Law School Prof, Bored, Taking Q's Forum

[LawProfessor123]

From a financial perspective, at what point is it foolish to attend a school ranked similar to that at which you teach? Giving the figure in terms of tuition per year would be most helpful. Off to GTL.

That's difficult to say. I *attended* a law school where 50k was worth it.

Where I teach, I think 20k a year is definitely worth it. 30k, less so. 50k, a total rip off.

The calculus changes to the extent you are independently wealthy or if you really, really, really, really want to become a lawyer and will be so happy in that position that you won't blink at being a slave to your debt.

Again, though, I've never been in a position to consider it carefully. I do think my school is a good school and that my best students are as good as the best students at my T5. I have far more serious reservations about the bottom half of the class, though.

[LawProfessor123]

How carefully are 1L grades scrutinized in academic hiring, assuming a few years in firm or government practice? For example, can a CCN grad overcome mediocre (say top 30/40%) 1L grades in his or her 2L/3L years by rising to top 10% upon graduation? This is of course assuming a non-clerkship oriented path to academia.

Unless they're horrible, your 1L grades don't matter, except to the extent they affect your ability to obtain other things that matter (law review membership, prestigious jobs, clerkships).

Of the 5 schools that offered me tenure track positions, not a single one even asked me for a transcript until *after* I was hired. (Note, however, that VAP and fellowship programs will almost certainly ask for a transcript.)

If you are a CCN grad, focus on scholarship. Top 30%-40% in your 1L year is fine, whether nor not you improve later on.

[Kobe_Teeth]

What do law school students do that just drives you fucking crazy?

And/Or

What do you hate about your job?

[andreafitz1981]

What, do you think, is the most beneficial use of your office hours? I mean, how can students best utilize you as a resource? Thanks

[Kobe_Teeth]

What, do you think, is the most beneficial use of your office hours? I mean, how can students best utilize you as a resource? Thanks

good ?

[LawProfessor123]

What do law school students do that just drives you fucking crazy?

And/Or

What do you hate about your job?

1. Asking questions about the exam to the point of insanity. "So if you test us on this, how will the question be phrased?" "How many points will you allocate to this topic?" "Do we have to know about [topic we obviously covered in class]?"

2. I hate grading exams. And I hate being largely irrelevant to the "real world." Even if I throw a practical article out there, i have to hope someone reads it. And even if it helps someone, I have no way of knowing that fact -- it's not like someone will send me an email every time he or she reads my article and finds it useful.

[TheSituation]

Can you give some insight into the methods you use in exam grading? What are some of the things that separate the great exams from the mediocre ones?

[LawProfessor123]

What, do you think, is the most beneficial use of your office hours? I mean, how can students best utilize you as a resource? Thanks

If you're confused about something, do everything you can to figure it out, *then* come to office hours. Coming to office hours because you are vaguely confused and just want me to re-lecture is a waste of your time and mine. I love helping someone through an issue when they've zigged rather than zagged -- the look of understanding on their face is truly priceless, at least to me. But I hate having to re-teach something entirely because the student was too lazy to make an earnest effort to learn something or simply skipped class.

[LawProfessor123]

Can you give some insight into the methods you use in exam grading? What are some of the things that separate the great exams from the mediocre ones?

I don't write "essay" exams; I prefer to test narrower areas through the use of short answer or m/c questions. Thus, at least for my exams, it's clear whether someone knows what's she talking about or not.

I share your confusion and concern as to what many professors are looking for in open-ended essay exams. Judging from my discussions with my colleagues, I do not believe these exams are being graded consistently among professors.

[Kobe_Teeth]

What did notice was the most glaring thing law school didn't teach you once you started practicing?

[LawProfessor123]

What did notice was the most glaring thing law school didn't teach you once you started practicing?

How to analyze legal authorities from a variety of sources. I knew how to learn the law from a casebook and a study aid, need be, but I was entirely incompetent in tracking down legislative materials, agency publications, practitioner articles, treatises, and so on. In short, my research skills were horrid even though I aced most of my substantive law classes.

[Kobe_Teeth]

BTW...if you want cheap wine I dig Redwood Creek...vastly superior to yellow tail...$8 a bottle...good night

[LawProfessor123]

BTW...if you want cheap wine I dig Redwood Creek...vastly superior to yellow tail...$8 a bottle...good night

Thx.

[owlfredo]

How carefully are 1L grades scrutinized in academic hiring, assuming a few years in firm or government practice? For example, can a CCN grad overcome mediocre (say top 30/40%) 1L grades in his or her 2L/3L years by rising to top 10% upon graduation? This is of course assuming a non-clerkship oriented path to academia.

Unless they're horrible, your 1L grades don't matter, except to the extent they affect your ability to obtain other things that matter (law review membership, prestigious jobs, clerkships).

Of the 5 schools that offered me tenure track positions, not a single one even asked me for a transcript until *after* I was hired. (Note, however, that VAP and fellowship programs will almost certainly ask for a transcript.)

If you are a CCN grad, focus on scholarship. Top 30%-40% in your 1L year is fine, whether nor not you improve later on.

Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to answer this.

[youpiiz]

.

[doyleoil]

ugh, more aspiring academics...if there's anything the world needs less than lawyers....

[rockstar4488]

Why is it important for you to remain anonymous?

[PKSebben]

.

[HazelEyes]

Loved this thread, even if it's not real, was finally interesting.

[doppelganger]

How ya feel about the legal market?

How are students at your school doing at OCI?

What are you drinking right now?

1. Pretty negatively. I feel that the current batch of graduates is really screwed. I have a number of students who plan to graduate in Dec/Jan and I try to convince them to graduate in May, unless they have a job lined up.

2. From what I can tell (I'm a new prof), only the top 5% or so lands with a big firm.

3. I drank a bottle of Yellow Tail and am now working on a 6-pack of Corona.

[LawProfessor123]

I'm suffering from insomnia and will answer Q's for a bit, if anyone is awake. I hope you are enjoying your summers.

[worldtraveler]

In your opinion, is it better to practice for a while first before going into academia, or to try and head straight into it after law school or a fellowship/clerkship?

[Fark-o-vision]

How familiar are you with the various supplements? I'm not looking for which are effective,. but more for which you are personally accustomed.

[nealric]

Any tips on getting papers published?

[LawProfessor123]

In your opinion, is it better to practice for a while first before going into academia, or to try and head straight into it after law school or a fellowship/clerkship?

Practice for a while, but not too long. Or, if you want to practice more than 5 years, make sure to publish while you are practicing.

I will not deny that this advice is strange -- one would hope that law professors would have more, rather than less, real world experience. But my response is geared only towards someone interested in the teaching market.

If you don't practice at all, some will (rightfully) look askance at your application, although every year a significant percentage of new hires have not practiced a day of law in their lives.