Stupid Question: Why is T14 special? Forum

[TripTrip]

Those UVA kids in SF-jobs aren't working for the school and licking envelopes in the mailroom as your post subtly suggests. They are working in government agencies, public interest jobs, courts and law firms while UVA pays them 31,500K/year. (Where does UVA get this money? They have one of the highest alumni giving rates) From what I've read, almost all of these kids land legit jobs after their fellowships are over. Also, I don't know if UVA is consciously gaming the system but their efforts deserve an applause. Getting 400 graduates legal jobs at graduation is a huge fuckin task...

You're right--it's a better program than what some other schools are doing. And it's a nice safety-net for those who didn't find anything. I still don't think it's controversial to claim that this is not an optimal outcome for these people (especially those who still don't have anything after this fellowship is over). When people see 98%, I doubt they are thinking of school funded fellowships at ~30K that year for a large chunk of the class who couldn't find a job and now are hoping to god they can get something after this fellowship.

But these fellowships are what, 15% of the class? That means 83% of graduates found a "good" gig right out of school. That's stellar, and the fellowships seem to be just a one-year safety net.

GULC has a fair ranking. About 25% are PI/Gov't which is what a significant portion of students there self-select into because they want to be in DC specifically for that opportunity. Those jobs are as, if not more, competitive then Biglaw jobs. Also, the raw number of GULC students getting Biglaw is normally higher then almost anywhere else. Idt hiring partner's give a discount to a GULC v UVA with all things being equal. They just have such a big school that they hurt their own stats. If GULC had 400, instead of 600, I bet they would easily have a top T10 Biglaw ranking even with a significant portion of students self-selecting into Gov't and PI.

I might be biased, but I wouldn't compare GULC and UVA as peers.

[hunter.d]

I can appreciate UVA has better employment rankings for the entire class. I just don't think a hiring partner presented with two students with the same grades and the same resume is going to give a big UVA bonus. They don't comb the rankings like that. If the GULC student just had better social skills or was more relatable to the interviewer they would beat out the equally ranked student from UVA.

The debate is academic though because GULC's class size means the market can't absorb 25% of its grads that want biglaw but don't get it.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I can appreciate UVA has better employment rankings for the entire class. I just don't think a hiring partner presented with two students with the same grades and the same resume is going to give a big UVA bonus. They don't comb the rankings like that. If the GULC student just had better social skills or was more relatable to the interviewer they would beat out the equally ranked student from UVA.

The debate is academic though because GULC's class size means the market can't absorb 25% of its grads that want biglaw but don't get it.

It's more about how deep in a class firms will go at each school. And I would imagine that more firms go deeper into UVAs class than the other way around. (I know for Texas the median UVA person is going to be in a better position than the median GULC person.)

[glebe]

According to that chart, the chances of getting into BigLaw are roughly the same at Georgetown, Virginia, Yale, Stanford, and Michigan.

That's definitely not what the chart says.

+1

Also, keep in mind you really have to include federal clerkship numbers. Federal clerkships are generally harder to get than biglaw and most of these people already have a firm lined up afterwards or will be able to get biglaw afterwards.

Duly noted, I didn't know about the link between federal clerkships and biglaw. Georgetown is seriously lacking in that respect.

[TripTrip]

According to that chart, the chances of getting into BigLaw are roughly the same at Georgetown, Virginia, Yale, Stanford, and Michigan.

That's definitely not what the chart says.

+1

Also, keep in mind you really have to include federal clerkship numbers. Federal clerkships are generally harder to get than biglaw and most of these people already have a firm lined up afterwards or will be able to get biglaw afterwards.

Duly noted, I didn't know about the link between federal clerkships and biglaw. Georgetown is seriously lacking in that respect.

It's not really about the link between federal clerkships and biglaw, it's that many grads will self-select out of biglaw if they can get a good clerkship. That's why you'll see most data on employment prospects include biglaw and clerkships, because that combined percentage typically includes graduates who got something "real good." (You can also get clerkship bonuses later down the line, but most employment statistics don't track "down the line" at all.) PI is the other big self-select field, but it's a little more difficult to measure.