Is the issue ITT really as fucking stupid as what I've been mocking? That we should reduce the # of law schools simply because then a higher pct of grads would have law jobs?JamMasterJ wrote:that may be a side effect, but I don't think that that's the main point at issue.laxbrah420 wrote:Is the argument here that potentially good lawyers are not entering law school anymore because of the grim propects? Do we have evidence to suggest that the quality of lawyers in our country has suffered as a result of over enrollment?
Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible Forum
- laxbrah420
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:53 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
- Ohiobumpkin
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
I don't know the math, but with the exception of some regionally strong tier-3+4, I would say cut all other t-3+4 and keep the rest. It is schools who have no regional placement who need to be cut. Schools like LS of Maine or North Dakota should be kept for regional significance, but all others should be cut for trying to scam students.
- Broseidon
- Posts: 2627
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:35 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Hence why an arbitrary number of law schools is retarded. Reducing the number of law schools is necessary. But it's a process that needs a scalpel, not a cleaver.
- JamMasterJ
- Posts: 6649
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
exactlyBroseidon wrote:Hence why an arbitrary number of law schools is retarded. Reducing the number of law schools is necessary. But it's a process that needs a scalpel, not a cleaver.
- JamMasterJ
- Posts: 6649
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
I just wen through This list
I think we could reduce to 71 schools.
I think we could reduce to 71 schools.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- jkpolk
- Posts: 1236
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:44 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
- Broseidon
- Posts: 2627
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:35 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
That only worked because fewer people went to college. That would only exacerbate the problem.polkij333 wrote:Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
- RedBirds2011
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Broseidon wrote:That only worked because fewer people went to college.polkij333 wrote:Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
It seems to work for accounting ok. The problem right now is people graduate from college, have nothing else to do, so they think law school is a good thing to fall into. If it were a bachelors program, fewer people would "major" in law because it wouldnt be some fall back plan for them. They would just major in what interested them.
- laxbrah420
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:53 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
So you're saying make accreditation and bar passage harder, right? I really don't follow while yall think unemployment is a legitimate reason for blowing up law schools.tfleming09 wrote:JamMasterJ wrote:exactlyBroseidon wrote:Hence why an arbitrary number of law schools is retarded. Reducing the number of law schools is necessary. But it's a process that needs a scalpel, not a cleaver.
ETA: Should we crush the psychology, architecture, and Jewish Studies, too?
Last edited by laxbrah420 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- jkpolk
- Posts: 1236
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:44 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
we also could get rid of MDs and just let the market weed out bad doctors, amirite?RedBirds2011 wrote:Broseidon wrote:That only worked because fewer people went to college.polkij333 wrote:Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
It seems to work for accounting ok. The problem right now is people graduate from college, have nothing else to do, so they think law school is a good thing to fall into. If it were a bachelors program, fewer people would "major" in law because it wouldnt be some fall back plan for them. They would just major in what interested them.
- RedBirds2011
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
polkij333 wrote:we also could get rid of MDs and just let the market weed out bad doctors, amirite?RedBirds2011 wrote:Broseidon wrote:That only worked because fewer people went to college.polkij333 wrote:Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
It seems to work for accounting ok. The problem right now is people graduate from college, have nothing else to do, so they think law school is a good thing to fall into. If it were a bachelors program, fewer people would "major" in law because it wouldnt be some fall back plan for them. They would just major in what interested them.
Lol no. Although I have had physicians tell me IRL that he first two years of med school are kind of a waste of time.
- laxbrah420
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:53 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
I mean --this is why I asked if the sentiment in this thread was that the quality of lawyers in this country has suffered, but I was informed, no that's just merely a potential side effect. It's simply a, "DEYTUKARJOBS" threadpolkij333 wrote: we also could get rid of MDs and just let the market weed out bad doctors, amirite?
- laxbrah420
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:53 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
You're completely missing the point, bro. The free market is incapable of determining the quality of physicians, because, well, most patients don't know medicine.RedBirds2011 wrote: Lol no. Although I have had physicians tell me IRL that he first two years of med school are kind of a waste of time.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- RedBirds2011
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
laxbrah420 wrote:You're completely missing the point, bro. The free market is incapable of determining the quality of physicians, because, well, most patients don't know medicine.RedBirds2011 wrote: Lol no. Although I have had physicians tell me IRL that he first two years of med school are kind of a waste of time.
Was my point that the free market should? Im not sure what the point is. I used accounting (a profession) as an example to compare to law. Medicine is extremely different on multiple levels so it was a very weak attempt at an analogy by poli..we lol
- androstan
- Posts: 4633
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
0laxbrah420 wrote:So how many years of schooling in your expert, rational opinion, should the government blindly bankroll? Just K-12? K-Bach?androstan wrote:Any number/criterion/etc. you name will be close to arbitrary. Ficath is right, you cannot do this by fiat decree. The free market is a good model to start with, and sometimes works on its own, but usually works much better with some intelligent policies and legal control. When the government intervenes stupidly in the free market, it usually functions much, much worse. The government needs to behave like a rational actor. A rational actor does not lend unlimited supplies of money to individuals without even a cursory evaluation of the risk. That creates a bubble. Federal student loans need to be contingent on the institution's employment statistics and the students' ultimate ability to repay the loans. A rational risk-assessment needs to be performed, just as in any private company.
Also, we need rigid enforcement of transparency and honesty. Honesty in spirit, not merely technical truth.
Do those two things. Then, the right schools will close or cut enrollments.
- banjo
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
The ideal number of law schools is zero. Law should just be an undergraduate major like English or physics. College seniors would then compete for 2-year training contracts with firms, just as they do in the UK and Australia. If they don't get one, they move on to other careers without wasting three years of their lives
- Broseidon
- Posts: 2627
- Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:35 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Not really. The same type of people who graduate college and have nothing else to do are the same type of people who would be undecided with a major and would then proceed to major in law (for the same reasons they choose law school).RedBirds2011 wrote:Broseidon wrote:That only worked because fewer people went to college.polkij333 wrote:Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
It seems to work for accounting ok. The problem right now is people graduate from college, have nothing else to do, so they think law school is a good thing to fall into. If it were a bachelors program, fewer people would "major" in law because it wouldnt be some fall back plan for them. They would just major in what interested them.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- RedBirds2011
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Broseidon wrote:Not really. The same type of people who graduate college and have nothing else to do are the same type of people who would be undecided with a major and would then proceed to major in law.RedBirds2011 wrote:Broseidon wrote:That only worked because fewer people went to college.polkij333 wrote:Should go back to the system where a law degree wasnt always a graduate degree. Gimme a BA in law and lemme sit for dat bar exam.
It seems to work for accounting ok. The problem right now is people graduate from college, have nothing else to do, so they think law school is a good thing to fall into. If it were a bachelors program, fewer people would "major" in law because it wouldnt be some fall back plan for them. They would just major in what interested them.
Meh, maybe. I think if it were only a bachelors program, the allure of "the law" would definitely decrease. Instead of this prefftigious graduate school thing it would just be another focus to have in college.
- laxbrah420
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:53 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
The job performance of accountants is very easily verified. HTH
And LOL at the government abandoning primary education
ETA: You're now arguing that we need to do something to decrease the allure of being a lawyer?
And LOL at the government abandoning primary education
ETA: You're now arguing that we need to do something to decrease the allure of being a lawyer?
- RedBirds2011
- Posts: 623
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:26 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
laxbrah420 wrote:The job performance of accountants is very easily verified. HTH
And LOL at the government abandoning primary education
ETA: You're now arguing that we need to do something to decrease the allure of being a lawyer?
I dont get your point often lax lol I never said someone should actively TRY to decrease the allure. I just said that people more often than not look at "THE LAW" as this grand vocation and calling. They make it out to be this grand idol or something. Its just a fucking job lol
As a bachelors degree, like accounting, people would see it as less lay prefftigious.
Last edited by RedBirds2011 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- jkpolk
- Posts: 1236
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:44 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
the usofa wastes so much money on primary education for dem cretins, we should only have education for those who can afford it and spend the saved government money on bombs.laxbrah420 wrote:The job performance of accountants is very easily verified. HTH
And LOL at the government abandoning primary education
ETA: You're now arguing that we need to do something to decrease the allure of being a lawyer?
oh wait.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- androstan
- Posts: 4633
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Important word is important.androstan wrote:0laxbrah420 wrote:So how many years of schooling in your expert, rational opinion, should the government blindly bankroll? Just K-12? K-Bach?androstan wrote:Any number/criterion/etc. you name will be close to arbitrary. Ficath is right, you cannot do this by fiat decree. The free market is a good model to start with, and sometimes works on its own, but usually works much better with some intelligent policies and legal control. When the government intervenes stupidly in the free market, it usually functions much, much worse. The government needs to behave like a rational actor. A rational actor does not lend unlimited supplies of money to individuals without even a cursory evaluation of the risk. That creates a bubble. Federal student loans need to be contingent on the institution's employment statistics and the students' ultimate ability to repay the loans. A rational risk-assessment needs to be performed, just as in any private company.
Also, we need rigid enforcement of transparency and honesty. Honesty in spirit, not merely technical truth.
Do those two things. Then, the right schools will close or cut enrollments.
- BVest
- Posts: 7887
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
It's more economic than market control. While the LCME certainly has some limitations on expansion and strict rules for for initiating and running a training program, the ABA, also has its similar structure.swc65 wrote:Sorry the AAMC, really controls new schools and enrollment. I think, in 2005, they open the first new med school in 20 years!!BVest wrote:In what way do you think AMA, ADA, etc., are exempt from antitrust concerns. I can assure you that antitrust is the primary legal concern for large associations.swc65 wrote:I think this is key. If we capped # of schools, the remaining schools would just up their enrollment and it wouldn't change anything. Capping the number of graduates is def. antitrust territory (unless you're the AMA, ADA, etc)
I am not saying they are EXEMPT from antitrust concerns. Just that they seem to be more successful at controlling their market.
There are other factors too such as Congress limiting spending on medical residencies etc etc.
The difference is that the cost of establishing or expanding a program which meets the ABA's required educational structure is far, far lower than the cost of establishing the same for medicine. Further, the cost of education is far lower for law than medicine. The result is that law schools are established where students paying sticker are paying all of their expenses, plus some of those for their classmates; meanwhile medical students paying sticker are actually paying 1/2 to 1/3 of the annual expense to educate them, with schools scrambling for grants, fees, state funds, and other sources to pick up the rest.
Add to that the MAJOR differences in facility requirements between medical and law schools and the extended lead time to establish a medical school, and it's a no-brainer that a university seeking to expand its portfolio or a group seeking to start a school for scratch would favor law (and business) over medicine.
(BTW, the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board put out an excellent document on the cost of starting a new medical school a few years back. The six-year start-up costs, before taking their first class of 60 students, was estimated at $92million)
(BTW2, the other way for a university to expand their portfolio without establishing a new business/law/med school is to buy one, like Texas A&M did with Scott & White for Medicine, and like they just announced today with Texas Wesleyan for law. Given A&M's growing significance in Texas and it's demonstrated ability to improve, I would expect Texas Wesleyan to come crawling out of the 4th tier fairly quickly.)
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Mr. Pancakes
- Posts: 1230
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:11 pm
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
what's up, brothers?
- laxbrah420
- Posts: 2720
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:53 am
Re: Should the # of law schools be capped at 50 were it possible
Ya exactly --aptitude tests for all!androstan wrote:Important word is important.androstan wrote:0laxbrah420 wrote:So how many years of schooling in your expert, rational opinion, should the government blindly bankroll? Just K-12? K-Bach?androstan wrote:Any number/criterion/etc. you name will be close to arbitrary. Ficath is right, you cannot do this by fiat decree. The free market is a good model to start with, and sometimes works on its own, but usually works much better with some intelligent policies and legal control. When the government intervenes stupidly in the free market, it usually functions much, much worse. The government needs to behave like a rational actor. A rational actor does not lend unlimited supplies of money to individuals without even a cursory evaluation of the risk. That creates a bubble. Federal student loans need to be contingent on the institution's employment statistics and the students' ultimate ability to repay the loans. A rational risk-assessment needs to be performed, just as in any private company.
Also, we need rigid enforcement of transparency and honesty. Honesty in spirit, not merely technical truth.
Do those two things. Then, the right schools will close or cut enrollments.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login