Which non t-14 school from this list would you choose? Forum

[nycparalegal]

If all you had were a choice between the following schools, which one would you choose:

University of Wisconsin Law - sticker
Brooklyn Law - $
University of Connecticut - $
University of Buffalo - $$

Background: You're a New York resident

You would probably go JAG, and then end up in the East Coast. You will get some money from Brooklyn and Connecticut, but still end end up close to over 100,000 in debt, while if you go with Buffalo you're total debt will probably be around 20 to 30k.

[vespertiliovir]

Where/what do you want to practice?

[rw2264]

if you're in nyc i'd pick brooklyn. make a bunch of connections while there. and if you're already a paralegal you can hold onto your job maybe while in law school.

[Vincent Vega]

Wisconsin, without hesitation. JAG is very competitive, so the better the school, the better your chances. Also, IMO, UW has been underranked lately. The other schools you listed were scrubs. If you had full rides at any of them, then sure. But not without significant money.

[OneKnight]

In NYC, BLS faces Fordham, NYU, and Columbia. The competition for jobs is stiff, to say the least. SUNY has similar problems.
Wisconsin and UCONN own their perspective states (Most Yalies end up elsewhere).
Go for one of the latter two, but Wisconsin has the leg up on all of them IMO.

Out of curiosity, did you apply to Fordham? If you are set on practicing in NYC but lack T-14 numbers, it's probably your best bet.

[Vincent Vega]

Also, people hate on the midwest. Madison is a really nice city, though. I have lived in a few different regions, and Madison is actually probably my favorite place I have lived (or at least sort of lived in). That might mean nothing to you, but it's my two cents.

[mallard]

Wisconsin. Pretty sure you can get in-state after a year there.

[nycparalegal]

I haven't heard back from any of the schools yet, but these are the most realistic choices for me (looking at LSN and $ awarded). I will probably be JAG before I start law school, so I don't have to worry about getting it later. I have been leaning towards Buffalo just because with some money, and the low COL I could end up paying a total of about 20k to 30k for the entire three years of law school. But, then again I do want a great education, and I guess you get what you pay for right?

[Vincent Vega]

Wisconsin. Pretty sure you can get in-state after a year there.

Wisconsin is one of the more difficult states in which to gain residency. They usually want you to establish WI as your home state for a year before enrolling in school.

[vespertiliovir]

If I were you, I'd go Wisconsin -- it always helps to have some mobility, in case plans change.

[im_blue]

I would choose Wisconsin since it at least dominates its own state.

[ToTransferOrNot]

To you folks saying Wisconsin dominates its home state:

That is true. Of course, the problem here is that the Wisconsin legal market is essentially non-existent. Foley is in something of a tailspin, and it is the only Vault firm with any offices in Wisconsin. 2 of the other larger Milwaukee firms cancelled their summer programs for this year, all the rest of the Milwaukee firms have TINY summer programs this year.

I transferred from U-Wisconsin to UChicago, after having grown up in Madison and having gone to UW-Milwaukee for undergrad, and I STILL couldn't get the time of day from a single Wisconsin firm. Other people in my class in similar circumstances had the same problem. Madison's legal market is tiny, even in the best of years.

Now, all of that said, Wisconsin is a great school, and I would be happy to answer any questions you have about it. However, I would honestly be kind of hesitant about paying sticker for it. As for getting in-state tuition: almost certainly not going to happen. They don't give in-state to people who moved to Wisconsin for educational purposes, even if you argue that you have every intention to stay. Even buying a house in the state isn't enough. Even establishing residency for one year before you attend isn't always enough (though it normally is)--those situations are evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

The serious problems with the Milwaukee legal market aren't going to continue to be as bad as they were this year, but one must understand that the Milwaukee market was severely impacted when Heller Ehrman blew up. Add the fact that Foley & Lardner is really hurting, as is Quarles & Brady, and you have a situation that isn't exactly promising. As for mobility--even in the best of years, you're talking top 10-15% to get out to the coasts, unless you have connections.

[Alyosha]

ToTransfer,

How do you find this type of information for firms in a different state (whether they cancelled summer classes/are in a "tailspin")? Is it on martindale or nalp? I assume the firms don't really want to publish the information. Would career services have it?

Thanks, hope I don't derail the thread too much.

OP, would going to Buffalo limit you to opportunities in upstate NY, even if you get JAG?

[ToTransferOrNot]

Er, the firms aren't in a different state. I was talking about the legal market in Milwaukee and Madison, WI, which is where I grew up, and did my first year of law school. I applied extensively to all of the major firms in Madison/Milwaukee, for both 1L and 2L summers. Your question confuses me.

I don't know whether this kind of information is widely available. The NALP forms list summer class size, but they don't accurately reflect this or future years, as no one knows how extensively/when SA programs are going to rebound. As for firm financial problems, a lot of that type of information is gleaned from inside information that finds its way on to things like AutoAdmit.

The fact that Q&B cancelled its summer program was pretty widely known. My knowledge of the other summer programs is gleaned from a combination of people I know in the legal market in Milwaukee, etc. Foley's problems are well-documented. The fact that H.E.'s collapse inundated the Milwaukee market is just an inference--H.E. was one of the biggest law firms in Wisconsin (not based here, but the Milwaukee office was the second-largest law office in Wisconsin, only short of Foley, if I remember correctly.)

Not trying to be snarky, just trying to clear up any misunderstanding.

[Alyosha]

Oh I'm sorry, I guess that wasn't very clear. I was just wondering if there was some other way to research firms in my state (a different state) to find out about summer class size reductions/firm economic health. Your post helped a lot.

[nycparalegal]

Okay, what about Buffalo full ride vs Wisconsin sticker?

[09042014]

I would choose Wisconsin since it at least dominates its own state.

+1

And Wisconsin is a nice state.

[fonzerelli]

Worth noting that if you want to later practice in WI - you don't have to take the bar.

[rocross1]

Is Wisconsin as ballin as it seems, I didn't apply but it seems like an awesome place to be? It has a great rep in terms of social scene, college town, and partying.

[fonzerelli]

Is Wisconsin as ballin as it seems, I didn't apply but it seems like an awesome place to be? It has a great rep in terms of social scene, college town, and partying.

I don't understand this sentence.

[OnWisconsin]

Is Wisconsin as ballin as it seems, I didn't apply but it seems like an awesome place to be? It has a great rep in terms of social scene, college town, and partying.

Having gone there for UG I can attest that yes, it is "ballin". However if this element is a key criteria for deciding upon law schools perhaps Madison is not the right place.