Law and Age Discrimination - Too Old? Forum

[loser148]

As for money in entertainment, I have 3 friends / relatives in that area that would like to ask where that money is.... one is a special effects person, the other two are on the director / video side.[/quote]


In all sincerity, UT does have work, not guaranteed but there is work and we do have LOTS of federal dollars flowing into Utah that future generations can expect to pay back. Sigh….

[loser148]

What are the credentials behind those who state you are more likely to be hired when younger????
Curious???

[englawyer]

So what is too old for biglaw hiring? I'll have just turned 32 when I graduate and assumed that having legit WE would help offset for being a few years older than my peers. Are you guys saying this is a bad assumption?

Yes.

You are more likely to be hired when you are younger than older.

how about upper 20's vs mid 20's? disadvantage? advantage?

i will be 29 at graduation.

[loser148]

Discrimination….They can’t hide from that…
Well, they can….But it is a noteworthy cause!
AND LEGIT.

[rw2264]

So what is too old for biglaw hiring? I'll have just turned 32 when I graduate and assumed that having legit WE would help offset for being a few years older than my peers. Are you guys saying this is a bad assumption?

i love stringer bell. i'm watching the wire right now.

[Stringer Bell]

Yes.

You are more likely to be hired when you are younger than older.

I'm not saying your assessment is wrong in my case, but that blanket statement seems inaccurate. I think NU's median entering age is around 26 and they have placed well, actually better than higher ranked schools with a younger class, for biglaw (edit: pre-ITE of course). The rumor mill flying around here is that WE was a huge plus at OCI this year (no stats to back this up, just anecdotes). So it would seem that 28-29 with some WE may be better than 25-26 with none.

[loser148]

Discrimination….They can’t hide from that…
Well, they can….But it is a noteworthy cause!
AND LEGIT.

You'll be comparatively young with a tremendous future ahead of you.

[Stringer Bell]

So what is too old for biglaw hiring? I'll have just turned 32 when I graduate and assumed that having legit WE would help offset for being a few years older than my peers. Are you guys saying this is a bad assumption?

i love stringer bell. i'm watching the wire right now.

Nice. It's the best show ever made.

[Cloud9]

While it may be true (I don't know) that at mid 30s you're at a disadvantage.

I doubt that it'll make a significant difference for the overwhelming majority of students.

Late 30s, 40s and beyond, well, that's a different story.

If I'm to believe that at 29 or 32 top legal firms wouldn't seriously consider students from top law schools, then I know those firms are run by morons and I'll gladly compete with them.

[kalvano]

Yes.

You are more likely to be hired when you are younger than older.

I'm not saying your assessment is wrong in my case, but that blanket statement seems inaccurate. I think NU's median entering age is around 26 and they have placed well, actually better than higher ranked schools with a younger class, for biglaw (edit: pre-ITE of course). The rumor mill flying around here is that WE was a huge plus at OCI this year (no stats to back this up, just anecdotes). So it would seem that 28-29 with some WE may be better than 25-26 with none.

It's simply what I have heard from many practicing lawyers.

I think they were referring more to 35+ than late 20's, but it was pretty unanimous that the top firms prefer younger people.

[bahama]

Yes.

You are more likely to be hired when you are younger than older.

I'm not saying your assessment is wrong in my case, but that blanket statement seems inaccurate. I think NU's median entering age is around 26 and they have placed well, actually better than higher ranked schools with a younger class, for biglaw (edit: pre-ITE of course). The rumor mill flying around here is that WE was a huge plus at OCI this year (no stats to back this up, just anecdotes). So it would seem that 28-29 with some WE may be better than 25-26 with none.

It's simply what I have heard from many practicing lawyers.

I think they were referring more to 35+ than late 20's, but it was pretty unanimous that the top firms prefer younger people.

There are a lot of people with a few yrs of work exp prior to law school - look at the bios on firm websites. Not to mention the consensus that work exp was a huge plus for OCI this year.

I've talked to a few people at T14s in their mid 30s to mid 40s who said age did not hurt them and often helped.

It probably matters at some firms though. But I doubt it impacts anyone in their late 20s or early 30s (who would have been in their 20s when applying to law school). If some firms have a bias against older students, I would guess it had to do with the firm's perception of your willingness to put up with big law bs and lfestyle.

Anyone older who has been through OCI care to comment?

[mhernton]

It seems somewhat ironic to be asking this question in a law school forum given that the law is supposed to protect against age discrimination, but here goes. The question is three parts.

First, is mid '40s too old for law school? I'm sure there are likely to be a wide range of opinions on this question.

Second, for those that say, "no" to the first question, what is the likelihood of a candidate attending a top 10 law school compared to younger candidates (all else being equal)?

Third, what are the odds of employment by a top 10 firm (assuming top grades in law school) for a 40 something year old lawyer compared to younger candidates (all else being equal)?

Mid 40's is not too old, I'm a non-traditional candidate myself at 33

you have a better chance than a 23y/o with your numbers, whatever they are. GPA is pretty much ignored, LSAT is key

This may be a problem, but the key is to figure out how to leverage your current work experience with the a job at a firm. That has value. Good Luck

[AR75]

Post #2: Ceteris paribus--when it's just too damned hard to type out the words "all other things equal." Nice work. People love Latin in place of simple phrases.

[Rotor]

OP: I was 42 when I submitted my apps. Got into Berkeley with sub25th GPA and submedian LSAT-- so the life experience certainly helped.

As for the follow on employment, I never intended to go the big law route. As nice as it would be to make that kind of coin, it's just not what I was interested in. As far as the loans go, don't forget about LRAP and IBRPs. They will help you better afford not going the 160k route (but I wouldn't recommend going crazy with the loans either).

Anecdotally, each of my classmates who I know are 35+, none are planning big law, so there may be some self selection in addition to the ageism. I also already have a summer gig lined up with a judge, so my age didn't hurt me there.

[Unitas]

Politics, public service (DA, public defender, and so forth), judicial, solo practices, advocacy, teaching, and of course people go to work for small firms.

I also didn't mean to say you would have a 0% chance at big law. You would just be a long shot.

Politics - hmm, can't see myself going that route...

Public service - definitely not for me

Judicial - maybe

Solo practice - Definitely an option (though I would expect to do some time at a law firm first)

Advocacy - perhaps as part time work

Teaching - not in the short or intermediate term, but again, definitely an option

Small firms - I can see that at some point.

I was thinking about it like this: Big name firm -> small firm -> solo practice -> teach

You forgot corporate law, patent / IP, real estate, etc. I would probably leverage my Computer Science, Engineering, and Business background with the JD.

I did forget corporate law, not a big fan of it.

Post #2: Ceteris paribus--when it's just too damned hard to type out the words "all other things equal." Nice work. People love Latin in place of simple phrases.

I am an economics major, I write and read ceteris paribus A LOT.

[Cloud9]

Thanks for the advice guys.

LRAP and IBRP ??? What do the acronyms stand for?

I'd be more than happy to play the big law game for 3-5yrs, but not a day over 5yrs.

[Rotor]

Thanks for the advice guys.

LRAP and IBRP ??? What do the acronyms stand for?

I'd be more than happy to play the big law game for 3-5yrs, but not a day over 5yrs.

LRAP=Loan Repayment Assistance Plan
IBRP=Income Based Repayment Plan

Plans vary substantially school-to-school. Be sure to include it/them in your research of schools you'd like to attend.

[Cloud9]

Thanks for the advice guys.

LRAP and IBRP ??? What do the acronyms stand for?

I'd be more than happy to play the big law game for 3-5yrs, but not a day over 5yrs.

LRAP=Loan Repayment Assistance Plan
IBRP=Income Based Repayment Plan

Plans vary substantially school-to-school. Be sure to include it/them in your research of schools you'd like to attend.

Thanks Rotor, do these take into consideration your home, 401k, pension, etc. or is it income based? Do you happen to know?

[CyLaw]

Thanks for the advice guys.

LRAP and IBRP ??? What do the acronyms stand for?

I'd be more than happy to play the big law game for 3-5yrs, but not a day over 5yrs.

LRAP=Loan Repayment Assistance Plan
IBRP=Income Based Repayment Plan

Plans vary substantially school-to-school. Be sure to include it/them in your research of schools you'd like to attend.

Thanks Rotor, do these take into consideration your home, 401k, pension, etc. or is it income based? Do you happen to know?

Depends on the school. Most of the ones I know of base your contribution on your income and not other assets unless they affect your AGI.

[Cloud9]

Thanks for the advice guys.

LRAP and IBRP ??? What do the acronyms stand for?

I'd be more than happy to play the big law game for 3-5yrs, but not a day over 5yrs.

LRAP=Loan Repayment Assistance Plan
IBRP=Income Based Repayment Plan

Plans vary substantially school-to-school. Be sure to include it/them in your research of schools you'd like to attend.

Thanks Rotor, do these take into consideration your home, 401k, pension, etc. or is it income based? Do you happen to know?

Depends on the school. Most of the ones I know of base your contribution on your income and not other assets unless they affect your AGI.

Thanks CyLaw, that's good to know. Specially since my income is zilch, but I do have assets like a home, 401k, etc. Though I also have a family and hocking the home for LS doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm just figuring out options for going to LS or attaining my objectives that would provide the best odds of success given my circumstances.

[CyLaw]

Thanks CyLaw, that's good to know. Specially since my income is zilch, but I do have assets like a home, 401k, etc. Though I also have a family and hocking the home for LS doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm just figuring out options for going to LS or attaining my objectives that would provide the best odds of success given my circumstances.

It is income after law school. They are programs for repaying loans after your finish LS.

[Cloud9]

Thanks CyLaw, that's good to know. Specially since my income is zilch, but I do have assets like a home, 401k, etc. Though I also have a family and hocking the home for LS doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm just figuring out options for going to LS or attaining my objectives that would provide the best odds of success given my circumstances.

It is income after law school. They are programs for repaying loans after your finish LS.

Noted. I like the sound of IBRP seems like mitigates some of the risk of attending a top school and not landing a high paying job.

I have no problem doing grad level work and getting into debt as an investment, provided there's a real opportunity to do better than break even within a reasonable period of time.