Lots of debt and no biglaw? Forum
-
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 pm
Lots of debt and no biglaw?
I was wondering what typically happens to those who take on a lot of debt but do not end up in biglaw. I hear people talking about how a biglaw job is essential to justify taking on a lot of debt, but what are one's options if biglaw doesn't work out?
I'd assume it varies quite a bit by school, but what sort of employment options is one looking at if they don't want/unable to get biglaw? How would one manage their debt in such a situation?
I'd assume it varies quite a bit by school, but what sort of employment options is one looking at if they don't want/unable to get biglaw? How would one manage their debt in such a situation?
- Kohinoor
- Posts: 2641
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
--ImageRemoved--ku1185 wrote:How would one manage their debt in such a situation?
- Cupidity
- Posts: 2214
- Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
IBR helps if it is an option at your school. While it does mean you are condemned to a life of poverty for 10 years, presumably if you survive that, you can be in your early thirties with a JD and nearly no law school debt. It is possible to live on a lesser salary, especially in secondary markets.
-
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
How would IBR rid my debt in 10 years? Perhaps you're thinking about public interest/gov't loan forgiveness...? That is a different matter altogether (PI is something I am interested in, but I'm not really committed to it yet). If anything, IBR may create even more problems if I stay in the private sector, since I could be paying less than the interest allowing my debt to balloon to an insane amount... and then after 25 years be hit with a couple hundred thousand dollars of tax due.Cupidity wrote:IBR helps if it is an option at your school. While it does mean you are condemned to a life of poverty for 10 years, presumably if you survive that, you can be in your early thirties with a JD and nearly no law school debt. It is possible to live on a lesser salary, especially in secondary markets.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Hannibal
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
-
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
I've checked out the calculators and while they give me an idea of what sort of finances I could expect for a given salary, I'm unsure as to the legal market outside of biglaw and the corresponding pay.Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
FWIW, I don't mind living on less. I've done it/doing it/will do it in law school/will do it after law school.
-
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
You are silly for thinking I would be able to afford a suit, cardboard, and enough markers to write in boxed lettering.Tsispilos wrote:
- Grizz
- Posts: 10564
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
--ImageRemoved--
-
- Posts: 1304
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Almost no one gets "midlaw" out of school. There just aren't enough mid-sized firms that are willing to hire and train significant numbers of non-biglaw-qualified entry level graduates.Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
- Grizz
- Posts: 10564
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Depends on the market.blsingindisguise wrote:Almost no one gets "midlaw" out of school. There just aren't enough mid-sized firms that are willing to hire and train significant numbers of non-biglaw-qualified entry level graduates.Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
-
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:08 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
IBR forgives debt after 10 years if you take any applicable job in the public sector, with a non-profit, or with legal aid.ku1185 wrote:How would IBR rid my debt in 10 years? Perhaps you're thinking about public interest/gov't loan forgiveness...? That is a different matter altogether (PI is something I am interested in, but I'm not really committed to it yet). If anything, IBR may create even more problems if I stay in the private sector, since I could be paying less than the interest allowing my debt to balloon to an insane amount... and then after 25 years be hit with a couple hundred thousand dollars of tax due.Cupidity wrote:IBR helps if it is an option at your school. While it does mean you are condemned to a life of poverty for 10 years, presumably if you survive that, you can be in your early thirties with a JD and nearly no law school debt. It is possible to live on a lesser salary, especially in secondary markets.
The loan is forgiven completely and not taxed as income, unlike the 25 year private sector option. Also, the job doesn't have to be legal. You can be a teacher, janitor for a public school, elected official for a non-partisan position, peace corps, americorps, military, etc.
But the point is, if you don't get Biglaw and have a huge debt load, you pretty much have to scramble for a public sector job for the reason you mentioned.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:18 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Yeah, that was my understanding too. I need to start figuring out how I'm going to finance janitorial school.aliarrow wrote:IBR forgives debt after 10 years if you take any applicable job in the public sector, with a non-profit, or with legal aid.ku1185 wrote:How would IBR rid my debt in 10 years? Perhaps you're thinking about public interest/gov't loan forgiveness...? That is a different matter altogether (PI is something I am interested in, but I'm not really committed to it yet). If anything, IBR may create even more problems if I stay in the private sector, since I could be paying less than the interest allowing my debt to balloon to an insane amount... and then after 25 years be hit with a couple hundred thousand dollars of tax due.Cupidity wrote:IBR helps if it is an option at your school. While it does mean you are condemned to a life of poverty for 10 years, presumably if you survive that, you can be in your early thirties with a JD and nearly no law school debt. It is possible to live on a lesser salary, especially in secondary markets.
The loan is forgiven completely and not taxed as income, unlike the 25 year private sector option. Also, the job doesn't have to be legal. You can be a teacher, janitor for a public school, elected official for a non-partisan position, peace corps, americorps, military, etc.
But the point is, if you don't get Biglaw and have a huge debt load, you pretty much have to scramble for a public sector job for the reason you mentioned.
- Veyron
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
- Hannibal
- Posts: 2211
- Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
It's harder right?Veyron wrote:Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
Just saying it's an additional option that still leaves you very comfortable.
- Grizz
- Posts: 10564
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
It depends what you mean by midlawHannibal wrote: It's harder right?
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- Veyron
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
So is winning the lottery or starring in your own reality television series.Hannibal wrote:It's harder right?Veyron wrote:Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
Just saying it's an additional option that still leaves you very comfortable.
These are also difficult to land. Even historically well funded PI outfits are pretty hard up right now.But the point is, if you don't get Biglaw and have a huge debt load, you pretty much have to scramble for a public sector job for the reason you mentioned.
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Midlaw is a myth. NU's salary data shows that for CO 2009, ZERO people made between 80K and 120K. Only 9 people made between 60K and 140K.Veyron wrote:Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
- Veyron
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Depends greatly on the market. In some, the majority of the hiring occurs at firms that pay between those two figures. Obviously, we aren't talking about NYC.Desert Fox wrote:Midlaw is a myth. NU's salary data shows that for CO 2009, ZERO people made between 80K and 120K. Only 9 people made between 60K and 140K.Veyron wrote:Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
-
- Posts: 1505
- Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:56 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Suicide is TCR.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 18203
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Yea but those are still big law. The market rate is just lower.Veyron wrote:Depends greatly on the market. In some, the majority of the hiring occurs at firms that pay between those two figures. Obviously, we aren't talking about NYC.Desert Fox wrote:Midlaw is a myth. NU's salary data shows that for CO 2009, ZERO people made between 80K and 120K. Only 9 people made between 60K and 140K.Veyron wrote:Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?Hannibal wrote:FYI, you can use a debt calculator to figure out exactly how much spending money you'll have with each salary. Basically, it depends a lot on how long you're willing to stretch out loans, whether you're PI, your salary number (obviously), and what you're willing to live on. You can live comfortably for 30k a year even on somewhat high COL areas. Also, poverty is a real problem that people shouldn't use to exaggerate for self-pity.
Also, midlaw pays absolutely fine.
-
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:08 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
I know that, but it doesn't have to be a legal job for IBR forgiveness. Like I said, it can be military, public school janitor, peace corps, etc, which are a bit easier to land (though maybe not by much if the budget issues continue)Veyron wrote:But the point is, if you don't get Biglaw and have a huge debt load, you pretty much have to scramble for a public sector job for the reason you mentioned.
These are also difficult to land. Even historically well funded PI outfits are pretty hard up right now.
- Veyron
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:50 am
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
[/quote]Midlaw does pay fine. Too bad its just about as hard to get as biglaw, huh?[/quote]
Midlaw is a myth. NU's salary data shows that for CO 2009, ZERO people made between 80K and 120K. Only 9 people made between 60K and 140K.[/quote]
Depends greatly on the market. In some, the majority of the hiring occurs at firms that pay between those two figures. Obviously, we aren't talking about NYC.[/quote]
Yea but those are still big law. The market rate is just lower.[/quote]
I consider the ones near the top to be biglaw but many are not V100s or NLJ 250s. The ones that pay 80 are midlaw by any definition.
Midlaw is a myth. NU's salary data shows that for CO 2009, ZERO people made between 80K and 120K. Only 9 people made between 60K and 140K.[/quote]
Depends greatly on the market. In some, the majority of the hiring occurs at firms that pay between those two figures. Obviously, we aren't talking about NYC.[/quote]
Yea but those are still big law. The market rate is just lower.[/quote]
I consider the ones near the top to be biglaw but many are not V100s or NLJ 250s. The ones that pay 80 are midlaw by any definition.
-
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:08 pm
Re: Lots of debt and no biglaw?
Being a public school teacher probably wouldnt too bad of a fallback actually. I think the starting pay for a JD is at least in the mid-50s, debt payments would be low and forgiven with IBR, and it still counts even though you only work 8-9 months a year.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login