Law schools in great family places Forum

[03121202698008]

Exceptionally well. Graduating Wharton students from the Class of 2009 averaged nearly 12 job interviews and almost 2 job offers. These Wharton graduates entered jobs in over 20 industries and 60 job functions, and had an average starting salary of over $59,852. You can see career plans surveys here.

Wow, almost two offers.

Which is way better than the zero offers that over half of college grads ended up with at graduation last year.

True, but 9% still didn't have jobs and were looking. $30K a year for HS, then whatever Wharton costs for UG...that's a lot of debt for $80-90K and a 9% chance you don't work at all.

[Danteshek]

I debated posting this for like 10 min...

If you're going to proudly declare to everyone that you got what you paid for at your "elite" $30,000/yr high school because you and your classmates all attend such elite schools and do such impressive things, then it's fair game to point out that you transferred to a T2 IMHO.

Humility begets respect, but arrogance begets humility as I was once told.

I <3 you for this.

Whatever dude. I did well in law school because I learned how to write well at HW and Wesleyan. Incidentally, I got a paid 1L summer job with the Securities and Exchange Commission and an internship with a federal judge in the Fall.

The vast majority of my classmates at both schools who went to law schools went to elite law schools.

[03121202698008]

I debated posting this for like 10 min...

If you're going to proudly declare to everyone that you got what you paid for at your "elite" $30,000/yr high school because you and your classmates all attend such elite schools and do such impressive things, then it's fair game to point out that you transferred to a T2 IMHO.

Humility begets respect, but arrogance begets humility as I was once told.

I <3 you for this.

Whatever dude. I did well in law school because I learned how to write well at HW and Wesleyan. Incidentally, I got a paid 1L summer job with the Securities and Exchange Commission and an internship with a federal judge in the Fall.

The vast majority of my classmates at both schools who went to law schools went to elite law schools.

You've got to admit that it's still ironic considering your talk of "elite" schools following HW.

[20160810]

Wait, I missed this, but are we calling Wesleyan an elite school now too?

[Danteshek]

Wait, I missed this, but are we calling Wesleyan an elite school now too?

I am!

[Danteshek]

Boys and girls, this has been fun. I have a softball game to play. Behind the WW2 Memorial, on the National Mall. Come join, if you want.

[thechee]

Exceptionally well. Graduating Wharton students from the Class of 2009 averaged nearly 12 job interviews and almost 2 job offers. These Wharton graduates entered jobs in over 20 industries and 60 job functions, and had an average starting salary of over $59,852. You can see career plans surveys here.

Wow, almost two offers.

Which is way better than the zero offers that over half of college grads ended up with at graduation last year.

True, but 9% still didn't have jobs and were looking. $30K a year for HS, then whatever Wharton costs for UG...that's a lot of debt for $80-90K and a 9% chance you don't work at all.

I don't buy that you NEED to go to a great high school to go to a great college. Most of the time, it's not the school. It's the kids, and more importantly, the families they came from. I went to an incredibly crappy unaccredited high school in eastern Europe where all the textbooks where printed at Bob Jones U Press (not even kidding), but still got into a bunch of T10 UG schools, as did a number of my friends. Generally, kids whose parents had gone to good colleges went to good colleges at my HS.

As far as college debt, people usually forget that at top UGs, if you don't have money for your education, they give it to you. At Penn, if your family makes less than 90k, you don't get a tuition bill now, just room and board. My parents hardly paid a dime for my education, and I left a 48k/yr liberal arts college with less than 18k in debt.

And still, 9% unemployment isn't too shabby. Better than most law schools are managing these days.

[czelede]

Whatever dude. I did well in law school because I learned how to write well at HW and Wesleyan. Incidentally, I got a paid 1L summer job with the Securities and Exchange Commission and an internship with a federal judge in the Fall. The vast majority of my classmates at both schools who went to law schools went to elite law schools.

Given the overwhelming number of students that matriculate into elite colleges from public high schools, I would be willing to guess that many public schools are capable of teaching their students to write well too. Just a venture. While I don't disagree that private schools can give great educations, I beg to differ that the difference is worth $90k. I think you have given us ample evidence of that.

[03121202698008]

I actually just read an article talking about how bad summer vacations are. Apparently, what your kid does over the summer is way more important than where they go to school. Even kids from shitty schools showed a ~200 point SAT increase and 3-4 grade-levels in English and Math if they were forced to read books and practice math an hour a day throughout the summer.

[thechee]

I actually just read an article talking about how bad summer vacations are. Apparently, what your kid does over the summer is way more important than where they go to school. Even kids from shitty schools showed a ~200 point SAT increase and 3-4 grade-levels in English and Math if they were forced to read books and practice math an hour a day throughout the summer.

Not sure where this comment came from, but I totally agree.

Take it up with the teacher's unions though.

[sundevil77]

I actually just read an article talking about how bad summer vacations are. Apparently, what your kid does over the summer is way more important than where they go to school. Even kids from shitty schools showed a ~200 point SAT increase and 3-4 grade-levels in English and Math if they were forced to read books and practice math an hour a day throughout the summer.

Not sure where this comment came from, but I totally agree.

Take it up with the teacher's unions though.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in Outliers. It fits in with his "10,000 hours" theory.

[03121202698008]

I actually just read an article talking about how bad summer vacations are. Apparently, what your kid does over the summer is way more important than where they go to school. Even kids from shitty schools showed a ~200 point SAT increase and 3-4 grade-levels in English and Math if they were forced to read books and practice math an hour a day throughout the summer.

Not sure where this comment came from, but I totally agree.

Take it up with the teacher's unions though.

Malcolm Gladwell talks about this in Outliers. It fits in with his "10,000 hours" theory.

I read that...and something in The Economist...and something in Time come to think of it. US students spend the most hours in the classroom but the fewest days and have one of the lowest scores. Most of Europe has a shorter school day but a shorter summer vacation.

[jks289]

I don't want to contribute to the derail, as actually fascinating as it is. (Hat tip and gold stars to SoftBoiledLife on saying what we were all thinking.)

To return the OP to where we started. Things like private school tuition (or the public school alternatives) make what might be a nice place to live decidedly less attractive. I do think you may be going about this the wrong way. Apply to your schools. Depending on how high that 170+ actually is blanket everything below Berkeley, through maybe WUSTL. Throw in safeties in regions you think could be interesting (Davis, U Washington, Colorado, wherever.) At the end of the process you will have stack of concrete options and financial offers. You and your wife will have to decide among those options what makes the most sense for your family. Don't get bogged down in hypothetical situations or huge questions of where in the entire country you might consider living. Don't compromise on school quality to go to a region you think you might like (ie Pepperdine) because you'll be signing up for something long term that may end up being incredibly limiting. Put your energy into crafting a great application, you have serious splitter numbers and are non-traditional, so things like personal statement are going to be enormous factors. Good luck!

[Danteshek]

Whatever dude. I did well in law school because I learned how to write well at HW and Wesleyan. Incidentally, I got a paid 1L summer job with the Securities and Exchange Commission and an internship with a federal judge in the Fall. The vast majority of my classmates at both schools who went to law schools went to elite law schools.

Given the overwhelming number of students that matriculate into elite colleges from public high schools, I would be willing to guess that many public schools are capable of teaching their students to write well too. Just a venture. While I don't disagree that private schools can give great educations, I beg to differ that the difference is worth $90k. I think you have given us ample evidence of that.

You are right that for me an expensive college was probably not worth it. However, it is almost always worth it for the few high school students nationwide who are truly intellectually inclined (I wasn't. I was a Football jock).

I had a great experience in high school, so I do think that was worth it.

[20160810]

Wait, I missed this, but are we calling Wesleyan an elite school now too?

I am!

Actually just looked up rankings, and I'll give you that one. I only applied to UCs out of HS, so I don't know much about LACs.

[Remnantofisrael]

I don't want to contribute to the derail, as actually fascinating as it is. (Hat tip and gold stars to SoftBoiledLife on saying what we were all thinking.)

To return the OP to where we started. Things like private school tuition (or the public school alternatives) make what might be a nice place to live decidedly less attractive. I do think you may be going about this the wrong way. Apply to your schools. Depending on how high that 170+ actually is blanket everything below Berkeley, through maybe WUSTL. Throw in safeties in regions you think could be interesting (Davis, U Washington, Colorado, wherever.) At the end of the process you will have stack of concrete options and financial offers. You and your wife will have to decide among those options what makes the most sense for your family. Don't get bogged down in hypothetical situations or huge questions of where in the entire country you might consider living. Don't compromise on school quality to go to a region you think you might like (ie Pepperdine) because you'll be signing up for something long term that may end up being incredibly limiting. Put your energy into crafting a great application, you have serious splitter numbers and are non-traditional, so things like personal statement are going to be enormous factors. Good luck!

Best advice yet. My biggest reason for even asking these questions at this stage is that I want some idea of where to ED. I went to charlotsville (originally my first choice) a few weeks back and was very VERY unimpressed. The campus is amazing, but the town is not what it had been sold as, so-to-speak. taking UVA off my "ED" status changed things a bit.

Also, I CURRENTLY have a 170 from June's LSAT, but due to a STUPID bubbling error at the end of Logic Games, I missed 4 questions (long story I don't need to rehash), and had no AC in high temps, with windows open and construction AND grass-cutting outside. So I DO expect to improve the score, opening up my options.

[holborn]

although the derailment has been fascinating, I wanted to direct this to the OP:

Ann Arbor has one of the best school systems, especially if you are in the Skyline/Pioneer HS districts. (No offense to Huron kids). I grew up there and it was a fantastic place to live. Tons of stuff to do as a kid. Because ann arbor is such a highly educated town, there is a noticeable focus on academic things. There are most academically focused camps, exhibits, etc geared towards children. There are many sports leagues, ways to become involved in music, art, dance, whatever. There is a real sense of community about the place (in terms of the graduate community, neighborhoods, and Ann Arbor as a whole). I HIGHLY encourage you to look closely at UofM. I almost went back there for law school because I missed it so much, and this is the first year I haven't lived in A2 out of the last 11 years.

feel free to PM me if you have any questions!

[Remnantofisrael]

SO TO SUM UP A BIT FOR ANYONE WHO FINDS THIS POST-

Ann Arbor - great family location, inexpensive, lots to do, academic, kids and parents love it. Great schools. Midwest friendly with the northwest academic style. Cold long winters.

Ithaca- Fun for kids, but not much going on. Decent schools.

Chicago- It can be done well if you are willing to commute a bit into school. There are some good schools and neighborhoods, like in Tinley Park for example. But be prepared to be taxed into the ground and high expenses are the norm.

AustinIf you aren't from texas, good luck getting in. THAT SAID, its an amazing location, solid schools, TONS to do, never gets really cold, and decent cost of living.


LA area- Beautiful with some nice areas and always stuff to do for kids and parents alike. REALLY expensive to live there and TERRIBLE public schools. Good private schools, even in the 12k per year range.

Twin Cities- Hidden gem, fun, booming, quality of life and education mixed with low cost of living. BRUTAL winters. Great place for families.

Charlotsville- Not bad, good climate, decent schools. Not a lot of people said much one way or the other.

PhillY & DC - You won't live in Philly/DC, but the commutes aren't terrible, and while very costly, there are quality subs that have decent schools, etc.

Bay area (SF, Oak) - The cost of living is quite high, but the K-12 school systems are amazing, crime is low (at least in the south and north bays -- avoid Oakland/Richmond/etc.), weather is great, etc. Some of the schools (Lowell) are awesome, but others are pretty horrible, and I've been told there is some kind of bizarre raffle as to which one you get to go to.

I'll edit this/edit the original post eventually if people want to include details on other schools- just post them and Ill copy them into my edit later.

Thanks everyone for the help. Seems that Ann Arbor followed by Chicago (northwestern) would be my best bet at this time. Right now I'll just be focusing on raising that 170. With my GPA and work experience (6 years working mail room to director of a team of 20+ accountable for the biggest chunk of profits in the entire company, then my own startup) I feel like I'll have a shot at Northwestern but need to boost my LSAT to have a shot at Michigan.

[BioEBear2010]

What about the SF Bay Area? The cost of living is quite high, but the K-12 school systems are amazing, crime is low (at least in the south and north bays -- avoid Oakland/Richmond/etc.), weather is great, etc.

[Remnantofisrael]

Adding. I left it out initially because I'm sort of below Berkeley on this list (I figure anyone who gets into Harvard, Yale, Stanford, NYU, Berkeley or chicago will just go there regardless). But if I'm putting Mich and Penn in, I should put Berekeleye in(sorry, stupid inside joke).

[20160810]

What about the SF Bay Area? The cost of living is quite high, but the K-12 school systems are amazing, crime is low (at least in the south and north bays -- avoid Oakland/Richmond/etc.), weather is great, etc.

Public schools in SF are a mixed bag. Some of the schools (Lowell) are awesome, but others are pretty horrible, and I've been told there is some kind of bizarre raffle as to which one you get to go to.

[swc65]

Ithaca is amazing for kids. The parks are unparelled. There are tons of private schools too which are not overly expensive.

[BioEBear2010]

What about the SF Bay Area? The cost of living is quite high, but the K-12 school systems are amazing, crime is low (at least in the south and north bays -- avoid Oakland/Richmond/etc.), weather is great, etc.

Public schools in SF are a mixed bag. Some of the schools (Lowell) are awesome, but others are pretty horrible, and I've been told there is some kind of bizarre raffle as to which one you get to go to.

I was thinking more of the South Bay for schools. Gunn/Mission/Saratoga/etc are great. Berkeley High isn't all that bad, either.

[texanokie]

I also have a family, plus a background in geography/urban planning, and am well-traveled within the US, and based on what you're looking for, I'd offer the following recommendations:

1. Research Triangle area, NC (Duke, UNC, etc.)
2. Chicagoland (I would live in certain suburbs, though, for the schools, or plan on paying for private education; it does get cold here, though - much colder than CT)
3. Atlanta/Athens, GA (Emory, UGA)
4. Dallas or Austin, TX (Texas, SMU)
5. Los Angeles (living in either Orange County or San Gabriel Valley suburbs for schools)
6. Nashville, TN (Vandy)
7. Washington, DC (so long as you live in the Virginia or Montgomery County, MD suburbs)

[Remnantofisrael]

I also have a family, plus a background in geography/urban planning, and am well-traveled within the US, and based on what you're looking for, I'd offer the following recommendations:

1. Research Triangle area, NC (Duke, UNC, etc.)
2. Chicagoland (I would live in certain suburbs, though, for the schools, or plan on paying for private education; it does get cold here, though - much colder than CT)
3. Atlanta/Athens, GA (Emory, UGA)
4. Dallas or Austin, TX (Texas, SMU)
5. Los Angeles (living in either Orange County or San Gabriel Valley suburbs for schools)
6. Nashville, TN (Vandy)
7. Washington, DC (so long as you live in the Virginia or Montgomery County, MD suburbs)

Its funny- I've been told that NC isn't great for kids, and that Nashville is over-rated. Further, that DC area is either TERRIBLE or STUPID expensive (like the bigger cities).
I am a big fan of Athens, (Weaver D's ftw), hate atlanta with a fiery passion, and just don't understand how chicago works- my wife grew up there however so I trust her that the close-by suburbs don't fall prey to the "rotation" in, say, Brooklyn, where an area is nice, so bad elements move in, crime increases, education falls, and the community/friendlier/educated move to a new area.