Cardozo wait list. Help~~ Forum

[Clearly]

Thanks. Due to personal reasons, I've decided not to retake. Just let it slide and get the best of it.

This makes absolutely no sense. If your personal reasons won't keep you from enrolling in law school, they can't possibly prevent you from studying and succeeding on a 4 hour test.

Proceeding with your current LSAT is going to leave you in a baaaaaad situation, big time.

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents

Tell me again how you didn't tell/suggest the OP of the thread to go for it.

hmm thats reaching. i was talking about myself and i was addressing u and this whole LSAT retake situation.. i wasnt addressing op and his/her scenario...which is why i didnt mention ops prediciment or the school itself

wht i wrote basically was that i am much better off not focusing entirely on the lsat and i am trying to offset a potential scenario occuring by saving a lot of money and that i have no housng cost. bc of this i am without a doubt attending law school this year. this is the actually the exact opposite of op scenario...seemingly. i also tried to make it clear that this is my pov and im Not in LS and not a lawyer...so i am approaching this from a different angle...an angle of someone who is trying to make their dreams a pleasurable reality by not focusing on soley on the lsat.

this is y i put at the end my unwanted twocents bc i actually went on a tangent and didnt even address the op concenrs but addressed y people may not be so hell bent on retaking the lsat after a second time and how I am trying to offset not reaching above 170, by reducing the amount of loans i take out and saving across the board.

Amended accents to address "talking about myself".

but regardless, I'm not here to argue with you, and I appreciate your disclaimer that you're not a law student. Try to consider though that some of us have been active here for a long time and have seen how people behave with this info thousands of times. All it takes is one person to seemingly agree with an OP's terrible idea and they are off to the races, and judging by his reaction to your post, he's clearly taken your advice to disregard the LSAT and give it his best shot. Yet, even the queen of rainbows and glitter 0Ls (you) couldn't possibly have intentionally just encouraged a 0L with terrible options and no greencard to come to the USA to pay sticker to a shitty school, when even if he GETS a job, the greencard is going to cause huge problems. You clarified later that you would never do what you accidentally encouraged him to do, but alas he isn't here to read it. TLS doesn't sugar coat things, because the actual situation is really really serious, and if you leave things open ended or spread "it'll all work out" nonsense, confirmation bias will lead them to latch on to that and execute egregiously dumb plans. You keep posting this "it'll all work out" crap all the time when these threads come up, but you never actually support how it will happen, and it flies in the face of the data showing 50% unemployment at these schools. You always suggest that everything is going to work out for you without retaking, but you never seem to mention any smart moves your making like saving money, or that you yourself would never go to the schools in question until its too late. I can tell you're more conservative and debt-averse than your posting style lets on (thats why you're saving up and minimizing debt etc) but it doesn't come across in your posts and as a result you're constantly supporting really shitty moves for people. So I'm asking you nicely to please stop encouraging people to do really shitty things because you're afraid of retaking and you've convinced yourself it'll all be fine regardless. I know plenty of in debt unemployed lawyers and its a really shitty thing to observe and here you are telling people to just go for it!

[lillawyer2]

It really makes sense. I sincerely appreciate your advice. I spent the last 8 months working on LSAT with a full-time job. I took twice in Oct and Dec, and I was desperate and frustrated when the result came out. To conquer this test, I sacrificed friendship, health, and countless stuff which I could have done. Yes, I'm fascinated by big firm, high salary,decent life. But life is too short to spend your time on a test. There are more to be discovered that I don't want to miss.[/quote]

You're not going to find those things paying 300,000 USD for a legal education that will lead almost certainly to a 40k a year income or unemployment.[/quote]

I agree, but if the OP feels he/she can't devote more time...as life can force those constraints, then there is no point in taking it over. Life is too short to be focused on perfecting something that does not determine the outcome of your career. Yes, the LSAT is a factor in determining what law school you go to and what law school you go to can surely effect your career prospects, but in the long run I'm not too sure it determines the outcome of one's career, as many variables come into play and it is a case by case basis. The OP may land something or have something in the cards. No one knows what life has in store and no amount of calculating and perfecting is going to guarantee anything but taking time away from other important ventures.

I am not a lawyer or in law school. I am applying this cycle. However, I have wasted a lot of time second guessing myself...worrying over things that in the long run don't matter. It's all a distraction/devil on your shoulder type crap. Go for it...and do the best that you can. Not everyone is going to break that 170 range...the test is designed to prevent that. Evaluate your risks and sometimes it makes sense to take a leap of faith. This cycle I am better prepared and that only happened because I stopped stressing over the LSAT. I stopped forcing something that may never come. I will take it one more time and evaluate my prospects...most likely no matter what I will go, because it is what I want. This year I focused on what I could perfect, which is lowering my potential debt by saving lots of money...so the risks won't hurt too much in a worse case scenario.

Just my unwanted 2cents [/quote]

Tell me again how you didn't tell/suggest the OP of the thread to go for it.[/quote]


hmm thats reaching. i was talking about myself and i was addressing u and this whole LSAT retake situation.. i wasnt addressing op and his/her scenario...which is why i didnt mention ops prediciment or the school itself

wht i wrote basically was that i am much better off not focusing entirely on the lsat and i am trying to offset a potential scenario occuring by saving a lot of money and that i have no housng cost. bc of this i am without a doubt attending law school this year. this is the actually the exact opposite of op scenario...seemingly. i also tried to make it clear that this is my pov and im Not in LS and not a lawyer...so i am approaching this from a different angle...an angle of someone who is trying to make their dreams a pleasurable reality by not focusing on soley on the lsat.

this is y i put at the end my unwanted twocents bc i actually went on a tangent and didnt even address the op concenrs but addressed y people may not be so hell bent on retaking the lsat after a second time and how I am trying to offset not reaching above 170, by reducing the amount of loans i take out and saving across the board.[/quote]
Amended accents to address "talking about myself".

but regardless, I'm not here to argue with you, and I appreciate your disclaimer that you're not a law student. Try to consider though that some of us have been active here for a long time and have seen how people behave with this info thousands of times. All it takes is one person to seemingly agree with an OP's terrible idea and they are off to the races, and judging by his reaction to your post, he's clearly taken your advice to disregard the LSAT and give it his best shot. Yet, even the queen of rainbows and glitter 0Ls (you) couldn't possibly have intentionally just encouraged a 0L with terrible options and no greencard to come to the USA to pay sticker to a shitty school, when even if he GETS a job, the greencard is going to cause huge problems. You clarified later that you would never do what you accidentally encouraged him to do, but alas he isn't here to read it. TLS doesn't sugar coat things, because the actual situation is really really serious, and if you leave things open ended or spread "it'll all work out" nonsense, confirmation bias will lead them to latch on to that and execute egregiously dumb plans. You keep posting this "it'll all work out" crap all the time when these threads come up, but you never actually support how it will happen, and it flies in the face of the data showing 50% unemployment at these schools. You always suggest that everything is going to work out for you without retaking, but you never seem to mention any smart moves your making like saving money, or that you yourself would never go to the schools in question until its too late. I can tell you're more conservative and debt-averse than your posting style lets on (thats why you're saving up and minimizing debt etc) but it doesn't come across in your posts and as a result you're constantly supporting really shitty moves for people. So I'm asking you nicely to please stop encouraging people to do really shitty things because you're afraid of retaking and you've convinced yourself it'll all be fine regardless. I know plenty of in debt unemployed lawyers and its a really shitty thing to observe and here you are telling people to just go for it![/quote]


i wont argue.. it makes no sense..i try to keep it light and friendly bc i appreciate tls

i respect tls. i truly do and have been around longer than my user date suggest.

however, i will try to write this to come off as non threatening/disrespectful as possible. never, not even once take ur advice/opinions you give strangers with a grain of salt when it comes to effecting or influencing the outcome of their decisions. it is advice...it is perspective...it is insight and information...what it is not is not putting guns to temples and forcing people to take the direction you tell them too..

the op is doing wht they want to do. i didnt convince him of anything. he wants this. he truly does. he was going to do it regardless of what u said and what i said. if u think for a second that me, a stranger on the interent who gace an obsure opinion about myself in addressing you and your comments not even acknowledging op..was what gave op the deciding factor in their decision then u r giving me waay too much credit..im actually almost honored if u think im that influential on people i dont know through the internet

he liked my post bc i came at a different angle. i discussed my situation. how i let fear get the best of what little control of a situation i had and how that crippled me when it came to understanding the reality of my situation. i only got clarity when i realized the resources i had at my disposal how i can maneuver.

op may have resignated with that and thats fine. he didnt resignate with anything or most things anyone else had fo say bc honestly that retake or die shit dont sit well with most and the lsat pedestal is quite nauseating regardless of how accurate u feel it is. sometimes people want ot hear something else...i mean we all get like that

op wasnt going to listen to u maybe bc he didnt agree with what u wrote, but that has nothing to do with me. the op didnt want to retake. the op found solace in the fact that not everyone is retake obsessed. i told him nothing and gave him no personal advice. i told u how i felt about that constant retake business and how there is more than one approach to a successful law career and that we do not know the outcome of ones career based on law school or lsat we just dont.. all we can do is speculate based on past failures and successes and all that constant paranoia, concern and anxiety that brings is for the birds is my opinion.

u take the lsat in the hopes u get the best score possible...as long as u gave it ur all and took it as many times u felt it necessary than that is all one can ask of u...now in my opinion for myself i would feel its time to move on. i work with what i got and maximize my chances through other ways.

[sd5289]

i wont argue.. it makes no sense..i try to keep it light and friendly bc i appreciate tls

i respect tls. i truly do and have been around longer than my user date suggest.

however, i will try to write this to come off as non threatening/disrespectful as possible. never, not even once take ur advice/opinions you give strangers with a grain of salt when it comes to effecting or influencing the outcome of their decisions. it is advice...it is perspective...it is insight and information...what it is not is not putting guns to temples and forcing people to take the direction you tell them too..

You're ignoring what he's talking about above, which is the problem of confirmation bias that often occurs when someone comes on here with this exact scenario and is looking for someone...anyone to confirm that they should go ahead. You gave that to the OP whether you intended to or not. Furthermore, you provided such with zero experience as a law student and/or a lawyer, which is especially problematic given that all of us who are law students/lawyers are saying "don't do it."

the op is doing wht they want to do. i didnt convince him of anything. he wants this. he truly does. he was going to do it regardless of what u said and what i said. if u think for a second that me, a stranger on the interent who gace an obsure opinion about myself in addressing you and your comments not even acknowledging op..was what gave op the deciding factor in their decision then u r giving me waay too much credit..im actually almost honored if u think im that influential on people i dont know through the internet

This is, IMO, why there is a TLS tone that may be a little harsh because we already know that what I've bolded in the above quote is true and we're wasting our time. This is not a "I'm just below HYS, should I retake or take my full ride at CNN" type post. This is "I'm WL at Cardozo and even if I get in, it will be with no scholarship" post.

I'll reiterate that I graduated from Cardozo. Given what I wanted to do, I didn't need a T-14 to do it (my career field emphasizes doing well at whatever school you're at + WE + demonstrated commitment to the field). That gave me some room to maneuver in. Today I have a FTLT job that I love. I have a little bit of debt (law school and UG combined), but I am nowhere near the position that many of my classmates are in. I'm extremely grateful for the emphasis TLS put on nailing the LSAT, which helped me negotiate into a full ride at a regional school in a lot more competitive law school environment than currently exists. Cardozo tuned out extremely well for me, but it was because I aggressively negotiated scholarships and schools against each other to get the best outcome. The only reason I could do that was because I had a high enough LSAT to do so.

op may have resignated with that and thats fine. he didnt resignate with anything or most things anyone else had fo say bc honestly that retake or die shit dont sit well with most and the lsat pedestal is quite nauseating regardless of how accurate u feel it is. sometimes people want ot hear something else...i mean we all get like that

op wasnt going to listen to u maybe bc he didnt agree with what u wrote, but that has nothing to do with me. the op didnt want to retake. the op found solace in the fact that not everyone is retake obsessed. i told him nothing and gave him no personal advice. i told u how i felt about that constant retake business and how there is more than one approach to a successful law career and that we do not know the outcome of ones career based on law school or lsat we just dont.. all we can do is speculate based on past failures and successes and all that constant paranoia, concern and anxiety that brings is for the birds is my opinion.

u take the lsat in the hopes u get the best score possible...as long as u gave it ur all and took it as many times u felt it necessary than that is all one can ask of u...now in my opinion for myself i would feel its time to move on. i work with what i got and maximize my chances through other ways.

It doesn't matter if a person wants to hear "please tell me to jump off that bridge over yonder." We're not going to tell them to do it. Why? Because we recognize the incredibly significant odds that it could end in disaster. And not only that, a preventable disaster. You can learn to take the LSAT, just like you can learn how to answer the MBE questions on the bar exam. The main difference? There is no penalty to retaking the LSAT. If you have to retake the bar exam, there are all kinds of collateral consequences, and that's AFTER you've sunk $300K into your education.

Retake the LSAT. And in the meantime, develop good WE and life experience while you study for it and take it. The other advantage I had going into Cardozo was that I had some solid WE, which was the main topic of conversations for my 1L and 2L summer jobs, as well as clinics, etc. It's not like the time you take to put yourself into a solid position to apply to law school is just wasted time.

ETA: even if the OP has checked out of this thread, there are still plenty of others reading it. That's is partially why we (at least I) continue to respond to this.

[lillawyer2]

i wont argue.. it makes no sense..i try to keep it light and friendly bc i appreciate tls

i respect tls. i truly do and have been around longer than my user date suggest.

however, i will try to write this to come off as non threatening/disrespectful as possible. never, not even once take ur advice/opinions you give strangers with a grain of salt when it comes to effecting or influencing the outcome of their decisions. it is advice...it is perspective...it is insight and information...what it is not is not putting guns to temples and forcing people to take the direction you tell them too..

You're ignoring what he's talking about above, which is the problem of confirmation bias that often occurs when someone comes on here with this exact scenario and is looking for someone...anyone to confirm that they should go ahead. You gave that to the OP whether you intended to or not. Furthermore, you provided such with zero experience as a law student and/or a lawyer, which is especially problematic given that all of us who are law students/lawyers are saying "don't do it."

the op is doing wht they want to do. i didnt convince him of anything. he wants this. he truly does. he was going to do it regardless of what u said and what i said. if u think for a second that me, a stranger on the interent who gace an obsure opinion about myself in addressing you and your comments not even acknowledging op..was what gave op the deciding factor in their decision then u r giving me waay too much credit..im actually almost honored if u think im that influential on people i dont know through the internet

This is, IMO, why there is a TLS tone that may be a little harsh because we already know that what I've bolded in the above quote is true and we're wasting our time. This is not a "I'm just below HYS, should I retake or take my full ride at CNN" type post. This is "I'm WL at Cardozo and even if I get in, it will be with no scholarship" post.

I'll reiterate that I graduated from Cardozo. Given what I wanted to do, I didn't need a T-14 to do it (my career field emphasizes doing well at whatever school you're at + WE + demonstrated commitment to the field). That gave me some room to maneuver in. Today I have a FTLT job that I love. I have a little bit of debt (law school and UG combined), but I am nowhere near the position that many of my classmates are in. I'm extremely grateful for the emphasis TLS put on nailing the LSAT, which helped me negotiate into a full ride at a regional school in a lot more competitive law school environment than currently exists. Cardozo tuned out extremely well for me, but it was because I aggressively negotiated scholarships and schools against each other to get the best outcome. The only reason I could do that was because I had a high enough LSAT to do so.

op may have resignated with that and thats fine. he didnt resignate with anything or most things anyone else had fo say bc honestly that retake or die shit dont sit well with most and the lsat pedestal is quite nauseating regardless of how accurate u feel it is. sometimes people want ot hear something else...i mean we all get like that

op wasnt going to listen to u maybe bc he didnt agree with what u wrote, but that has nothing to do with me. the op didnt want to retake. the op found solace in the fact that not everyone is retake obsessed. i told him nothing and gave him no personal advice. i told u how i felt about that constant retake business and how there is more than one approach to a successful law career and that we do not know the outcome of ones career based on law school or lsat we just dont.. all we can do is speculate based on past failures and successes and all that constant paranoia, concern and anxiety that brings is for the birds is my opinion.

u take the lsat in the hopes u get the best score possible...as long as u gave it ur all and took it as many times u felt it necessary than that is all one can ask of u...now in my opinion for myself i would feel its time to move on. i work with what i got and maximize my chances through other ways.

It doesn't matter if a person wants to hear "please tell me to jump off that bridge over yonder." We're not going to tell them to do it. Why? Because we recognize the incredibly significant odds that it could end in disaster. And not only that, a preventable disaster. You can learn to take the LSAT, just like you can learn how to answer the MBE questions on the bar exam. The main difference? There is no penalty to retaking the LSAT. If you have to retake the bar exam, there are all kinds of collateral consequences, and that's AFTER you've sunk $300K into your education.

Retake the LSAT. And in the meantime, develop good WE and life experience while you study for it and take it. The other advantage I had going into Cardozo was that I had some solid WE, which was the main topic of conversations for my 1L and 2L summer jobs, as well as clinics, etc. It's not like the time you take to put yourself into a solid position to apply to law school is just wasted time.

ETA: even if the OP has checked out of this thread, there are still plenty of others reading it. That's is partially why we (at least I) continue to respond to this.

already made it clear i was neither a lawyer or a law student in the first post i made so people can take from my perspective whatever they wish. I didn't hide anything. So anyone's choice to bring greater attention to my post than what it deserves is on them. OP or anyone with common sense or going to be a lawyer should not just take my perspective and run with it, especially as a deciding factor in their decision!

You assume that because op is not responding that he took my advice and is now waiting to accept 300k in debt, reaching much?

He could be, you know living life, found some hobbies, making even said fuck law school all together.



to take my post serious enough to apply it as a deciding or even crucial factor in one's life decisions is giving me way too much credit and doesn't make any sense.

[A@M_or_bust]

i wont argue.. it makes no sense..i try to keep it light and friendly bc i appreciate tls

i respect tls. i truly do and have been around longer than my user date suggest.

however, i will try to write this to come off as non threatening/disrespectful as possible. never, not even once take ur advice/opinions you give strangers with a grain of salt when it comes to effecting or influencing the outcome of their decisions. it is advice...it is perspective...it is insight and information...what it is not is not putting guns to temples and forcing people to take the direction you tell them too..

You're ignoring what he's talking about above, which is the problem of confirmation bias that often occurs when someone comes on here with this exact scenario and is looking for someone...anyone to confirm that they should go ahead. You gave that to the OP whether you intended to or not. Furthermore, you provided such with zero experience as a law student and/or a lawyer, which is especially problematic given that all of us who are law students/lawyers are saying "don't do it."

the op is doing wht they want to do. i didnt convince him of anything. he wants this. he truly does. he was going to do it regardless of what u said and what i said. if u think for a second that me, a stranger on the interent who gace an obsure opinion about myself in addressing you and your comments not even acknowledging op..was what gave op the deciding factor in their decision then u r giving me waay too much credit..im actually almost honored if u think im that influential on people i dont know through the internet

This is, IMO, why there is a TLS tone that may be a little harsh because we already know that what I've bolded in the above quote is true and we're wasting our time. This is not a "I'm just below HYS, should I retake or take my full ride at CNN" type post. This is "I'm WL at Cardozo and even if I get in, it will be with no scholarship" post.

I'll reiterate that I graduated from Cardozo. Given what I wanted to do, I didn't need a T-14 to do it (my career field emphasizes doing well at whatever school you're at + WE + demonstrated commitment to the field). That gave me some room to maneuver in. Today I have a FTLT job that I love. I have a little bit of debt (law school and UG combined), but I am nowhere near the position that many of my classmates are in. I'm extremely grateful for the emphasis TLS put on nailing the LSAT, which helped me negotiate into a full ride at a regional school in a lot more competitive law school environment than currently exists. Cardozo tuned out extremely well for me, but it was because I aggressively negotiated scholarships and schools against each other to get the best outcome. The only reason I could do that was because I had a high enough LSAT to do so.

op may have resignated with that and thats fine. he didnt resignate with anything or most things anyone else had fo say bc honestly that retake or die shit dont sit well with most and the lsat pedestal is quite nauseating regardless of how accurate u feel it is. sometimes people want ot hear something else...i mean we all get like that

op wasnt going to listen to u maybe bc he didnt agree with what u wrote, but that has nothing to do with me. the op didnt want to retake. the op found solace in the fact that not everyone is retake obsessed. i told him nothing and gave him no personal advice. i told u how i felt about that constant retake business and how there is more than one approach to a successful law career and that we do not know the outcome of ones career based on law school or lsat we just dont.. all we can do is speculate based on past failures and successes and all that constant paranoia, concern and anxiety that brings is for the birds is my opinion.

u take the lsat in the hopes u get the best score possible...as long as u gave it ur all and took it as many times u felt it necessary than that is all one can ask of u...now in my opinion for myself i would feel its time to move on. i work with what i got and maximize my chances through other ways.

It doesn't matter if a person wants to hear "please tell me to jump off that bridge over yonder." We're not going to tell them to do it. Why? Because we recognize the incredibly significant odds that it could end in disaster. And not only that, a preventable disaster. You can learn to take the LSAT, just like you can learn how to answer the MBE questions on the bar exam. The main difference? There is no penalty to retaking the LSAT. If you have to retake the bar exam, there are all kinds of collateral consequences, and that's AFTER you've sunk $300K into your education.

Retake the LSAT. And in the meantime, develop good WE and life experience while you study for it and take it. The other advantage I had going into Cardozo was that I had some solid WE, which was the main topic of conversations for my 1L and 2L summer jobs, as well as clinics, etc. It's not like the time you take to put yourself into a solid position to apply to law school is just wasted time.

ETA: even if the OP has checked out of this thread, there are still plenty of others reading it. That's is partially why we (at least I) continue to respond to this.

already made it clear i was neither a lawyer or a law student in the first post i made so people can take from my perspective whatever they wish. I didn't hide anything. So anyone's choice to bring greater attention to my post than what it deserves is on them. OP or anyone with common sense or going to be a lawyer should not just take my perspective and run with it, especially as a deciding factor in their decision!

You assume that because op is not responding that he took my advice and is now waiting to accept 300k in debt, reaching much?

He could be, you know living life, found some hobbies, making even said fuck law school all together.



to take my post serious enough to apply it as a deciding or even crucial factor in one's life decisions is giving me way too much credit and doesn't make any sense.

I feel compelled to chime in.

Obviously, the decision the OP makes is on him/her, and he/she would be silly to take one (self-admittedly unqualified) poster's advice. You shouldn't be criminally prosecuted for giving silly advice. However, perhaps you should reconsider giving advice on tls when it comes to pivotal posts like these, especially when just about everyone else (almost all of which are more qualified than you) is saying the opposite as you, since you are a 0L and seem to have a limited understanding of law school and the legal field (which is entirely understandable).

[lillawyer2]

i wont argue.. it makes no sense..i try to keep it light and friendly bc i appreciate tls

i respect tls. i truly do and have been around longer than my user date suggest.

however, i will try to write this to come off as non threatening/disrespectful as possible. never, not even once take ur advice/opinions you give strangers with a grain of salt when it comes to effecting or influencing the outcome of their decisions. it is advice...it is perspective...it is insight and information...what it is not is not putting guns to temples and forcing people to take the direction you tell them too..

You're ignoring what he's talking about above, which is the problem of confirmation bias that often occurs when someone comes on here with this exact scenario and is looking for someone...anyone to confirm that they should go ahead. You gave that to the OP whether you intended to or not. Furthermore, you provided such with zero experience as a law student and/or a lawyer, which is especially problematic given that all of us who are law students/lawyers are saying "don't do it."

the op is doing wht they want to do. i didnt convince him of anything. he wants this. he truly does. he was going to do it regardless of what u said and what i said. if u think for a second that me, a stranger on the interent who gace an obsure opinion about myself in addressing you and your comments not even acknowledging op..was what gave op the deciding factor in their decision then u r giving me waay too much credit..im actually almost honored if u think im that influential on people i dont know through the internet

This is, IMO, why there is a TLS tone that may be a little harsh because we already know that what I've bolded in the above quote is true and we're wasting our time. This is not a "I'm just below HYS, should I retake or take my full ride at CNN" type post. This is "I'm WL at Cardozo and even if I get in, it will be with no scholarship" post.

I'll reiterate that I graduated from Cardozo. Given what I wanted to do, I didn't need a T-14 to do it (my career field emphasizes doing well at whatever school you're at + WE + demonstrated commitment to the field). That gave me some room to maneuver in. Today I have a FTLT job that I love. I have a little bit of debt (law school and UG combined), but I am nowhere near the position that many of my classmates are in. I'm extremely grateful for the emphasis TLS put on nailing the LSAT, which helped me negotiate into a full ride at a regional school in a lot more competitive law school environment than currently exists. Cardozo tuned out extremely well for me, but it was because I aggressively negotiated scholarships and schools against each other to get the best outcome. The only reason I could do that was because I had a high enough LSAT to do so.

op may have resignated with that and thats fine. he didnt resignate with anything or most things anyone else had fo say bc honestly that retake or die shit dont sit well with most and the lsat pedestal is quite nauseating regardless of how accurate u feel it is. sometimes people want ot hear something else...i mean we all get like that

op wasnt going to listen to u maybe bc he didnt agree with what u wrote, but that has nothing to do with me. the op didnt want to retake. the op found solace in the fact that not everyone is retake obsessed. i told him nothing and gave him no personal advice. i told u how i felt about that constant retake business and how there is more than one approach to a successful law career and that we do not know the outcome of ones career based on law school or lsat we just dont.. all we can do is speculate based on past failures and successes and all that constant paranoia, concern and anxiety that brings is for the birds is my opinion.

u take the lsat in the hopes u get the best score possible...as long as u gave it ur all and took it as many times u felt it necessary than that is all one can ask of u...now in my opinion for myself i would feel its time to move on. i work with what i got and maximize my chances through other ways.

It doesn't matter if a person wants to hear "please tell me to jump off that bridge over yonder." We're not going to tell them to do it. Why? Because we recognize the incredibly significant odds that it could end in disaster. And not only that, a preventable disaster. You can learn to take the LSAT, just like you can learn how to answer the MBE questions on the bar exam. The main difference? There is no penalty to retaking the LSAT. If you have to retake the bar exam, there are all kinds of collateral consequences, and that's AFTER you've sunk $300K into your education.

Retake the LSAT. And in the meantime, develop good WE and life experience while you study for it and take it. The other advantage I had going into Cardozo was that I had some solid WE, which was the main topic of conversations for my 1L and 2L summer jobs, as well as clinics, etc. It's not like the time you take to put yourself into a solid position to apply to law school is just wasted time.

ETA: even if the OP has checked out of this thread, there are still plenty of others reading it. That's is partially why we (at least I) continue to respond to this.

already made it clear i was neither a lawyer or a law student in the first post i made so people can take from my perspective whatever they wish. I didn't hide anything. So anyone's choice to bring greater attention to my post than what it deserves is on them. OP or anyone with common sense or going to be a lawyer should not just take my perspective and run with it, especially as a deciding factor in their decision!

You assume that because op is not responding that he took my advice and is now waiting to accept 300k in debt, reaching much?

He could be, you know living life, found some hobbies, making even said fuck law school all together.



to take my post serious enough to apply it as a deciding or even crucial factor in one's life decisions is giving me way too much credit and doesn't make any sense.

I feel compelled to chime in.

Obviously, the decision the OP makes is on him/her, and he/she would be silly to take one (self-admittedly unqualified) poster's advice. You shouldn't be criminally prosecuted for giving silly advice. However, perhaps you should reconsider giving advice on tls when it comes to pivotal posts like these, especially when just about everyone else (almost all of which are more qualified than you) is saying the opposite as you, since you are a 0L and seem to have a limited understanding of law school and the legal field (which is entirely understandable).

lol thank you for being more understanding. I'm just trying to point out that I didn't advice op anything..what I did do was quote someone and put my (unwanted) two cents in about why I understand people who are apprehensive of repeatedly taking a test over and over...how there are other ways to make the best of your situation. I actually agree with the other posters here that 300k in debt is ridiculous. I wasn't arguing against their point of view. I never mentioned the op or his situation specifically but only mentioned my own and only addressed the individual i quoted.
it is strange how people are reaching in drawing conclusions about the influences my one post had on the outcome of a stranger's decision.

I just understand the op's frustration and i was just telling the person i quoted that hey people actually and successfully find ways around maxing an lsat score. I even wrote that to offset my potential score I'm saving a crap load of money, which also goes against any idea of OP taking 300k in debt.

[sd5289]

I feel compelled to chime in.

Obviously, the decision the OP makes is on him/her, and he/she would be silly to take one (self-admittedly unqualified) poster's advice. You shouldn't be criminally prosecuted for giving silly advice. However, perhaps you should reconsider giving advice on tls when it comes to pivotal posts like these, especially when just about everyone else (almost all of which are more qualified than you) is saying the opposite as you, since you are a 0L and seem to have a limited understanding of law school and the legal field (which is entirely understandable).

^ This.

Please don't give "advice" in an area you know nothing about, especially when it is contrary to the advice given by people who have gone through law school and/or are practicing lawyers. You can't be blamed for someone else's bad choices, but try not to propel them toward making that bad choice.

[Clearly]

I feel compelled to chime in.

Obviously, the decision the OP makes is on him/her, and he/she would be silly to take one (self-admittedly unqualified) poster's advice. You shouldn't be criminally prosecuted for giving silly advice. However, perhaps you should reconsider giving advice on tls when it comes to pivotal posts like these, especially when just about everyone else (almost all of which are more qualified than you) is saying the opposite as you, since you are a 0L and seem to have a limited understanding of law school and the legal field (which is entirely understandable).

^ This.

Please don't give "advice" in an area you know nothing about, especially when it is contrary to the advice given by people who have gone through law school and/or are practicing lawyers. You can't be blamed for someone else's bad choices, but try not to propel them toward making that bad choice.

Inb4 "I don't have the power to propel people, so it's ok if I try to" aka I terrible aim, so it's ok if I shoot at you.

[lillawyer2]

I feel compelled to chime in.

Obviously, the decision the OP makes is on him/her, and he/she would be silly to take one (self-admittedly unqualified) poster's advice. You shouldn't be criminally prosecuted for giving silly advice. However, perhaps you should reconsider giving advice on tls when it comes to pivotal posts like these, especially when just about everyone else (almost all of which are more qualified than you) is saying the opposite as you, since you are a 0L and seem to have a limited understanding of law school and the legal field (which is entirely understandable).

^ This.

Please don't give "advice" in an area you know nothing about, especially when it is contrary to the advice given by people who have gone through law school and/or are practicing lawyers. You can't be blamed for someone else's bad choices, but try not to propel them toward making that bad choice.

Let's just end it at this:

I'll be mum...across the board out or respect for TLS and because I honestly don't have advice to give.


bc this back and forth, when OP has mysteriously "vanished," isn't going anywhere. I'll fallback so nothing like what you think what i did or tired to do happens again.

[Troianii]

Hey guys, I was put on wait list of Cardozo(Yeshiva) last night and the final decision will be made probably in late April or May. What should I do next? Some people said I should book a skype/in-person interview with the committee or write a LOCI. Is either of them helpful? Or anything practical I could do? Is Cardozo a good law school? The rank is 64th. All opinions are welcomed. Thanks.

I don't know what's up with Cardozo this year. I was accepted and given large scholarship offers from its peer schools in NYC (similarly ranked schools), and was waitlisted at Cardozo. That said, usually, usually, getting in off the waitlist comes with no scholarship. I'm not sure that anyone should be going to Cardozo without a scholarship. The tuition is high, cost of living is one of the highest in the nation - you're looking at easily over 200k in expenses. Unless you have mummy-daddy-money, I'd forget about Cardozo and look elsewhere.

EDIT: Woah! I was just responding to the original post, I didn't see (when I wrote the above) that the OP is foreign. With that in mind - just forget it. Full sticker at Cardozo isn't worth it, and getting a job w/o citizenship is nigh impossible. If you really dream about this, then go to a lower cost school.

[sd5289]

I'm not sure that anyone sure that no one should be going to Cardozo without a scholarship.

FTFY

[Troianii]

I'm not sure that anyone sure that no one should be going to Cardozo without a scholarship.

FTFY

Yeah actually, you did haha.