Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU? Forum

[witorres89]

there are a lot of signs of serious inflation starting from the FED's QE. over the next couple of years, putting that cash into a law degree might be one of the best ways of "storing value" in that it is an investment in future earnings as high levels of inflation eat away at your pool of debt. there is speculation that the value of the dollar will be cut in half over the next 5 years. there is a lot of literature being published on this right now, but you can see it if you compare how much food you can buy with $200 now vs. 6 months ago. then again, wages always hang years behind inflation, so your real cost of living is going to hurt those returns. this is why the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. this under the table inflation doesn't get put into newspapers. it is a form of a tax break for corporations and investors while people with no financial knowledge get functionally taxed to inflate our debt away. people on fixed incomes have no way to adapt. such a fucked up world. anyways, its an awesome situation to be taking on debt in.

or buy $200k of physical holdings or leveraged gold/silver/food futures contracts.

50% inflation in five years? Bro, you need to stop watching beck.

the dollar's value getting cut in half would be 100% inflation

edit:and to the original question definitely t6 possibly t14

[071816]

It depends.

[Bartlebee06]

Debt is dumb! Cash is King!

[Law Sauce]

.

[Z3RO]

Full disclosure: I'm an 0L who will be paying sticker (230k) at NU.

I might be misunderstanding something here, but I think that a lot of people are discounting cost of living as well as inflating the value of a modest scholly in this thread.

Personally, I look at it in terms of take-home pay after taxes and loans. ATM that pay for me is about 2k. Harvard has a pretty cool calculator that helps you figure out what you'll make and pay at different debt levels.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/apps/sfs/cal ... home-calc/

I ran some quick numbers, and I don't know that paying sticker is really so foolish. Bear in mind that I'm including my UG debt when I ran these, but they should be indicative of any normal person.

Paying sticker and making 160k/year = 5,428 a month after tax/loans
Sticker making 120k/year = 4,032 a month after tax/loans (double what I currently make)
Sticker making 85k/year = 2,000 a month after tax/loans (where I am now)

Now, even if you get a full scholly, you have to pay cost-of-living loans. I'm gonna assume that these will total about 100k all told. I'm sure there are places where you can get by on much less, but this is my baseline. Now, the thing to keep in mind is that when you're taking a scholly at the mid T1, you are all but shut-out of the 100k+ jobs.

COL only making 85k/year = 3,534 a month after tax/loans
COL only making 60k/year = 2,000 a month after tax/loans (where I am now)
COL only making 45k/year = 1,200 a month after tax/loans (ouch).

Will there be people at the T14 making less than 85k who aren't eligible for IBR? Sure. Will there be people at the T1 making more than 85k? Absolutely. But these are extremes, and I wanted to get a handle on what the most likely outcomes were in relation to what I make now at a job with no advancement.

[onmytoes812]

Harvard has a pretty cool calculator that helps you figure out what you'll make and pay at different debt levels.

I'm probably about to pay out-of-state sticker at Texas...thanks for the calculator!

There's actually one I found that gives you a little more leeway in calculating "how" you pay off the loan (up your payments now, finish in fewer than 10 years, etc.) It doesn't calculate take-home pay at different levels I don't think, but it does give you a different way to look at the payments.

For example, I can pay off my loan at 40,000/year in ~6 years and save tens of thousands on the interest, while still having a pretty good "base salary." I did my own calculations to determine the take-home pay. You can play with different figures to include bonuses, etc. and then subtract total taxes and loans from your expected salary over the course of the payment period to get that.

Pretty helpful if you're trying to pay it off in fewer than 10 years.

http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/col ... lator.aspx

[crossarmant]

In my opinion, T25 is worth sticker. But also any state school with in-state tuition is worth it too. Usually they're solid enough schools in their respective markets and are half to a quarter the price of anything else.

[NYC Law]

Never would have though the Yeses would outnumber the Nos here - I guess the debbie downers are just more outspoken.

That said, the answer is 'it depends'.

[flcath]

As much as we all say that places like HLS and YLS are worth more, those kids might be the dumbest of all since they might've even been able to get into med school.

[crossarmant]

As much as we all say that places like HLS and YLS are worth more, those kids might be the dumbest of all since they might've even been able to get into med school.

Med school/Law school - Apples/Oranges. You can get a 4.0 in Poli Sci and nail a 180 LSAT but would be completely inept at Organic Chemistry and the MCAT. Anyways, plenty of law students would hate med school, and plenty of med students would hate law school.

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

[flcath]

As much as we all say that places like HLS and YLS are worth more, those kids might be the dumbest of all since they might've even been able to get into med school.

Med school/Law school - Apples/Oranges. You can get a 4.0 in Poli Sci and nail a 180 LSAT but would be completely inept at Organic Chemistry and the MCAT. Anyways, plenty of law students would hate med school, and plenty of med students would hate law school.

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

Not for the type of people on here.

When they say that "the feeling of having a Harvard Law degree behind you on the wall" is worth $200K, I have no doubt whatsoever they mean it. I also know lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris, etc.... it's basically the same concept.

[TheFactor]

As much as we all say that places like HLS and YLS are worth more, those kids might be the dumbest of all since they might've even been able to get into med school.

Med school/Law school - Apples/Oranges. You can get a 4.0 in Poli Sci and nail a 180 LSAT but would be completely inept at Organic Chemistry and the MCAT. Anyways, plenty of law students would hate med school, and plenty of med students would hate law school.

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

Not for the type of people on here.

When they say that "the feeling of having a Harvard Law degree behind you on the wall" is worth $200K, I have no doubt whatsoever they mean it. I also know lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris, etc.... it's basically the same concept.

lol at knowing lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris

[071816]

As much as we all say that places like HLS and YLS are worth more, those kids might be the dumbest of all since they might've even been able to get into med school.

Med school/Law school - Apples/Oranges. You can get a 4.0 in Poli Sci and nail a 180 LSAT but would be completely inept at Organic Chemistry and the MCAT. Anyways, plenty of law students would hate med school, and plenty of med students would hate law school.

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

Not for the type of people on here.

When they say that "the feeling of having a Harvard Law degree behind you on the wall" is worth $200K, I have no doubt whatsoever they mean it. I also know lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris, etc.... it's basically the same concept.

lol at knowing lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris

I call bullshit.

[crossarmant]

I call bullshit.

I'd believe it. You can definitely find some decently used Ferraris from the 80s for under $30k. You can find a slew of Mondials, 308s, 328s, F355s, and Testarossas on Yahoo Autos or AutoTrader for anywhere from $20k-45k. More than feasible for a middle-class guy looking for a way to make his penis nicer.

[bk1]

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

But it's not free vs 200. It's more like 60-80 vs 200, and we're ignoring how generous HYS can be with need aid. But HYS are leaps and bounds above the rest for certain things. I'm not saying it is the best thing to do to pay 2-3 times as much for it, but if your goal is something like A3 clerk or other highly prestigious work (public interest/gov/private/whatever) then there is a huge difference between HYS and other T14's. I mean if you really want to be an A3 clerk or a professor it would generally make sense to take Yale (or even H/S) at sticker over a full tuition scholly to a lower school since those schools place a fraction of their grads in those types of jobs compared to HYS.

That being said if you just want biglaw or just want the best possible ROI, then yes I agree that full tuition scholly at a lower school is a better deal. But to say that they are not leaps and bounds above the rest, especially in certain areas, is being ignorant of reality.

[flcath]

lol at knowing lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris

I call bullshit.

You guys obviously aren't from SoFla. Ppl will go into poverty to have (or lease) the very nicest fucking car they can afford.

It's kinda how TLS is about education.

[blsingindisguise]

If I had paid sticker at my school, most of the difference between my salary before and after school would be eaten up by loan payments, and when you factor in the three years of lost salary I'd actually be worse off. So no.

[blsingindisguise]

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

Not for the type of people on here.

When they say that "the feeling of having a Harvard Law degree behind you on the wall" is worth $200K, I have no doubt whatsoever they mean it. I also know lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris, etc.... it's basically the same concept.

Not necessarily. Even schools like Duke, Northwestern etc. no longer guarantee you a high-paying job, whereas HYS does. Plus the brand power of especially H and Y carries over into other fields in a way that most law schools don't.

[NYC Law]

lol at knowing lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris

I call bullshit.

You guys obviously aren't from SoFla. Ppl will go into poverty to have (or lease) the very nicest fucking car they can afford.

It's kinda how TLS is about education.

This holds true for Central Florida as well.

[flcath]

Though, I can agree with the idiocy of holding HYS as leaps and bounds ahead of the rest. Holding onto those like a Holy Grail, when if you can gain admittance to them, you can pretty much attend anywhere else for completely free. Northwestern, Cornell, or Duke for free just makes way more sense than Harvard at $200,000.

Not for the type of people on here.

When they say that "the feeling of having a Harvard Law degree behind you on the wall" is worth $200K, I have no doubt whatsoever they mean it. I also know lower-middle class guys who drive Ferraris, etc.... it's basically the same concept.

Not necessarily. Even schools like Duke, Northwestern etc. no longer guarantee you a high-paying job, whereas HYS does. Plus the brand power of especially H and Y carries over into other fields in a way that most law schools don't.

While there's a colorable argument in here (it's not one you should make to HLS kids who did OCIs in 2009), you know damn good and well that's not what a lot of TLSers are thinking about.

Some of these kids really should've applied to the prestigious Kennedy School of Government, if only to get the Harvard-lust out of their system.

[Ikki]

No T13 (except for HYS) would be worth sticker for me.

[firemed]

As much as we all say that places like HLS and YLS are worth more, those kids might be the dumbest of all since they might've even been able to get into med school.

As said before, not everyone wants to be a doctor. Some people just can't handle blood and guts. Or they are like me, and hope to never have to touch a patient again- and hope that I can someday use listerine again without gagging.

[BioEBear2010]

As said before, not everyone wants to be a doctor. Some people just can't handle blood and guts. Or they are like me, and hope to never have to touch a patient again- and hope that I can someday use listerine again without gagging.

Or they want to be done with school before they are thirty (and that's in the best-case scenario).

[TheFutureLawyer]

Lowest schools I'd pay sticker at are UF/FSU at in-state cost (I think total CoA is about 85k) (and other states have their equivalents). If you want to be a lawyer, deals like that aren't so bad.

Unless you're going after BigLaw, there's no reason to take out 150k+ in loans. So unless you go to a school that gives you at least a 1/3 chance of making biglaw, either go for 100k or less or go elsewhere.

[firemed]

As said before, not everyone wants to be a doctor. Some people just can't handle blood and guts. Or they are like me, and hope to never have to touch a patient again- and hope that I can someday use listerine again without gagging.

Or they want to be done with school before they are thirty (and that's in the best-case scenario).

Yeah... for me it would be mid-40s. Eff that.