Working while being an 1L Forum

[Melkaba]

Yeah, yeah, it's that time again. Currently, I'm going to be attending Washington University St. Louis Law School and I'm expecting it to be a much bigger time sink than I could possibly imagine. At the advice of my parents, I took out enough student loans to have an alternate source of income if I couldn't get a job. Before this morning, I knew that most people advised to not work at all during the first year, but I didn't actually know that this subject matter was an official one in the ABA (since the ABA allows up to 20 hours). I know some schools actually flat out bar students from working at all during the first year, but I plan to send an e-mail to my academic advisor to see if WUSTL doesn't have its own specific rules on the subject.

In the meantime, I need some assistance in collecting my thoughts (or at least get an outside opinion). Currently, I have two jobs. One, I work as an unpaid student intern in my county's municipal court for about 10 hours a week. Here, I mostly help the law clerks and court liaison with different tasks and I also have the choice to sit in on their court days (I observed their trial court day and I actually did learn a lot and enjoyed myself). Second, I work under a paid position of Massive-Retail-Chain-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named. In said retail chain, the managers know I'll be starting law school soon (although I don't have a schedule yet) and at least understand that it'll be a challenge (although, one of the assistant managers did state that he understands that law school would be some "serious master-level course stuff"). They say now that they'll be able to plan around my schedule, but they did foreshadow that a situation like being scheduled for a midnight shift before a major exam can (and most likely would) be a likely scenario. So far, I'm working weekends and/or two random days and working about anywhere from 16-24 hours a week. The retail work isn't difficult more than just tremendously boring.

So, should I just quit both, keep one, or keep both? I imagine that the court would be much more flexible schedule-wise for obvious reasons and I'm already building some contacts with the judges and prosecutors (although, humorously, they always joked about talking my out of law school and I thought myself to be a little crazy that I still want to go through with the law even after viewing court night), but the allure of getting actual money is a good incentive for the other job. On the other hand, I might have problems retaining my sanity if they give me some odd shifts on weekends (they usually give closing immediately followed by opening consecutive shifts). Simple question, I guess, but I always appreciate outside opinions.

[bex]

I would think that if you're going to work during 1L while going through all the rigors of school, get paid for it. So ditch the unpaid internship. But I wouldn't count on being able to handle anywhere near 20 hours per week if you are a full-time student. If you're part-time, it should be fine, but otherwise it would be hard. I guess it depends on your schedule, like if you have any days off. The unpredictable nature of the shifts could be a big problem once finals come around or when you have a memo due.

[Melkaba]

I would think that if you're going to work during 1L while going through all the rigors of school, get paid for it. So ditch the unpaid internship. But I wouldn't count on being able to handle anywhere near 20 hours per week if you are a full-time student. If you're part-time, it should be fine, but otherwise it would be hard. I guess it depends on your schedule, like if you have any days off. The unpredictable nature of the shifts could be a big problem once finals come around or when you have a memo due.

Yeah, I will end up being a full-time student. And the unpredictability of the retail job is something that worries me, especially when considering that they always make their schedule for the next week on the very last day possible of the current scheduling week, which makes even planning things now almost impossible (and with law school thrown into the mix.. oh boy). And while combining Monday-Friday class days with the weekends, I guess I'd probably have no real off days even at minimum.

[billyez]

Could I get a better understanding of why you want to work during 1L? I really enjoy my job and hate to leave, but it simply doesn't make sense to me to divide my attention during 1L unless it was for a compelling purpose. If this was a job where you were going to make a lot of money, maybe I could see why you'd want to keep it, but a retail one?

[profs<3mycomments]

Sort of depends on your career goals, but pretty much across-the-board a stellar 1L performance is going to open the door to lots of opportunity. I would quit both or keep the internship. Do the 9 months of studying your ass off, pick up some work as soon as finals are over. There are a lot of opportunities to make money in law school - work for a professor, work at the library/gym, etc. But during 1L you should be focusing on your grades. Compare the money you're spending on LS and the money you'd make during the 9 months of 1L working retail - easy to see the right priority.

[Melkaba]

Could I get a better understanding of why you want to work during 1L? I really enjoy my job and hate to leave, but it simply doesn't make sense to me to divide my attention during 1L unless it was for a compelling purpose. If this was a job where you were going to make a lot of money, maybe I could see why you'd want to keep it, but a retail one?

Certainly. For the moment, it's more of a way to have some extra bit of spending money since my parents relocated and left me with the house. I won't have to take care of the mortgage, but I'll still have to chip in with utilities here and there. In addition, I'll need a way for gas money, food, dog food to take care of our dog (luckily, she's about 7 and well-trained so she doesn't require an a tremendous amount of maintenance), and extra money for some means of entertainment in any spare time not spent studying (I read books and play video games - I don't intend for either to overshadow what's really important, as they never have conflicted with such in the past, but I'd imagine I'd need some form of enjoyment to fall back on especially when considering how rigorous I'm expecting LS to be). With all that said, I'll admit that the situation isn't as dire as most, especially since I took out enough loans to live off of as a backup during the year and I at least got approved for the PLUS loans. In essence, my mentality is just making absolutely sure that I'd want to close a door for making some form of income, especially since going back later on down the road is a bit dicey when concerning the high turnover/replacement rates of retail work.

[doubled99]

I too planned to work part time retail during 1L. Are most people really against any kind of work during 1L?

[blink]

1L year is the most important year of law school. Don't waste time working. Do everything in your power to be near the top of your class to help compete for jobs.

[1Levening2013]

i think you should continue to work at wal-mart at least through the beginning of the semester to get employee discounts on pens, highlighters, etc.




as an evening student who works 60hr/week and attends class at night, i'd advise you to not work at all.....but seriously, if you are going to put yourself through that, get paid...

[lawschooliseasy]

If you work for 20hrs/wk during 1L you'll probably net less than $10,000 (including the interest you would otherwise have to pay on your earnings). If you're 5% higher in your class, you might get a job that pays you an extra $10,000 signing bonus. No contest, don't work.

[blink]

If you work for 20hrs/wk during 1L you'll probably net less than $10,000 (including the interest you would otherwise have to pay on your earnings). If you're 5% higher in your class, you might get a job that pays you an extra $10,000 signing bonus. No contest, don't work.

exactly.

[270910]

Broski.

*smack*

*smack smack smack*

Your first year grades at law school set the stage for your career. Your performance in those (stressful, often overwhleming) 9 months will make the difference between employment you love and/or are over-compensated for and struggling to obtain any legal job much less one of your choosing or of sufficient remuneration.

With the exception of people for whom law school plays a very defined career role (need the JD for a promotion, to work in the family law firm, etc.) your first year will open or shut enormous numbers of doors with respect to your career spanning years.

Why, pray tell, would you even spend a moment considering a part time job (or TWO) while you go through that? You need to get your priorities straight. Law school is insanely expensive, but the proper way to manage that investment is by reaping rewards and not mitigating the cost with the paltry salary of a shift employee at a big box store.

Why are you going to law school? What do you want to get out of it? How much are you willing to devote to obtaining those goals?

You could coast through high school and college with a million different plans without things being too consequential. That's all over now. Make the most of this opportunity.

[Baylan]

Yeah, yeah, it's that time again. Currently, I'm going to be attending Washington University St. Louis Law School and I'm expecting it to be a much bigger time sink than I could possibly imagine. At the advice of my parents, I took out enough student loans to have an alternate source of income if I couldn't get a job. Before this morning, I knew that most people advised to not work at all during the first year, but I didn't actually know that this subject matter was an official one in the ABA (since the ABA allows up to 20 hours). I know some schools actually flat out bar students from working at all during the first year, but I plan to send an e-mail to my academic advisor to see if WUSTL doesn't have its own specific rules on the subject.

In the meantime, I need some assistance in collecting my thoughts (or at least get an outside opinion). Currently, I have two jobs. One, I work as an unpaid student intern in my county's municipal court for about 10 hours a week. Here, I mostly help the law clerks and court liaison with different tasks and I also have the choice to sit in on their court days (I observed their trial court day and I actually did learn a lot and enjoyed myself). Second, I work under a paid position of Massive-Retail-Chain-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named. In said retail chain, the managers know I'll be starting law school soon (although I don't have a schedule yet) and at least understand that it'll be a challenge (although, one of the assistant managers did state that he understands that law school would be some "serious master-level course stuff"). They say now that they'll be able to plan around my schedule, but they did foreshadow that a situation like being scheduled for a midnight shift before a major exam can (and most likely would) be a likely scenario. So far, I'm working weekends and/or two random days and working about anywhere from 16-24 hours a week. The retail work isn't difficult more than just tremendously boring.

So, should I just quit both, keep one, or keep both? I imagine that the court would be much more flexible schedule-wise for obvious reasons and I'm already building some contacts with the judges and prosecutors (although, humorously, they always joked about talking my out of law school and I thought myself to be a little crazy that I still want to go through with the law even after viewing court night), but the allure of getting actual money is a good incentive for the other job. On the other hand, I might have problems retaining my sanity if they give me some odd shifts on weekends (they usually give closing immediately followed by opening consecutive shifts). Simple question, I guess, but I always appreciate outside opinions.

Many law schools do not allow you to work during 1L. The ABA puts a 15 hour limit on it. Even working 15 hours is frequently not recommended. I would dump AT LEAST the 16-24 hour Massive-Retail Chain job and likely the volunteer work - let them know that you want to focus on your studies and would be interested in coming back later on in your law school career.

Think about value-added. Those 10 hours a week you're spending could be better spent on making your long-term employment prospects better by studying and improving your grades.

[Aeroplane]

I too planned to work part time retail during 1L. Are most people really against any kind of work during 1L?

Probably not against 'any' kind of work. But inflexible shift work is not ideal. If you can get more flexible work-from-home work (editing, etc) or chill sit-at-desk work where you have spare time to read, you should be OK. I RA'd my 1L spring, and that was fine.

[AR75]

You see, disco_barred--he's got the answer you need. You should PM him for a mentorship.

[TTH]

I imagine this is going to be a moot point when WUSTL, like any reputable law school, tells him "WTF WORK DURING 1L?!?1 nOEZ!"

If they don't, then allow me.

WTF WORK DURING 1L?!?!?1 nOEZ!

[jay115]

seriously, law school is a massive investment. ditch walmart and the gig as the errand boy at the municipal court and rock the first year of law school

[Melkaba]

I imagine this is going to be a moot point when WUSTL, like any reputable law school, tells him "WTF WORK DURING 1L?!?1 nOEZ!"

If they don't, then allow me.

WTF WORK DURING 1L?!?!?1 nOEZ!

Surprisingly, WUSTL did say that they didn't have an extra-rule aganist working outside of what the ABA said. But the financial aid director couldn't emphasize enough that 1L's should not work.

But after reading all the posts in the topic, yeah, I do agree that working during the first year is pretty bad. Even using half of the 20 hours that would otherwise be used for working during the evenings/weekend would give me an additional 100+ hours of study time for finals at minimum. I'm betting it'll come down to either LS or retail job in the eyes of my bosses, because I don't see them being willing to work around things (and you know what choice I'm going to pick). I'm on the fence about the court job, as they'll be able to work with my schedule in anyway, even if they meant working only an hour/two hours a week. But I dunno. At this point, I'm just going to try to keep my schedule as free as possible for LS.

[zardoz]

OK, so I did work during 1L, and it was fine. But I have a job that lets me schedule my hours and doesn't require any particular amount of hours per week. I didn't work at all from just before Thanksgiving until after Christmas during fall semester, and I only worked one day in the last five weeks of spring semester. This let me focus completely on studying before and during final exams. The rest of the time I probably averaged between 12-16 hours per week. If you are desperate for extra income, you might look at working at the library on campus, or another position that would allow you to do some studying while you work. My job also had this flexibility, and I did a lot of reviewing class notes and constructing outlines while I was at work. It was harder to read new material, because I just couldn't focus enough with the interruptions to do work related things.