We're A1L mad here - TLS C/O 2020 Thread [New Pole] Forum

[Rigo]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

[amta]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

says the dude with like 68 pairs of chacos.

[Stay-at-Home Son]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

this is me

[Stay-at-Home Son]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Interesting, was that an intentional small 'r' or did you literally mean it's an alternative to being a Republican? Someone in the latter camp can't be serious or just misunderstands the ideology. As for it being common, that hasn't been my experience living in the Northeast, but I'll take it.

[Rigo]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

says the dude with like 68 pairs of chacos.

I'm not a libertarian though.
It's a trendy socially acceptable (or at least not horribly offputting) way of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[ashrice13]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Interesting, was that an intentional small 'r' or did you literally mean it's an alternative to being a Republican? Someone in the latter camp can't be serious or just misunderstands the ideology. As for it being common, that hasn't been my experience living in the Northeast, but I'll take it.

Northeast person here- most of my conservative friends would define themselves as Libertarians before they'd define themselves as Republicans. I think there's a lot of socially liberal 20/30-somethings that are really into what the libertarians have to say.

[Stay-at-Home Son]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Interesting, was that an intentional small 'r' or did you literally mean it's an alternative to being a Republican? Someone in the latter camp can't be serious or just misunderstands the ideology. As for it being common, that hasn't been my experience living in the Northeast, but I'll take it.

Northeast person here- most of my conservative friends would define themselves as Libertarians before they'd define themselves as Republicans. I think there's a lot of socially liberal 20/30-somethings that are really into what the libertarians have to say.

Right, I hear you. The socially liberal dimension definitely appeals to a broader range of people, and that agreement raises questions about why we restrict most behaviors in the first place. I never got the lumping in of libertarians with conservatives though, I don't think of myself as conservative in any sense, I don't even really understand what they believe in.

[Kopetz]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

says the dude with like 68 pairs of chacos.

I'm not a libertarian though.
It's a trendy socially acceptable (or at least not horribly offputting) way of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Libertarianism has been conservatism 4 teenz for at least a decade now

e: sorry that was mostly in response to amta's original post

[poptart123]

Don't Libertarians end up hating pretty much everyone (cept Ron Paul), or is that just me?

Rand/Ron Paul, Justin Amash, Thomas Massie are the four heavy hitters.

[jjcorvino]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

says the dude with like 68 pairs of chacos.

I'm not a libertarian though.
It's a trendy socially acceptable (or at least not horribly offputting) way of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Libertarianism has been conservatism 4 teenz for at least a decade now

e: sorry that was mostly in response to amta's original post

Didn't everyone have a libertarian phase when they were in high school?

[ashrice13]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Interesting, was that an intentional small 'r' or did you literally mean it's an alternative to being a Republican? Someone in the latter camp can't be serious or just misunderstands the ideology. As for it being common, that hasn't been my experience living in the Northeast, but I'll take it.

Northeast person here- most of my conservative friends would define themselves as Libertarians before they'd define themselves as Republicans. I think there's a lot of socially liberal 20/30-somethings that are really into what the libertarians have to say.

Right, I hear you. The socially liberal dimension definitely appeals to a broader range of people, and that agreement raises questions about why we restrict most behaviors in the first place. I never got the lumping in of libertarians with conservatives though, I don't think of myself as conservative in any sense, I don't even really understand what they believe in.

I know what does it for my friends is largely that it's a way to get a conservative platform (pro gun rights, deregulation, etc etc) without all the religious BS. Whether or not that's stupid is certainly up for debate. It's not my party, that's for sure

[Keilz]

Didn't everyone have a libertarian phase when they were in high school?

No lol

[Keilz]

religious BS.

That makes sense. Out of all the things I don't like, it is the coalition between extremist Christians and the republican party.

This is why I'm so fascinated by the Duggars, the Jesus Camp documentary, etc. It's a whole movement that has been happening for years, and it fits perfectly well into this last election.

[Stylnator]

all the libertarians i've ever known are really just conservatives too scared of the backlash from liberals

[Monday]

.

[Rigo]

I think libertarianism is a convenient way to avoid being called a garbage person and pacify socially liberal friends by being all like "rah rah social liberties; government stay out of our bedroom! I just hate taxes!"
But a belief in preserving social liberties is hollow if you end up voting for the party that intends to restrict them.
So really it comes down to their conservative anti-government, capitalism is always great! circle jerk and they're just Republicans with less Bible thumping.
Libertarianism has great untested and unrealistic rhetorical appeal as a single-villain ideology (just blame the government!) but its adherents are too intellectually simple and generally don't get complexity.

Just be like "I'm pretty socially liberal but social liberties aren't really a deal breaker for me so I don't mind voting against those rights." It's at least way more honest.

[Rigo]

all the libertarians i've ever known are really just conservatives too scared of the backlash from liberals

Yeah this is right on the money. It's putting lipstick on a pig.

[ashrice13]

So really it comes down to their conservative anti-government, capitalism is always great! circle jerk and they're just Republicans with less Bible thumping.

basically what my libertarian friends are....you just said it waaayyyy better and funnier than I did.

Just be like "I'm pretty socially liberal but social liberties aren't really a deal breaker for me so I don't mind voting against those rights." It's at least way more honest.

+180

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

Libertarianism is just American conservatism with the acceptance that sometimes people love other people of the same sex, sometimes people want to do drugs, and sometimes people have a need to end a pregnancy while it's still non-viable. Oh and biggest thing, sometimes when you give a human a gun and basically carte blanche to control the citizenry they ABUSE THAT RIGHT.

Honestly it makes perfect sense that young people going to law school would be on board with all or most of those sentiments so I get why traditional republicanism is not really represented here.

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

shocked, not stunned. libertarianism is the new republicanism for millennials and gen-Yers.

Hipstertarian

says the dude with like 68 pairs of chacos.

I'm not a libertarian though.
It's a trendy socially acceptable (or at least not horribly offputting) way of being a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Libertarianism has been conservatism 4 teenz for at least a decade now

e: sorry that was mostly in response to amta's original post

Didn't everyone have a libertarian phase when they were in high school?

Came into highschool a libertarian (lol), and had my communist phase while in high school. Luckily those credit transferred and I got to graduate to "pretentious to both sides" centrism before I even left college

[Keilz]

single-villain ideology

Also applies to Trump with immigrants, and Bernie with Millionaires and Billionaires.

[poptart123]

I think many of you are making stretches by stereotyping libertarianism, often mixing it with anarchy. F. A. Hayek and Milton Friedman, two people libertarians love to worship, actually don't call for an end to all social programs and even say some are necessary. The views are a plenty more nuanced than they are made out to be in this thread.

When I think of libertarianism I think of John Locke, Frederic Bastiat, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, George Mason, some of John Stuart Mill, Hayek, Friedman, Richard Epstein, Murray Rothbard, Robert Nozick, and Ayn Rand to some extent. Obviously each will have their own flavors, but the views are much more than "get out of my bedroom and let me have a gun." They often question the legitimacy of government action based on the logic of individual rights and autonomy. Utilitarian in a way that they want the best for the most--the most liberty for all--without interfering on the rights of others. Kantian in a way as well in that each action should be justified in itself, and not by the end result.

[guynourmin]

I think many of you are making stretches by stereotyping libertarianism, often mixing it with anarchy. F. A. Hayek and Milton Friedman, two people libertarians love to worship, actually don't call for an end to all social programs and even say some are necessary. The views are a plenty more nuanced than they are made out to be in this thread.

When I think of libertarianism I think of John Locke, Frederic Bastiat, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Mason, some of John Stuart Mill, Hayek, Friedman, Richard Epstein, Murray Rothbard, Robert Nozick, and Ayn Rand to some extent. Obviously each will have their own flavors, but the views are much more than "get out of my bedroom and let me have a gun." They often question the legitimacy of government action based on the logic of individual rights and autonomy. Utilitarian in a way that they want the best for the most--the most liberty for all--without interfering on the rights of others. Kantian in a way as well in that each action should be justified in itself, and not by the end result.

As I'm reading it, no one is really talking about libertarianism, they're talking about the people who call themselves libertarians.

[Stay-at-Home Son]

I've only met a small number of libertarians whose stance was internally consistent and coherent. Others seemed to just like the idea of the label. But, it's just plain rare for someone to have an internally consistent ideology that aligns so neatly to these categories. I find clinging onto these "teams" one of the more problematic aspects of U.S. politics.

Also, what is Aleppo?

Lol^ perfect example of someone using the label without bothering to build a solid ideological foundation. Probably 100% of the "libertarians" I've met have never read anything, they just wanna be different or something.

[poptart123]

I think many of you are making stretches by stereotyping libertarianism, often mixing it with anarchy. F. A. Hayek and Milton Friedman, two people libertarians love to worship, actually don't call for an end to all social programs and even say some are necessary. The views are a plenty more nuanced than they are made out to be in this thread.

When I think of libertarianism I think of John Locke, Frederic Bastiat, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton, George Mason, some of John Stuart Mill, Hayek, Friedman, Richard Epstein, Murray Rothbard, Robert Nozick, and Ayn Rand to some extent. Obviously each will have their own flavors, but the views are much more than "get out of my bedroom and let me have a gun." They often question the legitimacy of government action based on the logic of individual rights and autonomy. Utilitarian in a way that they want the best for the most--the most liberty for all--without interfering on the rights of others. Kantian in a way as well in that each action should be justified in itself, and not by the end result.

As I'm reading it, no one is really talking about libertarianism, they're talking about the people who call themselves libertarians.

Oh yeah, those can be completely different, and too often are.