Non T14 schools with good employment prospects? Forum

[Esc]

Sorry, my mistake. I saw 50k+ for undergrad so I assumed that 60k+ for law school meant total.

[mz253]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

[Grad09]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60K a year in NYC (or Boston or LA or SF or any other metropolitann city at or around one of the coasts) + monthly loan payments + taxes = not so comfortable living.

You can make 60K a year out of undergrad. If you are going to law school, do it because you really want to be a lawyer. Thats the only way you won't be miserable during your "comfortable living" situation making 60K.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from going to law school, but all I hear and read about are students who graduate with debt that makes them want to cry every night. At least if you really want to be a lawyer, it won't be so bad.

[keg411]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60K a year in NYC (or Boston or LA or SF or any other metropolitann city at or around one of the coasts) + monthly loan payments + taxes = not so comfortable living.

You can make 60K a year out of undergrad. If you are going to law school, do it because you really want to be a lawyer. Thats the only way you won't be miserable during your "comfortable living" situation making 60K.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from going to law school, but all I hear and read about are students who graduate with debt that makes them want to cry every night. At least if you really want to be a lawyer, it won't be so bad.

Making 60k out of undergrad is about as likely as making 160k out of law school (if not less likely depending on where you live). Try half that at most for 99.9% of grads.

[jms1987]

well, i haven't done that much research. based on my PT, i guess my chances at T14 is pretty slim. I wonder if I prefer to practice law in CA or WA (definitely will not work for the government or public sector, international student). but I'm open to other locations as long as there's no cold winter. (i'm really sick of the weather in new england).

what non T14 schools would be good? This is my tentative list.

UCLA and USC (my top choice)
BU and BC
Vandy
Emory
U of Washington
UC Davies
College of Williams and Mary

any additions?

Out of those, Vandy and Emory.

[mz253]

you meant take them off the list? or they are the only two should be stay on the list?

well, i haven't done that much research. based on my PT, i guess my chances at T14 is pretty slim. I wonder if I prefer to practice law in CA or WA (definitely will not work for the government or public sector, international student). but I'm open to other locations as long as there's no cold winter. (i'm really sick of the weather in new england).

what non T14 schools would be good? This is my tentative list.

UCLA and USC (my top choice)
BU and BC
Vandy
Emory
U of Washington
UC Davies
College of Williams and Mary

any additions?

Out of those, Vandy and Emory.

[A'nold]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60K a year in NYC (or Boston or LA or SF or any other metropolitann city at or around one of the coasts) + monthly loan payments + taxes = not so comfortable living.

You can make 60K a year out of undergrad. If you are going to law school, do it because you really want to be a lawyer. Thats the only way you won't be miserable during your "comfortable living" situation making 60K.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from going to law school, but all I hear and read about are students who graduate with debt that makes them want to cry every night. At least if you really want to be a lawyer, it won't be so bad.

Making 60k out of undergrad is about as likely as making 160k out of law school (if not less likely depending on where you live). Try half that at most for 99.9% of grads.

Thank you. "Hello Grad09, this is reality, I know we've never met but I just wanted to let you know that I exist."

[im_blue]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60K a year in NYC (or Boston or LA or SF or any other metropolitann city at or around one of the coasts) + monthly loan payments + taxes = not so comfortable living.

You can make 60K a year out of undergrad. If you are going to law school, do it because you really want to be a lawyer. Thats the only way you won't be miserable during your "comfortable living" situation making 60K.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from going to law school, but all I hear and read about are students who graduate with debt that makes them want to cry every night. At least if you really want to be a lawyer, it won't be so bad.

Not ITE.

"24 percent of 2010 college graduates who applied for a job have one waiting after graduation, up from 20 percent last year."
"Salaries ... for liberal arts majors fell 8.9 percent, to $33,540."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/busin ... djobs.html

[keg411]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60K a year in NYC (or Boston or LA or SF or any other metropolitann city at or around one of the coasts) + monthly loan payments + taxes = not so comfortable living.

You can make 60K a year out of undergrad. If you are going to law school, do it because you really want to be a lawyer. Thats the only way you won't be miserable during your "comfortable living" situation making 60K.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from going to law school, but all I hear and read about are students who graduate with debt that makes them want to cry every night. At least if you really want to be a lawyer, it won't be so bad.

Not ITE.

"24 percent of 2010 college graduates who applied for a job have one waiting after graduation, up from 20 percent last year."
"Salaries ... for liberal arts majors fell 8.9 percent, to $33,540."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/busin ... djobs.html

And you have to imagine even that $33k number is way inflated. Grad09 is clearly an undergrad ---> LS person who never worked in between. I remember when I finally got my job out of college, I was like the happiest person alive... and I made under 20k/year (I wasn't lib-arts... I was comm, which probably has an even lower avg salary).

[romothesavior]

why? college is 50k+, law school is 60K+, counting inflation, i feel i'm paying the same, but probably just a little more? assuming i don't go to school in NYC.

Who in their right mind would spend 50k a year for undergrad?

[manbearwig]

why? college is 50k+, law school is 60K+, counting inflation, i feel i'm paying the same, but probably just a little more? assuming i don't go to school in NYC.

Who in their right mind would spend 50k a year for undergrad?

People who don't know that law schools don't really care about UG. Or people who are willing to pay for a certain type of school.

[motiontodismiss]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60k in NY/BOS/SF/LA=poverty level. If you're borrowing up the ass for law school, you'll need to make $100k to have the same standard of living as someone making $60k with no debt.

I'd be happy with $125k/yr (no debt) but maybe I'm just spoiled.

But then again I do not consider it completely out of the realm of possiblity that the Dow jumps 3k points tomorrow and NY goes to 190 next year lol

[mz253]

well, i will not take loans.

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60k in NY/BOS/SF/LA=poverty level. If you're borrowing up the ass for law school, you'll need to make $100k to have the same standard of living as someone making $60k with no debt.

I'd be happy with $125k/yr (no debt) but maybe I'm just spoiled.

But then again I do not consider it completely out of the realm of possiblity that the Dow jumps 3k points tomorrow and NY goes to 190 next year lol

[motiontodismiss]

well, i will not take loans.

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60k in NY/BOS/SF/LA=poverty level. If you're borrowing up the ass for law school, you'll need to make $100k to have the same standard of living as someone making $60k with no debt.

I'd be happy with $125k/yr (no debt) but maybe I'm just spoiled.

But then again I do not consider it completely out of the realm of possiblity that the Dow jumps 3k points tomorrow and NY goes to 190 next year lol

Even so. Take it from a recent NYU alum: You will starve on $60k a year in the likes of NYC. $60k net might be just short of reasonable for Manhattan. $60k gross is impossible.

[mz253]

probably you just have a very high standard of living? i'm thinking, if i get housing for 1000 (share it with other people), and other expense for 1000, then I only need 2000 a month. and it's 24000 a year. and i get 40000 out of 60000 after tax, right?

well, i will not take loans.

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60k in NY/BOS/SF/LA=poverty level. If you're borrowing up the ass for law school, you'll need to make $100k to have the same standard of living as someone making $60k with no debt.

I'd be happy with $125k/yr (no debt) but maybe I'm just spoiled.

But then again I do not consider it completely out of the realm of possiblity that the Dow jumps 3k points tomorrow and NY goes to 190 next year lol

Even so. Take it from a recent NYU alum: You will starve on $60k a year in the likes of NYC. $60k net might be just short of reasonable for Manhattan. $60k gross is impossible.

[motiontodismiss]

probably you just have a very high standard of living? i'm thinking, if i get housing for 1000 (share it with other people), and other expense for 1000, then I only need 2000 a month. and it's 24000 a year. and i get 40000 out of 60000 after tax, right?

Trust me. Don't expect to live on $2k a month in Manhattan. I lived in university housing, and didn't spend anything on suits, furniture or any utilities and I racked up $1500/month. Ish.

If you're lucky, you'll get $40k net on $60k gross (more like $36k). And lol at sharing an apt for $1k a month. 2 bedrooms run AT LEAST $3k a month. Studios run between $1250 and $2k+. If you go out to Jersey, you get lower taxes and cheaper housing but you'll also need a car, take the PATH and pay all the associated costs. And trust me, you will be spending a lot more than $1k/month on other expenses. Cell=$50, Internet/TV=$100, dry cleaning (a big one)=$100-$150, Gas/electric/water=$150, Metrocard=$91 and rising, Cab fund=$100. You expect to eat and clothe yourself as well as furnishing your apt for $350/month? And in this scenario, you don't even have health insurance yet.

I don't have a high standard of living, I'm just realistic.

[mz253]

but i would assume that working at NYC will pay more right? lots of my asian friends stay in flushing and it's fairly cheap. anyway, i'm good at saving money. i literally made all my pocket money by working 20 hours in undergrad.

[mz253]

probably you just have a very high standard of living? i'm thinking, if i get housing for 1000 (share it with other people), and other expense for 1000, then I only need 2000 a month. and it's 24000 a year. and i get 40000 out of 60000 after tax, right?

Trust me. Don't expect to live on $2k a month in Manhattan. I lived in university housing, and didn't spend anything on suits, furniture or any utilities and I racked up $1500/month. Ish.

If you're lucky, you'll get $40k net on $60k gross (more like $36k). And lol at sharing an apt for $1k a month. 2 bedrooms run AT LEAST $3k a month. Studios run between $1250 and $2k+. If you go out to Jersey, you get lower taxes and cheaper housing but you'll also need a car, take the PATH and pay all the associated costs. And trust me, you will be spending a lot more than $1k/month on other expenses. Cell=$50, Internet/TV=$100, dry cleaning (a big one)=$100-$150, Gas/electric/water=$150, Metrocard=$91 and rising, Cab fund=$100. You expect to eat and clothe yourself as well as furnishing your apt for $350/month? And in this scenario, you don't even have health insurance yet.

I don't have a high standard of living, I'm just realistic.

but i would assume that working at NYC will pay more right? lots of my asian friends stay in flushing and it's fairly cheap. anyway, i'm good at saving money. i literally made all my pocket money by working 20 hours in undergrad.

[ozarkhack]

I was comm, which probably has an even lower avg salary).

Me too. 1st job = $25K. Seven years later, I'm barely ahead of that (adj. for inflation). But it was awesome fun.

Regarding OP's question: As others have said, Vanderbilt.

[motiontodismiss]

but i would assume that working at NYC will pay more right? lots of my asian friends stay in flushing and it's fairly cheap. anyway, i'm good at saving money. i literally made all my pocket money by working 20 hours in undergrad.

Not necessarily. Biglaw pays the same whether you're in NY or Houston.

[09042014]

but i would assume that working at NYC will pay more right? lots of my asian friends stay in flushing and it's fairly cheap. anyway, i'm good at saving money. i literally made all my pocket money by working 20 hours in undergrad.

Not necessarily. Biglaw pays the same whether you're in NY or Houston.

Some firms do, other firms pay below 160K for other cities. Even many Chicago big law firms pay 145.

[motiontodismiss]

but i would assume that working at NYC will pay more right? lots of my asian friends stay in flushing and it's fairly cheap. anyway, i'm good at saving money. i literally made all my pocket money by working 20 hours in undergrad.

Not necessarily. Biglaw pays the same whether you're in NY or Houston.

Some firms do, other firms pay below 160K for other cities. Even many Chicago big law firms pay 145.

You still come out ahead though-CoL difference is 30% and the pay cut is 10%. The 20% difference goes straight into your pocket.

$145,000 in Chi=$188,637 in NY=178,500 in LA=$214,697 in SF

The only way you'd fall behind is if your Chicago pay fell below $122,988. Or if you decided to live in Lake Forest (costs the same as Scarsdale).

[09042014]

but i would assume that working at NYC will pay more right? lots of my asian friends stay in flushing and it's fairly cheap. anyway, i'm good at saving money. i literally made all my pocket money by working 20 hours in undergrad.

Not necessarily. Biglaw pays the same whether you're in NY or Houston.

Some firms do, other firms pay below 160K for other cities. Even many Chicago big law firms pay 145.

You still come out ahead though-CoL difference is 30% and the pay cut is 10%. The 20% difference goes straight into your pocket.

$145,000 in Chi=$188,637 in NY=178,500 in LA=$214,697 in SF

The only way you'd fall behind is if your Chicago pay fell below $122,988. Or if you decided to live in Lake Forest (costs the same as Scarsdale).

The costs don't scale linearly like those COL calculators assume. But yea I'd rather have 145 in chicago than 160 in NYC. But I'd rather have 160K in Chicago, so I better study my ass off 1L.

[mikcou]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60k in NY/BOS/SF/LA=poverty level. If you're borrowing up the ass for law school, you'll need to make $100k to have the same standard of living as someone making $60k with no debt.

I'd be happy with $125k/yr (no debt) but maybe I'm just spoiled.

But then again I do not consider it completely out of the realm of possiblity that the Dow jumps 3k points tomorrow and NY goes to 190 next year lol

60k in Boston is not poverty level. Thats laughable. Possibly in NY. And yes youre spoiled.

[romothesavior]

160K is great. but i'm realistic. get a job, and see how i do. if i'm good, i'll make more money later. but i think 60000 will make a comfortable life.

60k in NY/BOS/SF/LA=poverty level. If you're borrowing up the ass for law school, you'll need to make $100k to have the same standard of living as someone making $60k with no debt.

I'd be happy with $125k/yr (no debt) but maybe I'm just spoiled.

So if 100k with debt = 60k with no debt, then someone with a 100k salary and law school debt will be paying 40k in loans towards that debt? Interesting analysis.