Publishing while in school Forum

[lawls]

I'm an 0L with some graduate and publishing experience (outside of law, but law-related). My ideal career path would be to pursue legal academia. What I am wondering is how likely it is that I'd be able to use 2L/3L coursework as a springboard for publishable research, and ideally for publications that I could have in the pipeline near the close of my degree. Is it common for Professors either to encourage you to use coursework in this manner (and set up classes such that it is possible), or to work closely with students? Would I essentially be on my own? And would I just have zero time to accomplish this, even if it is a priority for me?

Since I suspect this is pretty school specific--I know Yale is quite helpful in this regard--I'd especially like info on t6+Michigan if anyone has any. I've had some limited advice from friends on the subject, but it has been somewhat conflicting so far.

[ggocat]

Professors are people with individual personalities. Some will work closely with you, and others will not. A good prof will guide you with your project, and some papers for classes can be submitted to journals virtually unchanged. You will have time to do it. Most law journals also publish their own students' work, so you can join one of those (well, most likely must if you want academia) and have an added crack at publishing.

[reverendt]

I think the best move would be to try to get on Law Review/secondary journal. At most schools, membership includes having to write a "note"....essentially a scholarly article presenting a unique/novel view on a legal matter.
At my school, this is done 2L year. 3Ls on the journal help guide you, and we were given a "mentor" (which...since I'm on a tax law journal, was an alumni who is a tax law professional) who we could turn to for help if we were stuck.
Anyway, most journals pick a few of these notes each year for publication.
Even if you're not picked by your journal, you could probably try submitting yours to some other school's journal.
This is really the main way to get published in law school.
As far as "course work" inspired writings...that would probably only come into play if you take a writing seminar (which you may be required to do.) For example, this fall I'm taking a current issues of constitutional law seminar which culminates in a research paper. So i guess you could use something like that as a basis for publication-worthy material.
BUT like I said....this is typically done through the law reviews/journals.
Good luck!

[270910]

Lots and lots of people publish while in school. It's damn near required to become a prof, so you'll be in good shape. Profs are approachable, course work can be published, journals require writing, etc.

[shortporch]

To pursue a career in legal academia, realize that the first several steps occur before publication. You should, hopefully, have a solid undergraduate degree. You're attending a top 7 law school, a good sign. You then need to achieve stellar grades, and then you almost must get on law review. And you should get to know professors in your field. And then you should publish a Note. (And then there are a number of things you should do after that.)

Now, all of those are, in a sense, prerequisites. As a second- or third-year student, you can also try to publish an article in another school's publication or in a peer-reviewed journal. Be warned, however and ironically, that most student-run journals tend to frown on student-authored pieces, while peer-reviewed journals are more willing to consider them. Have a professor or two mentor you and help you narrow the piece as it should be. Go through several drafts with them. You can definitely make time for it, especially as an upper-level student with control over your schedule.

Also, keep in mind that you already need to "brand" yourself in your publications. If you want to teach tax, you should start thinking about tax pieces. Publishing an international law piece, then going on the academic job market as a tax scholar will result in some skepticism about your interest.

[270910]

Just posting to say that shortporch knows what (s)he is talking about and should be listened to / prostrated before.

[spondee]

You should, hopefully, have a solid undergraduate degree.

Why does this matter? And how much does it matter?

[shortporch]

You should, hopefully, have a solid undergraduate degree.

Why does this matter? And how much does it matter?

Well, it may not matter very much, but it can help. If you have a background in, say, statistics, or economics, or history, or other fields particularly useful in some areas of legal scholarship, it can be beneficial. And if you went to an elite undergraduate institution, it reinforces for the committee that your credentials are good. It seems silly, but I'm just being descriptive. A large number of academics come from top-20 undergrads. That, in turn, means that committees are more impressed by undergrad degrees from a similar background. Again, it's not a deal-breaker, but it *can* mean something.

[lawls]

To pursue a career in legal academia, realize that the first several steps occur before publication. You should, hopefully, have a solid undergraduate degree. You're attending a top 7 law school, a good sign. You then need to achieve stellar grades, and then you almost must get on law review. And you should get to know professors in your field. And then you should publish a Note. (And then there are a number of things you should do after that.)

Now, all of those are, in a sense, prerequisites. As a second- or third-year student, you can also try to publish an article in another school's publication or in a peer-reviewed journal. Be warned, however and ironically, that most student-run journals tend to frown on student-authored pieces, while peer-reviewed journals are more willing to consider them. Have a professor or two mentor you and help you narrow the piece as it should be. Go through several drafts with them. You can definitely make time for it, especially as an upper-level student with control over your schedule.

Also, keep in mind that you already need to "brand" yourself in your publications. If you want to teach tax, you should start thinking about tax pieces. Publishing an international law piece, then going on the academic job market as a tax scholar will result in some skepticism about your interest.

Thanks for the solid advice.

I have one question about branding. I know my primary interests (con law), and thus my likely articles, tend to be in over-supply in the teaching market. In other disciplines, it is common practice--especially when you are specializing in a sub-field that has a tough job market--to develop a wider ranges of courses which one can teach, and particularly those courses which are staples for the discipline (such as methods, or intro to X, etc.), but which aren't as glamorous to teach. It helps you get your foot in the door, the toughest part...

Does it work like this in legal academia? And would I need to publish in these other areas to be competitive? One strategy in the disciplines I'm familiar with is to try to write at least some pieces at the intersections of two topics. So, for instance, on something that involves con law + contracts if you are trying to market yourself as being able to teach both (no idea if this is feasible, just a hypothetical). Is this the correct way to look at it?

[shortporch]

Thanks for the solid advice.

I have one question about branding. I know my primary interests (con law), and thus my likely articles, tend to be in over-supply in the teaching market. In other disciplines, it is common practice--especially when you are specializing in a sub-field that has a tough job market--to develop a wider ranges of courses which one can teach, and particularly those courses which are staples for the discipline (such as methods, or intro to X, etc.), but which aren't as glamorous to teach. It helps you get your foot in the door, the toughest part...

Does it work like this in legal academia? And would I need to publish in these other areas to be competitive? One strategy in the disciplines I'm familiar with is to try to write at least some pieces at the intersections of two topics. So, for instance, on something that involves con law + contracts if you are trying to market yourself as being able to teach both (no idea if this is feasible, just a hypothetical). Is this the correct way to look at it?

Realize that your question just went from "how do I play in the NFL?" to "how do I play quarterback in the NFL?" There are a number of disciplines that are extremely competitive, and constitutional law is very high among them. I guess it shouldn't be too surprising, because most 0Ls with a real "passion" for law school are driven by constitutional law.

Beyond the typical competition for these positions, con law slots end up going to the former Supreme Court clerks or someone with other truly elite credentials I can't even start to advise you on this path, unless, say, Akil Amar at Yale is going to personally back you for con law positions. Also, most generic faculty members (I'm being descriptive) feel "comfortable" teaching con law, but won't feel comfortable teaching, say, tax or international law. So they're going to look for people to teach the courses they wouldn't feel comfortable teaching. Finally, as the economy makes tax dollars and donations scarce, more law schools are looking at hiring specific scholars in fields rather than broader ones, and constitutional law just doesn't have that many slots.

Maybe you should cool it for a bit and see what disciplines you like in law school. Maybe you'll be able to carve out a niche in there. Your specific example of con law and contracts is probably impossible and also fairly transparent, but if you showed interest in, say, civil procedure jurisdictional issues, punitive damages awards in torts, and so on, you could find ways of constitutional law intersecting other disciplines. And there's certainly no harm in publishing in constitutional law as a student--student-run law reviews have a heavy bias toward constitutional law pieces, so it may well make sense. But recognize that you'll have to "brand" yourself differently if you enter the academic market.

[lawls]

Thanks for the solid advice.

I have one question about branding. I know my primary interests (con law), and thus my likely articles, tend to be in over-supply in the teaching market. In other disciplines, it is common practice--especially when you are specializing in a sub-field that has a tough job market--to develop a wider ranges of courses which one can teach, and particularly those courses which are staples for the discipline (such as methods, or intro to X, etc.), but which aren't as glamorous to teach. It helps you get your foot in the door, the toughest part...

Does it work like this in legal academia? And would I need to publish in these other areas to be competitive? One strategy in the disciplines I'm familiar with is to try to write at least some pieces at the intersections of two topics. So, for instance, on something that involves con law + contracts if you are trying to market yourself as being able to teach both (no idea if this is feasible, just a hypothetical). Is this the correct way to look at it?

Realize that your question just went from "how do I play in the NFL?" to "how do I play quarterback in the NFL?" There are a number of disciplines that are extremely competitive, and constitutional law is very high among them. I guess it shouldn't be too surprising, because most 0Ls with a real "passion" for law school are driven by constitutional law.

Beyond the typical competition for these positions, con law slots end up going to the former Supreme Court clerks or someone with other truly elite credentials I can't even start to advise you on this path, unless, say, Akil Amar at Yale is going to personally back you for con law positions. Also, most generic faculty members (I'm being descriptive) feel "comfortable" teaching con law, but won't feel comfortable teaching, say, tax or international law. So they're going to look for people to teach the courses they wouldn't feel comfortable teaching. Finally, as the economy makes tax dollars and donations scarce, more law schools are looking at hiring specific scholars in fields rather than broader ones, and constitutional law just doesn't have that many slots.

Maybe you should cool it for a bit and see what disciplines you like in law school. Maybe you'll be able to carve out a niche in there. You're specific example of con law and contracts is probably impossible and also fairly transparent, but if you showed interest in, say, civil procedure jurisdictional issues, punitive damages awards in torts, and so on, you could find ways of constitutional law intersecting other disciplines. And there's certainly no harm in publishing in constitutional law as a student--student-run law reviews have a heavy bias toward constitutional law pieces, so it may well make sense. But recognize that you'll have to "brand" yourself differently if you enter the academic market.

Thanks again for the advice, it is very helpful--always good when some replies who clearly knows what they are talking about. I will cool it for a bit and see how 1L goes (and crossing fingers for Yale!).

[lawls]

Also, do you have a link to your XOXO thread on publishing by chance? Couldn't find it, thought I'd ask the source