A series of questions concerning HYS, debt, career etc Forum

[Kimchi_smile]

I took the LSAT, which turns out to be 170, but I'm retaking to have a chance at HYS.

My questions are:
1. Is going to HYS while paying full tuition worth it? How will I pay off 210 000 worth of debt afterward? Is HYS a golden guarantee for success in law?

2. How long will it take to pay off a 210K debt? I'm quite risk-averse.

3. I'm interested in Big Law, especially in corporate law field (like M&A). Does having an M&A background a requirement? My undergrad major wasn't business or economics. Would this hurt my chance at OCI?

4. My GPA is 3.86, what LSAT do I need for admission into HYS?

5. If I can't raise my LSAT, does going to Columbia good for my future job prospect (again, corporate law, M&A)?

6. In LS, should I take as many business law courses as possible? Should I even consider an MBA/JD joint program?

7. This may seem like a stupid question, but do I have to have connections to succeed in corporate law world? Do I have to network all the time?

Thank you in advance!

EDIT TO ADD:

8. To become a business transaction lawyer, do I have to have strong negotiation skills? I'm NOT very strong at speaking...(so litigation is out).

[Older Chest]

If you believe you can improve your LSAT, then it would definitely be in your best interest to retake.

While your current LSAT is excellent, referencing Law School Numbers (http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats) leads me to think it is unlikely you would be admitted to Columbia. Check out the site to see what schools accept people with similar numbers to yours, and you should have a much better idea of what you need to have a chance at HYS and CCN.

[Patriot1208]

Your friend and the answers to all your questions

[bdubs]

Columbia is a great choice if your goal is to practice M&A transactional law, but as the poster above mentioned you are unlikely to get in to Columbia with your current LSAT. You are below GPA median at all of HYS, so you should have an LSAT above median to get serious consideration (174+).

I doubt you will want to get a JD/MBA and from what I've heard it doesn't really even matter if you've taken a lot of business focused courses or not. Go to school with the attitude that you need to do what it takes to get good grades. You'll probably have to work on your communication skills in school since I would imagine your interviews may be a struggle if you don't feel comfortable negotiating, networking, or making oral arguments.

[DoubleChecks]

I took the LSAT, which turns out to be 170, but I'm retaking to have a chance at HYS.

My questions are:
1. Is going to HYS while paying full tuition worth it? How will I pay off 210 000 worth of debt afterward? Is HYS a golden guarantee for success in law?

2. How long will it take to pay off a 210K debt? I'm quite risk-averse.

3. I'm interested in Big Law, especially in corporate law field (like M&A). Does having an M&A background a requirement? My undergrad major wasn't business or economics. Would this hurt my chance at OCI?

4. My GPA is 3.86, what LSAT do I need for admission into HYS?

5. If I can't raise my LSAT, does going to Columbia good for my future job prospect (again, corporate law, M&A)?

6. In LS, should I take as many business law courses as possible? Should I even consider an MBA/JD joint program?

7. This may seem like a stupid question, but do I have to have connections to succeed in corporate law world? Do I have to network all the time?

Thank you in advance!

EDIT TO ADD:

8. To become a business transaction lawyer, do I have to have strong negotiation skills? I'm NOT very strong at speaking...(so litigation is out).

i love procrastinating exam study...look, im even answering all your questions! lol

1. HYS full tuition is USUALLY worth it. Is it a guarantee of success post-law school? No, none of them are, though YLS is pretty damn close. Nevertheless, they are prob the best shots a 0L could have at success post-grad. The only other options I'd consider in this would be $$$ at CCN or even MVPB or whatever depending on how much $$$.

2. Depends on how fast you want to repay it. Even at starting $160k, assuming NYC or something, it will not be a pleasant few years (mostly due to how unpleasant biglaw is in the first few yrs too though lol)

3. M&A background definitely not required. Business background is helpful, but once again not required (esp. if you think you need it to get hired at OCI -- a LOT of corporate lawyers do not have business backgrounds)

4. YS are tough to tell, but even for HLS ...iunno HYS as a group, I'd say I'd feel like I have a more comfortable shot with a 176+

5. CLS places a lot of people into NYC biglaw firms, which obviously can do M&A work and the like (in fact, by sheer number isn't CLS the highest placing?) -- of course, you'd actually have grades there so (and I assume, just my gut reaction to CLS, there are a lot of ppl there gunning for biglaw and w/ grades makes it more competitive) it is a bit more stressful

6. Iunno about JD/MBA programs at all...it certainly isn't necessary...taking business law courses are helpful though for a basic background (ex: i am taking intro to accounting in my 2L yr); why not! not saying it will help your chances at OCI for transactional law, prob doesnt help or hurt really...but if you're going to be doing that work and have no background in it, why not familiarize yourself with it a bit?

7. Um, yes you need to network and make connections...you kind of sound like you wouldn't want to do law. Are you looking for a field w/ little interpersonal interaction?

8. See ^#7 -- DEFINITELY need strong negotiation skills (maybe not first few yrs) as a transactional lawyer because well, i hear you do a lot of negotiating. Public speaking prob not so much, but speaking in general? yes..

[Kimchi_smile]

i love procrastinating exam study...look, im even answering all your questions! lol

Thank you so much!

I'm afraid of speaking because...I'm not a native speaker of English. I can speak fine, communicate with people fine, but no I don't have like a Yankee accent. My impression of transactional lawyers is like someone who reads and writes for most of the working day. Is that not it? I wouldn't feel uncomfortable speaking with clients on the phone or communicating with other associates and my bosses, but I don't really want to do the kind of oral speaking that litigators do.

Yes, you guess it right, being a learner of English as a foreign language, the biggest obstacle on my LSAT is reading comprehension...How this makes me kinda afraid that I won't be able to do well in LS and the legal profession...I lost most points on the reading comprehension, leading to a 170. Perfect on LR, though. The thing is, in college I read textbooks fine and did well on tests, but I had to read materials a few times (especially science) to get full comprehension. So a timed reading test isn't my thing.

[Bobeo]

An LSAT addendum explaining your trouble with RC, and English being a second language for you might help. With those things considered, that 170 is even more impressive. Good luck!

[Patriot1208]

An LSAT addendum explaining your trouble with RC, and English being a second language for you might help. With those things considered, that 170 is even more impressive. Good luck!

I would definitely not write an addendum saying you have trouble with English.

[DoubleChecks]

i love procrastinating exam study...look, im even answering all your questions! lol

Thank you so much!

I'm afraid of speaking because...I'm not a native speaker of English. I can speak fine, communicate with people fine, but no I don't have like a Yankee accent. My impression of transactional lawyers is like someone who reads and writes for most of the working day. Is that not it? I wouldn't feel uncomfortable speaking with clients on the phone or communicating with other associates and my bosses, but I don't really want to do the kind of oral speaking that litigators do.

Yes, you guess it right, being a learner of English as a foreign language, the biggest obstacle on my LSAT is reading comprehension...How this makes me kinda afraid that I won't be able to do well in LS and the legal profession...I lost most points on the reading comprehension, leading to a 170. Perfect on LR, though. The thing is, in college I read textbooks fine and did well on tests, but I had to read materials a few times (especially science) to get full comprehension. So a timed reading test isn't my thing.

Well law school and the profession of law has a LOT of reading...so that may not be pleasant. As far as oral speaking as a transactional lawyer, I don't think it would be anything like a litigator...tbh, first few years at biglaw you'd probably be doing a lot of reading and writing most of the working day. Anyone who is actually a biglaw lawyer please jump in if I'm wrong.

[Kimchi_smile]

Yeah, I'm trying to market myself as being multilingual in my PS (fluent in two Asian languages and advanced in other Asian languages, so that's why I'm having like a mixture of a Korean/Chinese accent when speaking English), so I think adding an addendum to say that my English isn't good would probably not be so favorable to my application. But thanks for the advice, though!

[cucullu]

Yeah, I'm trying to market myself as being multilingual in my PS (fluent in two Asian languages and advanced in other Asian languages, so that's why I'm having like a mixture of a Korean/Chinese accent when speaking English), so I think adding an addendum to say that my English isn't good would probably not be so favorable to my application. But thanks for the advice, though!

That's awesome. My good friend who is in securities just spent several months in Japan and was very frustrated (and largely useless) because she couldn't speak the language. Not really sure why they made her live there while the deal was being worked out, but I did recall thinking how great it would be to be a young attorney and know a useful language like Japanese or Mandarin. Curious: are you interested in living outside of the U.S. for work at all? I'd think your multilingualism would be a hot commodity.

Get good writers to proof your PS and Yale 250 and best of luck to you!

[Kimchi_smile]

That's awesome. My good friend who is in securities just spent several months in Japan and was very frustrated (and largely useless) because she couldn't speak the language. Not really sure why they made her live there while the deal was being worked out, but I did recall thinking how great it would be to be a young attorney and know a useful language like Japanese or Mandarin. Curious: are you interested in living outside of the U.S. for work at all? I'd think your multilingualism would be a hot commodity.

Get good writers to proof your PS and Yale 250 and best of luck to you!

Oh this anecdote is really encouraging! In another thread where I asked if languages would be a boost in OCI, I got some positive as well as some mixed, "no/maybe" responses. I'm a 0L so I'm really clueless.

What is the actually work that your friend does that makes her feel useless and frustrated just because of the lack of a Japanese proficiency? Is it because she has to deal with clients who speak Japanese -- but not English -- on a regular basis?

Or, she has to read so many documents written in Japanese?

I was born and raised in an Asian country, but my college years are spent in the US, and I don't mind living in either places. But I heard that it's better to work in the US before getting expatriated.

Thanks for the best of luck wish!