Best Law School for Texas? Forum

[kalvano]

ITT: Kalvano takes on smarter people and gets pwned by several.

If you like. Even though, going back through, there's you and 2 others arguing against me, and everyone else going with me.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Insult fail.

I was waiting for that.

I've fired people smarter than he thinks he is.

You seem like a douche.

[kalvano]

Show me the data that says a UPenn or Berkley or Cornell grad in the top 25% of his class has a better shot at Dallas Biglaw than a person in a similar position at SMU.

Show me the data that says a HLS 2L at median has a better shot at San Diego BigLaw than a USD 2L at median. That can't be done, either, but you better believe it's true.

So you're taking the position that you're right, even though you can't prove it and the stats that have thus far been posted counter your argument?

Maybe you should ask UVA for a refund.

[kalvano]

I already addressed those numbers.The overwhelming majority of SMU work in Dallas; mostly due to lack of options. UT sends grads everywhere, OOS and other TX cities. If UT grads attempted to work in Dallas the same way SMU grads do, SMU would be in trouble.

The question is which school provides the best opportunity for biglaw in Dallas. Not, which school places more grads in Dallas biglaw.

You didn't address anything except throw out the stats from the "Go-To" list of schools. Which aren't terribly relevant to the argument at hand since they don't break down where the students go, unlike the list I quoted, which lists Dallas Biglaw firms and where they draw their employees.

[kalvano]

Insult fail.

I was waiting for that.

I've fired people smarter than he thinks he is.

You seem like a douche.

I've already admitted to that. I am a total jerk. Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

[Bustang]

Show me the data that says a UPenn or Berkley or Cornell grad in the top 25% of his class has a better shot at Dallas Biglaw than a person in a similar position at SMU.

Show me the data that says a HLS 2L at median has a better shot at San Diego BigLaw than a USD 2L at median. That can't be done, either, but you better believe it's true.

So you're taking the position that you're right, even though you can(t) prove it and the stats that have thus far been posted counter your argument?

Maybe you should ask UVA for a refund.

Welcome to any and all discussions about the T14. Enjoy your stay.

[RVP11]

Show me the data that says a UPenn or Berkley or Cornell grad in the top 25% of his class has a better shot at Dallas Biglaw than a person in a similar position at SMU.

Show me the data that says a HLS 2L at median has a better shot at San Diego BigLaw than a USD 2L at median. That can't be done, either, but you better believe it's true.

So you're taking the position that you're right, even though you can't prove it and the stats that have thus far been posted counter your argument?

Maybe you should ask UVA for a refund.

The "stats" tended to prove my argument.

Among your supporters, I count only two people: a fellow with a 156 and someone who was considering how high in the class they think they'll rank in determining which law school to attend. Both 0Ls.

[RVP11]

don't break down where the students go, unlike the list I quoted, which lists Dallas Biglaw firms and where they draw their employees.

Never heard of self-selection?

UT's placement is divided among DFW/Houston/Austin/outside of TX. SMU places much more strictly into DFW. Raw numbers aren't going to prove your point.

[kalvano]

Show me the data that says a UPenn or Berkley or Cornell grad in the top 25% of his class has a better shot at Dallas Biglaw than a person in a similar position at SMU.

Show me the data that says a HLS 2L at median has a better shot at San Diego BigLaw than a USD 2L at median. That can't be done, either, but you better believe it's true.

So you're taking the position that you're right, even though you can't prove it and the stats that have thus far been posted counter your argument?

Maybe you should ask UVA for a refund.

The "stats" tended to prove my argument.

Among your supporters, I count only two people: a fellow with a 156 and someone who was considering how high in the class they think they'll rank in determining which law school to attend. Both 0Ls.

Which ones, the magical ones that prove you correct but you can't show to people not in the secret club, or the ones posted that show SMU pretty much dead even with UT in Dallas?

[kalvano]

don't break down where the students go, unlike the list I quoted, which lists Dallas Biglaw firms and where they draw their employees.

Never heard of self-selection?

UT's placement is divided among DFW/Houston/Austin/outside of TX. SMU places much more strictly into DFW. Raw numbers aren't going to prove your point.

Other cities aren't relevant, though, since we are discussing which is better for Dallas.

[RVP11]

Find a stat that shows a SINGLE BigLaw Dallas firm hires as deep or deeper into the class from SMU than from UT and I'll gladly STFU.

[RVP11]

don't break down where the students go, unlike the list I quoted, which lists Dallas Biglaw firms and where they draw their employees.

Never heard of self-selection?

UT's placement is divided among DFW/Houston/Austin/outside of TX. SMU places much more strictly into DFW. Raw numbers aren't going to prove your point.

Other cities aren't relevant, though, since we are discussing which is better for Dallas.

You can't actually be this stupid.

[madmartigan]

I already addressed those numbers.The overwhelming majority of SMU work in Dallas; mostly due to lack of options. UT sends grads everywhere, OOS and other TX cities. If UT grads attempted to work in Dallas the same way SMU grads do, SMU would be in trouble.

The question is which school provides the best opportunity for biglaw in Dallas. Not, which school places more grads in Dallas biglaw.

You didn't address anything except throw out the stats from the "Go-To" list of schools. Which aren't terribly relevant to the argument at hand since they don't break down where the students go, unlike the list I quoted, which lists Dallas Biglaw firms and where they draw their employees.

This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.

And firing smart people as a credibility enhancer, really?

[vanwinkle]

Every lawyer I've talked to in Dallas disagrees with the idea of SMU>UT in Dallas. I'll take their word and the actual data over another fellow 0L.

I lived in Dallas before coming to UVA, almost literally across the street from the SMU campus, and I can say that ITE it seemed like a bloodbath in the Dallas market for SMU grads. I heard of folks in the top 20% not getting law firm jobs in Dallas. It's that bad right now from what I hear. I understand going to SMU if it's your only option and/or you have a huge scholarship there, but anyone who think it gives them an edge over someone with a UT degree and the same grades is delusional.

For law firms in Texas, I'd recommend the following:

1) T14 + "Texas ties" (real ones, like, being from there)
2) UT
3) Any other Texas law school, with $$$$

It seems like having an out-of-state law degree is a real setback for Texas politics, but not for law firm hiring. Firms love diversity of degrees and having folks from prestigious institutions in their ranks. UVA looks stronger in the Texas market than most T14s, but I suspect that's partly because so many folks come to UVA from Texas with the intention of going back. Schools further north like Penn and Cornell don't get as many folks who're set on that, people who go there are usually looking for NYC or other east coast work if they want BigLaw.

[kalvano]

Among your supporters, I count only two people: a fellow with a 156 and someone who was considering how high in the class they think they'll rank in determining which law school to attend. Both 0Ls.

Glad you missed the current UT student who said (and I quote) -

I hate to tell you, but Kalvano is correct. SMU does have a stronghold on the city. I wouldn't go as far to say that UT is better than SMU, but it far outperforms it's rankings. However, as I believe kalvano also stated, if your ambition is just to stay in Dallas, SMU cannot be beat. However, to get biglaw you DO need to be top ~10%. SMU has an amazing tie to the Dallas, really. I'm not being an SMU troll or anything, I chose UT over SMU with a large scholarship, for my own personal reasons.

I've lived in Dallas for a very long time, I went to school in Dallas, and I am very well tied to the SMU law community, and this is what I have heard time and time again.

But hey, what do us 0L's know?

[RVP11]

Glad you missed the current UT student who said (and I quote) -

LOL at "current UT student." Class of 2013 =/= in law school.

And I quote:

They seem to place the same AMOUNT of people in BigLaw, but lower people in the class at UT will have the opportunity to get biglaw, but the top kids at UT tend to go elsewhere.

And even in what you quoted, she admitted that at SMU you probably NEED top 10% for BigLaw. Tell me, friend, do you need top 10% at UT for BigLaw?

[madmartigan]

Every lawyer I've talked to in Dallas disagrees with the idea of SMU>UT in Dallas. I'll take their word and the actual data over another fellow 0L.

I lived in Dallas before coming to UVA, almost literally across the street from the SMU campus, and I can say that ITE it seemed like a bloodbath in the Dallas market for SMU grads. I heard of folks in the top 20% not getting law firm jobs in Dallas. It's that bad right now from what I hear. I understand going to SMU if it's your only option and/or you have a huge scholarship there, but anyone who think it gives them an edge over someone with a UT degree and the same grades is delusional.

For law firms in Texas, I'd recommend the following:

1) T14 + "Texas ties" (real ones, like, being from there)
2) UT
3) Any other Texas law school, with $$$$

It seems like having an out-of-state law degree is a real setback for Texas politics, but not for law firm hiring. Firms love diversity of degrees and having folks from prestigious institutions in their ranks. UVA looks stronger in the Texas market than most T14s, but I suspect that's partly because so many folks come to UVA from Texas with the intention of going back. Schools further north like Penn and Cornell don't get as many folks who're set on that, people who go there are usually looking for NYC or other east coast work if they want BigLaw.

Really? It's anecdotal, but everyone I have spoken with in Dallas/Houston says that Dallas & Houston aren't nearly as affected by the economy as other markets (they usually cite oil companies as the reason, especially in Houston). I still think UT owns over SMU and UH, but I would argue SMU and UH (NLJ250 at like 23% and 18%) are doing pretty well.

[kalvano]

This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.

Well, since we are discussing Dallas and which school it better for Dallas...if German Shepherds could shit gold bricks, I wouldn't bother going to law school. You can "what if" your way into making any argument correct. But it still doesn't change the fact that, if you want to be in Dallas, SMU is the best choice.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Among your supporters, I count only two people: a fellow with a 156 and someone who was considering how high in the class they think they'll rank in determining which law school to attend. Both 0Ls.

Glad you missed the current UT student who said (and I quote) -

I hate to tell you, but Kalvano is correct. SMU does have a stronghold on the city. I wouldn't go as far to say that UT is better than SMU, but it far outperforms it's rankings. However, as I believe kalvano also stated, if your ambition is just to stay in Dallas, SMU cannot be beat. However, to get biglaw you DO need to be top ~10%. SMU has an amazing tie to the Dallas, really. I'm not being an SMU troll or anything, I chose UT over SMU with a large scholarship, for my own personal reasons.

I've lived in Dallas for a very long time, I went to school in Dallas, and I am very well tied to the SMU law community, and this is what I have heard time and time again.

But hey, what do us 0L's know?

1) He didn't agree with you ("I wouldn't go as far to say that UT is better than SMU")
2) I believe he will be attending UT in the fall and is not yet a current student

[RVP11]

This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.

Well, since we are discussing Dallas and which school it better for Dallas...if German Shepherds could shit gold bricks, I wouldn't bother going to law school. You can "what if" your way into making any argument correct. But it still doesn't change the fact that, if you want to be in Dallas, SMU is the best choice.

You're going to struggle in law school. Like, hard. Surround yourself with as many sub-160ers as you can and hope for the best.

[vanwinkle]

And I quote:

They seem to place the same AMOUNT of people in BigLaw, but lower people in the class at UT will have the opportunity to get biglaw, but the top kids at UT tend to go elsewhere.

This is the key point. Historically UT put as many folks into Dallas as SMU, but since some of the top UT kids were going elsewhere, folks who were lower in their class at UT were getting into the Dallas market than SMU kids.

This has been made worse by the recession and its impact on hiring. Hiring has dropped, and with an SMU degree you've only got one market to look at (Dallas) and that's it. Folks going to UT not only have a better chance in Dallas with equivalent grades, but they've got other markets they can access easily if they can't find anything there.

[kalvano]

Glad you missed the current UT student who said (and I quote) -

LOL at "current UT student." Class of 2013 =/= in law school.

And I quote:

They seem to place the same AMOUNT of people in BigLaw, but lower people in the class at UT will have the opportunity to get biglaw, but the top kids at UT tend to go elsewhere.

And even in what you quoted, she admitted that at SMU you probably NEED top 10% for BigLaw. Tell me, friend, do you need top 10% at UT for BigLaw?

I am definitely not your friend, and nice editing -

I hate to tell you, but Kalvano is correct. SMU does have a stronghold on the city. I wouldn't go as far to say that UT is better than SMU, but it far outperforms it's rankings. However, as I believe kalvano also stated, if your ambition is just to stay in Dallas, SMU cannot be beat. However, to get biglaw you DO need to be top ~10%. SMU has an amazing tie to the Dallas, really. I'm not being an SMU troll or anything, I chose UT over SMU with a large scholarship, for my own personal reasons.

I've lived in Dallas for a very long time, I went to school in Dallas, and I am very well tied to the SMU law community, and this is what I have heard time and time again.

That's all I've ever said. If you want to stay in Dallas, SMU is your best bet. Period. Everyone else seems to think that throwing out UT's state placement stats and the portability of the degree, etc., is some kind of response to that, but it's not.

[kalvano]

1) He didn't agree with you ("I wouldn't go as far to say that UT is better than SMU")
2) I believe he will be attending UT in the fall and is not yet a current student

1) See above.
2) It's late.

[vanwinkle]

Really? It's anecdotal, but everyone I have spoken with in Dallas/Houston says that Dallas & Houston aren't nearly as affected by the economy as other markets (they usually cite oil companies as the reason, especially in Houston). I still think UT owns over SMU and UH, but I would argue SMU and UH (NLJ250 at like 23% and 18%) are doing pretty well.

Oh, Dallas & Houston are less affected, sure. However, this is a relative thing; it means "tighter hiring" as opposed to the "no hiring" going on other places. Things are better there, but things are still noticeably worse than they were pre-recession. Hiring fewer people means they can be more selective about who they take, and that impacts folks at lower-ranked schools pretty badly.

[kalvano]

This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.

Well, since we are discussing Dallas and which school it better for Dallas...if German Shepherds could shit gold bricks, I wouldn't bother going to law school. You can "what if" your way into making any argument correct. But it still doesn't change the fact that, if you want to be in Dallas, SMU is the best choice.

You're going to struggle in law school. Like, hard. Surround yourself with as many sub-160ers as you can and hope for the best.

I'm so glad I have someone like you to guide me through it.

Let me know when you make it in the real world, then we can talk.

Until then, you seem to be the one still making claims without supporting evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a central tenet of making an argument is being able to provide evidence to support it? I guess you slept late that day in class.