how do you know if you have strong softs? Forum

[kalvano]

I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

Dude, reading comprehension...it's a good thing.

Lying and cheating is a good thing? Fascinating. I know several people who've tried it, out in the real world, hasn't worked so well for them.

[d34d9823]

I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

Dude, reading comprehension...it's a good thing.

Lying and cheating is a good thing? Fascinating. I know several people who've tried it, out in the real world, hasn't worked so well for them.

I rest my case.

[kalvano]

I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

Dude, reading comprehension...it's a good thing.

Lying and cheating is a good thing? Fascinating. I know several people who've tried it, out in the real world, hasn't worked so well for them.

I rest my case.

What, that you're a fucking idiot?

[procrastinator]

Congress = top
Congress =! success

[carvv]

How about working your ass off at two jobs for most of your life because you're trying to pull your family out of poverty? Is that a strong soft?

These discussions of softs have always struck a nerve with me because I feel like on top of all the work I'm doing I'm expected to be volunteering and taking parts in clubs and other such bullshit. There's just not enough time in my life.

K, done ranting.

[SaintClarence27]

How about working your ass off at two jobs for most of your life because you're trying to pull your family out of poverty? Is that a strong soft?

These discussions of softs have always struck a nerve with me because I feel like on top of all the work I'm doing I'm expected to be volunteering and taking parts in clubs and other such bullshit. There's just not enough time in my life.

K, done ranting.

It really doesn't matter. Unless there's something EXTREMELY unique about your circumstances, your numbers will dictate your cycle.

[inSouthAmerica]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/sport ... er.html?hp

best soft ever?

[KibblesAndVick]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/sport ... er.html?hp

best soft ever?

"Although Jordan is a typical eighth grader with floppy blond locks who forgets to shower and brush his teeth and who loves listening to Cali P and Jay-Z with friends..."

When that kids done picking the sand out of his vag he can come talk to Aron Ralston

[SaintClarence27]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/sport ... er.html?hp

best soft ever?

The guy that cut off his arm with a multitool has the best soft ever. Climbing Everest is nothing in comparison.

Edit:

When that kids done picking the sand out of his vag he can come talk to Aron Ralston

Crap.

[inSouthAmerica]

i think to have softs you must first be human. obviously the guy that sawed off his own arm is not human and in a different category.

[F458JE]

.

[kevin261186]

Use the plot of Forrest Gump as a guideline for writing your PS and you'll have great a great soft.

[kalvano]

I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

I enjoy how you have very little insight into how the real world works. I am not a lawyer, neither am I in law school yet, but I have worked directly alongside two excellent and well known lawyers. Not everything that goes on during a case is ethical.

As you like it. I know that graduating, holding down a job, making a mortgage, car payments, getting married, none of that really qualifies as understanding the real world. But, growing up with lawyers in the family and knowing more lawyers by the time I was 6 than you'll know in your life, I think I can speak pretty well on what makes a good lawyer and what doesn't.

So, as I said, I enjoy the idiotic rantings from people with no fucking clue.

[SaintClarence27]

I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

I enjoy how you have very little insight into how the real world works. I am not a lawyer, neither am I in law school yet, but I have worked directly alongside two excellent and well known lawyers. Not everything that goes on during a case is ethical.

As you like it. I know that graduating, holding down a job, making a mortgage, car payments, getting married, none of that really qualifies as understanding the real world. But, growing up with lawyers in the family and knowing more lawyers by the time I was 6 than you'll know in your life, I think I can speak pretty well on what makes a good lawyer and what doesn't.

So, as I said, I enjoy the idiotic rantings from people with no fucking clue.

Aside from you being right, what strikes me as funny is the idea that he's defending lying on your resume to get into a better school. Even if "Not everything that goes on during a case is ethical," this is a huge screw up. It could keep you from being admitted to the bar - and it's not like they don't check up on these things. It would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, at least partially because it wouldn't even help you. Your numbers would *still* dictate your cycle.

[LawandOrder]

I founded a country once.

Lol that thread was hilarious:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =9&t=73823

[Sias]

Living abroad for a few years is one of the few softs that's both "strong" and actually somewhat common. I'm not talking about studying abroad for a year, but living in another country for 2+ years so that you can also list being somewhat proficient in another language.

Otherwise, softs are almost always weak. A lot of people come here thinking that community service, athletics, or a "special" background (I quotation because these are almost always just an overly dramatized sob story about a person's upbringing) are strong. They aren't. This stuff is filler and will buff an application sure, but it won't compensate for below median numbers like a "strong" soft might.

This makes no sense. The OP wants to know what's average, what's above average, what's below average. By definition, the vast majority of applicants can't be below average. They're average. I'd guess "average" in the overall applicant pool means some club memberships, maybe a leadership position or two, an internship or two and probably some half-assed volunteer work.

Maybe you do have to be really outstanding to outperform your numbers, but you're pretty well guaranteed to underperform if you haven't done anything.

I never mentioned an average nor did I suggest that softs are measured on some sort of curve, which is the idea that you seem to be massaging right now. The term "weak" was correctly used to indicate that most softs lack potency or efficacy with regard to one's application. This is a numbers game, and an applicant with a 178/4.0 will still be a 178/4.0 if he or she never volunteered or played sports or traveled abroad while in college.

Similarly, someone with a 155/2.5 might think he or she has excellent softs because they interned for a Congressman for a year, but no school is going to look very far beyond those numbers. Why, you ask? Because those numbers: A) potentially hurt the school's desired medians and, by extension, rank; B) indicate that the individual probably doesn't have the mental acuity or, at the very least, the work ethic to succeed in law school; and C) that many unsuccessful law students tend to reflect poorly on the school they attended.

Now the above example could be used with an applicant whose numbers are about median, in which case softs might play a role in said applicant being granted admission. However, even in less extreme circumstances, softs really won't be considered until numbers have been accounted for (i.e. school's reaching their medians; sometimes they prefer high-LSAT splitters over a strong, well-rounded candidate to reach these goals), and demographics have been accounted for (race, ethnicity, location, age).

So yes, softs are almost always weak and shouldn't be expected to do much for an application. Good to have--no doubt about that--but ultimately of small consequence.

You might ask, "But then what would be a 'strong' soft which might prompt an adcomm committee to overlook a weak LSAT/GPA?" Examples might include patenting an invention or publishing a novel. They don't have to be particularly grand or exciting (otherwise why are you applying to law school if you're a successful novelist?), but by virtue of the accomplishment itself the committee might think "here's someone with drive or a desire to achieve. Even if he or she doesn't go into a legal career, there might be a potential notable alumni here," and schools love having famous alumni.

[Patriot1208]

I have a TS security clearance and have been working for the DOJ as an IA for two years while at a top university and traveling to the Dominican Republic/haiti for a total of four months over that time to do work with an orphanage/earthquake relief. Also i'm a student athlete.

And I think this means I have average softs or slightly above average.

[procrastinator]

Those seem pretty amazing to me, especially if there's a common theme. The TS isn't a soft, it's just a way to put the school at ease (although a TS is really probably less rigorous than some states' C&F)

[SaintClarence27]

I invented a time machine, went back, and killed Hitler. Also, I pushed Mehndellson, Curie, and Pasteur in the right direction.

Average softs.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Those seem pretty amazing to me, especially if there's a common theme. The TS isn't a soft, it's just a way to put the school at ease (although a TS is really probably less rigorous than some states' C&F)

Bwaaah? If you think a state bar even approaches the SSBI, you're smoking some good stuff (especially considering that the FBI is the keeper of that lovely "have you ever been arrested" data).

[clintonius]

You might ask, "But then what would be a 'strong' soft which might prompt an adcomm committee to overlook a weak LSAT/GPA?" Examples might include patenting an invention or publishing a novel. They don't have to be particularly grand or exciting (otherwise why are you applying to law school if you're a successful novelist?), but by virtue of the accomplishment itself the committee might think "here's someone with drive or a desire to achieve. Even if he or she doesn't go into a legal career, there might be a potential notable alumni here," and schools love having famous alumni.

Those are probably excellent softs. Another one is worth mentioning is a Rhodes Scholarship. That's among the best softs you can have, and from what I understand, comes about as close to guaranteeing you admission to Yale as anything will. Except being a legacy. But if you're a legacy your au pair probably told you all this already. Also, fuck you.

[procrastinator]

Those seem pretty amazing to me, especially if there's a common theme. The TS isn't a soft, it's just a way to put the school at ease (although a TS is really probably less rigorous than some states' C&F)

Bwaaah? If you think a state bar even approaches the SSBI, you're smoking some good stuff (especially considering that the FBI is the keeper of that lovely "have you ever been arrested" data).

Maybe a DoD TS is different, but the FBI isn't the agency that conducts them. Arrest records are not the issue. Besides, that was a half-joke.

[Matthies]

At my age having a good soft means I don't need to ask my doctor for viagra

[d34d9823]

At my age having a good soft means I don't need to ask my doctor for viagra

Matthies strikes again.

[CanadianWolf]

Strong softs might also include significant family ties to the law school; for example, you are applying to Washington & Lee and note that the school is named after your two great, great, great grandfathers.