Will Lawyers' Employment Prospects Ever Pick Up? Forum

[Stinson]

Law firm hiring isn't really THAT much different than it was during boom times. Only now the shitty market of the market hits students who go to elite schools so the WSJ gives a shit enough to write about it.

Shitlaw wasn't born in 2008. Everyone other than top students at T1 schools, have always had dogshit returns on investments for law.

There are way too many law grads for the number of jobs the economy has. It's been that way for a very long time, and untill law schools close en masse, it'll stay that way.

I think this is key. The private market hasn't changed tremendously if you view a period of a few years right before the crash as a bubble-fed illusion, rather than "normal." We have way, way, way, way too many schools, most of which cost way too much. That's it. Case closed. We can talk about jobs, or we can talk about the fact that we have a ludicrously large number of law graduates that no conceivable legal market could absorb. Even 2007-8 level hiring would leave debt-ridden misery at dozens of schools, but it would be gangbusters at the T20 again, which is all NYT/WSJ would notice.

People are right about government hiring though. I don't see that going anywhere soon. A long period of Democratic government - House and Senate, not just Hillary - might move the meter, but many local governments will be strapped for a long time regardless and that's going to kill opportunities for things like state/local prosecuting/government positions that have, in the past, given opportunities to people with demonstrated interest and experience rather than prestige and grades.

[09042014]

Law firm hiring isn't really THAT much different than it was during boom times. Only now the shitty market of the market hits students who go to elite schools so the WSJ gives a shit enough to write about it.

Shitlaw wasn't born in 2008. Everyone other than top students at T1 schools, have always had dogshit returns on investments for law.

There are way too many law grads for the number of jobs the economy has. It's been that way for a very long time, and untill law schools close en masse, it'll stay that way.

I think this is key. The private market hasn't changed tremendously if you view a period of a few years right before the crash as a bubble-fed illusion, rather than "normal." We have way, way, way, way too many schools, most of which cost way too much. That's it. Case closed. We can talk about jobs, or we can talk about the fact that we have a ludicrously large number of law graduates that no conceivable legal market could absorb. Even 2007-8 level hiring would leave debt-ridden misery at dozens of schools, but it would be gangbusters at the T20 again, which is all NYT/WSJ would notice.

People are right about government hiring though. I don't see that going anywhere soon. A long period of Democratic government - House and Senate, not just Hillary - might move the meter, but many local governments will be strapped for a long time regardless and that's going to kill opportunities for things like state/local prosecuting/government positions that have, in the past, given opportunities to people with demonstrated interest and experience rather than prestige and grades.

I think gov might bounce back with a Republican president oddly enough. They don't really give a fuck about spending.

[stillwater]

Law firm hiring isn't really THAT much different than it was during boom times. Only now the shitty market of the market hits students who go to elite schools so the WSJ gives a shit enough to write about it.

Shitlaw wasn't born in 2008. Everyone other than top students at T1 schools, have always had dogshit returns on investments for law.

There are way too many law grads for the number of jobs the economy has. It's been that way for a very long time, and untill law schools close en masse, it'll stay that way.

I think this is key. The private market hasn't changed tremendously if you view a period of a few years right before the crash as a bubble-fed illusion, rather than "normal." We have way, way, way, way too many schools, most of which cost way too much. That's it. Case closed. We can talk about jobs, or we can talk about the fact that we have a ludicrously large number of law graduates that no conceivable legal market could absorb. Even 2007-8 level hiring would leave debt-ridden misery at dozens of schools, but it would be gangbusters at the T20 again, which is all NYT/WSJ would notice.

People are right about government hiring though. I don't see that going anywhere soon. A long period of Democratic government - House and Senate, not just Hillary - might move the meter, but many local governments will be strapped for a long time regardless and that's going to kill opportunities for things like state/local prosecuting/government positions that have, in the past, given opportunities to people with demonstrated interest and experience rather than prestige and grades.

I think gov might bounce back with a Republican president oddly enough. They don't really give a fuck about spending.

dat deficit spending.

[scifiguy]

Not necessarily representative of the whole biglaw community, but ATL had this piece recently:
http://abovethelaw.com/2013/07/nationwi ... t-layoffs/
Nationwide Layoff Watch

There are separate stories for WilmerHale and WeilGotshal.