money at T2.

[Momentum]

Any law schools in the NY area that I may be able to get into for January? That would be ideal i'm at about a 151 last time I practiced i'm hoping if I get started now I can jump another 5 to 10 points..

High LSAT scores don't travel as far in New York. To have a shot (strong consider on LSP) you would need:

Brooklyn: 167
Yeshiva: 171
Hofstra: 163
Buffalo: 162
St. John's: 166

Also, I noticed you said January. The only one of those schools that accepts Spring matriculants is Cardozo Yeshiva. If you want to start next fall, you need to be studying for the October LSAT right now, like it's your job. If you don't think you can self-study your way to a higher score anymore than you already have, then it might be time to invest in a personal tutor. That's what I plan to do when I hit my score plateau.

[Army2Law]

Not to be Captain Bringdown, but perhaps you shouldn't go to law school with a 2.9 UGPA and sub-150 LSAT scores. If it's your lifelong dream, cool, good for you. Just don't whine about how "law school is a scam" when you have 6-figures of debt and are a junior associate at Burger, King, & McDonald hoping that you can lateral to Olive Garden.

[albanach]

You should take the LSAT when your PT scores are in the range for the schools you want to attend.

Register for October, but this is probably your final shot. In the days approaching the deadline for postponing take a good look at your PT scores and if they're not in range, postpone until December.

Get a good study strategy sorted now. To get the score you need to make up for that GPA, you cannot bomb any section. If you can afford it, I second the recommendation to get a tutor - just make sure it's one that has shows success helping other students make significant point improvements.

[westinghouse60]

When I read in the thread title that you turned down a "T4" instead of the usual "TTTT" for some reason I assumed you meant "top 4" (like T14, T6, etc). And I thought "wow you turned down a top 4 (I assumed Columbia) for a retake in hopes of HYS?"

Lol did anyone else think this?

[ColomboHeat]

yes, that's why he has 800+ views and a handful of responses.

[zonto]

Keeping that in mind, maybe he should go into marketing?

[DaftAndDirect]

Keeping that in mind, maybe he should go into marketing?

nice

[GertrudePerkins]

Not to be Captain Bringdown, but perhaps you shouldn't go to law school with a 2.9 UGPA and sub-150 LSAT scores. If it's your lifelong dream, cool, good for you. Just don't whine about how "law school is a scam" when you have 6-figures of debt and are a junior associate at Burger, King, & McDonald hoping that you can lateral to Olive Garden.

Agreed. Not saying you shouldn't go to law school, but you should ask yourself if studying law and becoming a lawyer is something you seriously want to do -- something you're willing to endure significant sacrifices to do. Will you likely be paying sticker wherever you go? Or do you have a financial ace up your sleeve? If the latter, then go for it. If the former, think long and hard about how much debt you may accrue and how limited your career options may be coming out of even a 3rd (or 2nd!) tier school.

In any case, turning down St. Thomas was extraordinarily wise, but even considering going there seems foolhardy. Also, having a "friend who has the 1L outlines" should play absolutely no role whatsoever in where you decide to go to law school.

[aclaw55]

So I have been studying for my 3rd re-take preferably aiming for December. My friend who is already at STU is telling me they have Sports program with the JD and offer internships with the UN? I know this forum is very elite and high on rankings but is attending CUNY Law or New York Law really going to give better job opportunity and education over STU in Miami? The difference of a 148 LSAT to a 151-155 range which is very reasonable to jump to. Thank you for all your advice