Is it worth it? Forum

[splitterhopeful]

I have a philosophy degree from a state school, so I feel your pain.

You can make a decent living wage by temping as a Customer Service Rep. It's not exactly glamorous, but you can pay down that 10k in credit card debts, which should be your absolute first priority before talking about anything else.

Yeah how has this not been mentioned? You are a recent college grad with 10k of credit card debt?

Yes, I know that is priority #1. I am obviously applying for fall '11 admission to law school, so I am planning on working on that for the next year.

[romothesavior]

I have a philosophy degree from a state school, so I feel your pain.

You can make a decent living wage by temping as a Customer Service Rep. It's not exactly glamorous, but you can pay down that 10k in credit card debts, which should be your absolute first priority before talking about anything else.

Yeah how has this not been mentioned? You are a recent college grad with 10k of credit card debt?

Yes, I know that is priority #1. I am obviously applying for fall '11 admission to law school, so I am planning on working on that for the next year.

Retake. Get in the 170s. ED to Northwestern.

[splitterhopeful]

I have a philosophy degree from a state school, so I feel your pain.

You can make a decent living wage by temping as a Customer Service Rep. It's not exactly glamorous, but you can pay down that 10k in credit card debts, which should be your absolute first priority before talking about anything else.

Yeah how has this not been mentioned? You are a recent college grad with 10k of credit card debt?

Yes, I know that is priority #1. I am obviously applying for fall '11 admission to law school, so I am planning on working on that for the next year.

Retake. Get in the 170s. ED to Northwestern.

Will do.

However, I do not want to end up in Chicago/the midwest. I'd much rather stay in the SE. Would Northwestern be portable to my home state of North Carolina/the rest of the south? I am assuming as a T-14 that it would.

[TommyK]

English because I was completely oblivious to the realities of professional employment, and I enjoyed reading and writing essays about literature and philosophy.

Generally, people do english to teach. That is probably your only real option right now. Or go get your masters in journalism and try to take that avenue. Otherwise, you just have to do an analysis of the risk-reward that is a law school you could get in to. But I would also suggest a retake.[/quote]

I suggest that if you would like your future to look brighter, to not go into journalism.

As an aside - I'm not convinced you have to go back and get another bachelors degree to get a job in IT. If you're interested in hardware / networking, look into picking up your CCNA or another Cisco certification. This should put you in line for a job that pays low-40's, or at least that's what we were paying for entry level people 2 years ago. Not sure what the market looks like now. If you want to get a job in software development, it may be a little bit more challenging, but IT is one of those fields that I don't think relies too much on degrees, so much as proven technical expertise and current certifications & training. If you end up digging that field and are open to travel, you can make some seriously solid money down the road. You could get into network security and you could be looking at 6 figures several years down the road.

Ugh, I hate ending two sentences with the same phrase.

[splitterhopeful]

English because I was completely oblivious to the realities of professional employment, and I enjoyed reading and writing essays about literature and philosophy.

Generally, people do english to teach. That is probably your only real option right now. Or go get your masters in journalism and try to take that avenue. Otherwise, you just have to do an analysis of the risk-reward that is a law school you could get in to. But I would also suggest a retake.

I suggest that if you would like your future to look brighter, to not go into journalism.

As an aside - I'm not convinced you have to go back and get another bachelors degree to get a job in IT. If you're interested in hardware / networking, look into picking up your CCNA or another Cisco certification. This should put you in line for a job that pays low-40's, or at least that's what we were paying for entry level people 2 years ago. Not sure what the market looks like now. If you want to get a job in software development, it may be a little bit more challenging, but IT is one of those fields that I don't think relies too much on degrees, so much as proven technical expertise and current certifications & training. If you end up digging that field and are open to travel, you can make some seriously solid money down the road. You could get into network security and you could be looking at 6 figures several years down the road.

Ugh, I hate ending two sentences with the same phrase.[/quote]

CCNA? Interesting. $250 instead of thousands for a degree, but all the jobs I see in my area with a quick search are not entry level or also require a computer-related BS/MS. Fun times!

[legalease9]

The wild speculation and sweeping generalizations made on this board by those with no personal experience are somewhere between humorous and troubling.

Please elaborate. I see very little "wild speculation" or "sweeping generalizations" ITT.

to be fair, my gpa comment was a sweeping generalization. i was reading into OP's tone and didn't see much interest in the law itself, but more on the money.

C'mon, lets not be so naive and think that this isn't the majority of peoples motivation...

Very few people just LOVE the law. I could get a SA position with my federal agency almost for sure after undergrad (and for sure if I stayed and worked there during my masters), but I rather have more upward mobility in income.

You probably shouldn't go to law school. Well I will agree with you that there are a lot of people going to law school only to make money, there are also a lot of miserable lawyers. This is why. Besides, as many will attest, Law is a terrible way to make money anyway. Too much debt and lost income to justify it. Even if you do get rich, you won't be happy working big law if you don't want to be do law!

OP, you too shouldn't go to law school if money is your primary concern. There are other ways to get out of debt, including getting a full time job (you have to be working part time to be pulling in 13k). You are young with no kids (right...?) so you will be fine. Have you considered a teaching certificate? Don't throw away three years of your life to something that doesn't interest you on the promise of riches.

[thebookcollector]

Does anybody have that law school decision chart? If I remember correctly, it was pretty helpful.

[splitterhopeful]

OP, you too shouldn't go to law school if money is your primary concern. There are other ways to get out of debt, including getting a full time job (you have to be working part time to be pulling in 13k). You are young with no kids (right...?) so you will be fine. Have you considered a teaching certificate? Don't throw away three years of your life to something that doesn't interest you on the promise of riches.

Yes, thank God I am (almost) 24 and (definitely) kid-free.

[Patriot1208]

Please elaborate. I see very little "wild speculation" or "sweeping generalizations" ITT.

to be fair, my gpa comment was a sweeping generalization. i was reading into OP's tone and didn't see much interest in the law itself, but more on the money.

C'mon, lets not be so naive and think that this isn't the majority of peoples motivation...

Very few people just LOVE the law. I could get a SA position with my federal agency almost for sure after undergrad (and for sure if I stayed and worked there during my masters), but I rather have more upward mobility in income.

You probably shouldn't go to law school. Well I will agree with you that there are a lot of people going to law school only to make money, there are also a lot of miserable lawyers. This is why. Besides, as many will attest, Law is a terrible way to make money anyway. Too much debt and lost income to justify it. Even if you do get rich, you won't be happy working big law if you don't want to be do law!

OP, you too shouldn't go to law school if money is your primary concern. There are other ways to get out of debt, including getting a full time job (you have to be working part time to be pulling in 13k). You are young with no kids (right...?) so you will be fine. Have you considered a teaching certificate? Don't throw away three years of your life to something that doesn't interest you on the promise of riches.

Well, I want to do something related to the legal system for sure, I don't mind working long hours (the SA's in at my agency work 60 hours a week for sure), and I should likely have very little debt no matter what school I go to (dead grandparents bonds ftw). And I've already decided that i'm t-14 13 or bust. So I think I'm ok. But thanks for the quintessintial stupid argument that is "don't do something unless you woke up at 5 years old wanting to do it".

[BeautifulSW]

There actually IS work out there for graduates of less-than-stellar law schools. Last Sunday's Albuquerque Journal ran a piece about legal hiring in New Mexico that suggested that there's still room in most of the state (outside Santa Fe, that is). In my own experience of 25 years practicing law here, I think that the report is substantially correct. Few jobs of any sort in New Mexico start out with six figure salaries but the cost of living is quite low. You can read the piece online.

I'm not suggesting that all the unemployed J.D.s in the country should descend on our poor state! Most of the jobs seem to start at around $50,000 with full benefits; that's probably not attractive enough to make a hardened New Yorker up stakes and come out here. Some public sector positions advertise as low as $36,000 but I doubt anyone actually pays that little. I'd guess that $45,000 with benefits is the least anyone starts at.

Anyway...before deciding whether law school is worth it, the student should take a close look at the markets where he might be willing to live. It isn't uniform across the country.

[legalease9]

Does anybody have that law school decision chart? If I remember correctly, it was pretty helpful.

I'd like to see this too.

[rayiner]

IT is actually a good suggestion.

[legalease9]

C'mon, lets not be so naive and think that this isn't the majority of peoples motivation...

Very few people just LOVE the law. I could get a SA position with my federal agency almost for sure after undergrad (and for sure if I stayed and worked there during my masters), but I rather have more upward mobility in income.

You probably shouldn't go to law school. Well I will agree with you that there are a lot of people going to law school only to make money, there are also a lot of miserable lawyers. This is why. Besides, as many will attest, Law is a terrible way to make money anyway. Too much debt and lost income to justify it. Even if you do get rich, you won't be happy working big law if you don't want to be do law!

OP, you too shouldn't go to law school if money is your primary concern. There are other ways to get out of debt, including getting a full time job (you have to be working part time to be pulling in 13k). You are young with no kids (right...?) so you will be fine. Have you considered a teaching certificate? Don't throw away three years of your life to something that doesn't interest you on the promise of riches.

Well, I want to do something related to the legal system for sure, I don't mind working long hours (the SA's in at my agency work 60 hours a week for sure), and I should likely have very little debt no matter what school I go to (dead grandparents bonds ftw). And I've already decided that i'm t-14 or bust. So I think I'm ok. But thanks for the quintessintial stupid argument that is "don't do something unless you woke up at 5 years old wanting to do it".

Did I say you had to wake up at 5 years old wanting to do it? I don't think I knew what a lawyer was at 5!

I said that if you, now, at this point in your life, are only working toward a JD for the money, the result will likely be misery, and perhaps more debt than "upward mobility of income." In light of your inheritance and T14 or bust mentality, I will drop the latter. But not the former. This is still a terrible way to make money.

By the way, I don't have anything against money being ones primary goal in life. That's fine. I'm just telling you to go to business school. More raw money will come of an MBA than a JD. Plus its easier schooling.

And I'm not trying to lecture you. It's your decision of course. I just don't find your "Lets not be naive..." comment to be good advice for others.

[TommyK]

When I was five, I wanted to be a dinosaur... I still kinda' do, actually.

[legalease9]

When I was five, I wanted to be a dinosaur... I still kinda' do, actually.

Hell yeah! That would be cool!

[HazelEyes]

More concerning: taking advice from someone with 4,000+ posts in 1 year.

[IAFG]

More concerning: taking advice from someone with 4,000+ posts in 1 year.

yeah i hate taking advice from people who know what they're talking about. takes the fun out of it.

[D. H2Oman]

More concerning: taking advice from someone with 4,000+ posts in 1 year.

+1, I have to wonder what exactly is going on in Romo's life? Does he have a job, any friends..... I mean it's getting a little bit ridiculous. Pretty sad

[Matteliszt]

Romo has an e-life and that is all that counts.

[HazelEyes]

More concerning: taking advice from someone with 4,000+ posts in 1 year.

yeah i hate taking advice from people who know what they're talking about. takes the fun out of it.

[romothesavior]

Mods please lock this thread. It has turned into a romo-bashing thread.

And ban waterman for the 50th time while you're at it.

[gdane]

Oh snap! I just realized your name is ROMO the savior. This whole time (since like December) I thought your name was ROMEO the savior. Now that I think about it, Romo makes more sense. Haha.

I wont bash you as a person, but I will bash Tony Romo as a quarterback. He sucks! To use TLS slang, he's so TTT. Haha. Not at the YHS level like Brett Favre and Peyton Manning.

[romothesavior]

Oh snap! I just realized your name is ROMO the savior. This whole time (since like December) I thought your name was ROMEO the savior. Now that I think about it, Romo makes more sense. Haha.

I wont bash you as a person, but I will bash Tony Romo as a quarterback. He sucks! To use TLS slang, he's so TTT. Haha. Not at the YHS level like Brett Favre and Peyton Manning.

Okay now this guy is definitely crossing the line! Mods? Lock? Or maybe one of your vodoo thread vanish moves?

[Patriot1208]

C'mon, lets not be so naive and think that this isn't the majority of peoples motivation...

Very few people just LOVE the law. I could get a SA position with my federal agency almost for sure after undergrad (and for sure if I stayed and worked there during my masters), but I rather have more upward mobility in income.

You probably shouldn't go to law school. Well I will agree with you that there are a lot of people going to law school only to make money, there are also a lot of miserable lawyers. This is why. Besides, as many will attest, Law is a terrible way to make money anyway. Too much debt and lost income to justify it. Even if you do get rich, you won't be happy working big law if you don't want to be do law!

OP, you too shouldn't go to law school if money is your primary concern. There are other ways to get out of debt, including getting a full time job (you have to be working part time to be pulling in 13k). You are young with no kids (right...?) so you will be fine. Have you considered a teaching certificate? Don't throw away three years of your life to something that doesn't interest you on the promise of riches.

Well, I want to do something related to the legal system for sure, I don't mind working long hours (the SA's in at my agency work 60 hours a week for sure), and I should likely have very little debt no matter what school I go to (dead grandparents bonds ftw). And I've already decided that i'm t-14 or bust. So I think I'm ok. But thanks for the quintessintial stupid argument that is "don't do something unless you woke up at 5 years old wanting to do it".

Did I say you had to wake up at 5 years old wanting to do it? I don't think I knew what a lawyer was at 5!

I said that if you, now, at this point in your life, are only working toward a JD for the money, the result will likely be misery, and perhaps more debt than "upward mobility of income." In light of your inheritance and T14 or bust mentality, I will drop the latter. But not the former. This is still a terrible way to make money.

By the way, I don't have anything against money being ones primary goal in life. That's fine. I'm just telling you to go to business school. More raw money will come of an MBA than a JD. Plus its easier schooling.

And I'm not trying to lecture you. It's your decision of course. I just don't find your "Lets not be naive..." comment to be good advice for others.

Ok, so I was a bit aggressive. Sorry for that. But I do often hear these arguments about if it's not for the love of the law it's not for you. I'm also not talking about getting rich, just about the ability to make more. Basically, where I work now, the SA's all will, at some point in their career, making around 100,000. Nothing more than that is guaranteed. And the max is around 150,000. This is very good money and I would be fine with that. But I would likely, at some point in my career as a lawyer, make more than 100,000. And the max earning potential is going to be higher than that. So if I like the jobs equal, it makes more sense to go to law school.

If all I cared about was money, I would work for my dad and take over his business when he retired. I would without a doubt make 200,000+ in salary for most of my life if I did that.

[IAFG]

More concerning: taking advice from someone with 4,000+ posts in 1 year.

yeah i hate taking advice from people who know what they're talking about. takes the fun out of it.

You've got neither