UVA Law Class of 2019 Forum

[urbanist11]

Discuss: Is UVA worth it without any scholarship?

No

Why not? Which schools are? How much scholarship makes it worth it?

Too much debt. It's all subjective in that everyone has different financial situation and comfort with debt. For me I'd say UVA is worth it at 1/2 tuition or more. I wouldn't personally go to any school at sticker, but it depends on your goals.

[Nagster5]

Depends on your personal situation and goals. If you would be devasted personally with anything less than prestigious biglaw, go to the place with the best numbers at sticker if nessecary. Most people view the career oportunity tradeoff of low T14 w/ money vs high T14 at sticker as very worth going to the lower ranked school, same with low T14 at sticker vs a strong regional with money. If your parents are bankrolling you, you have a strong preference for a certain region, have a unique or higly competitive career goals (V5 Biglaw or bust), these things can all change the calculus signifigantly. The consensus is that for most people nothing outside of HYS is worth it at sticker (excpet maybe UT @ in state), and even then you probably have a signifigant discount at a T6 that would make it a hard decision.

[coldmonkey13]

~

[herecomesthesun]

While I understand sticker is a huge amount of money, a school like UVA has really quite solid big law numbers. If you're prepared to sacrifice some post grad years doing really brutal hours to pay down your debt, sticker isn't unmanageable. TLS is the most debt-averse environment I've ever encountered and I'm not sure I understand why.

While my employment prospects coming out of a T14 are certainly better than either of my parents' professions, they're still paying down student debt from 25 years ago. That is enough to scare me away from debt. However, I'd consider sticker if it ends up being my best option.

[urbanist11]

While I understand sticker is a huge amount of money, a school like UVA has really quite solid big law numbers. If you're prepared to sacrifice some post grad years doing really brutal hours to pay down your debt, sticker isn't unmanageable. TLS is the most debt-averse environment I've ever encountered and I'm not sure I understand why.

"Solid" biglaw #s = ~60-70% if you include clerkships that often result in biglaw positions. So there's still at least a 30% chance you won't get a biglaw job. You've never worked biglaw, so I'm not sure how you can know that you are prepared to say you can work brutal hours for multiple years - in fact the evidence suggests that most people can't handle it and leave after 2-3 years.

If you can get into UVA, you can most likely (not always the case), get into one or more of Cornell, NU, Mich, or Duke with $.

Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, so I'd say being adverse to debt is very healthy.

[coldmonkey13]

~

[RedWhite&Blonde]

While I understand sticker is a huge amount of money, a school like UVA has really quite solid big law numbers. If you're prepared to sacrifice some post grad years doing really brutal hours to pay down your debt, sticker isn't unmanageable. TLS is the most debt-averse environment I've ever encountered and I'm not sure I understand why.

"Solid" biglaw #s = ~60-70% if you include clerkships that often result in biglaw positions. So there's still at least a 30% chance you won't get a biglaw job. You've never worked biglaw, so I'm not sure how you can know that you are prepared to say you can work brutal hours for multiple years - in fact the evidence suggests that most people can't handle it and leave after 2-3 years.

If you can get into UVA, you can most likely (not always the case), get into one or more of Cornell, NU, Mich, or Duke with $.

Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, so I'd say being adverse to debt is very healthy.

All very valid points, I suppose my perspective is significantly altered by two factors. Firstly, I just view debt as a normal part of life and don't think that it's necessarily something to super duper be afraid of. Is there a chance to not get big law? Absolutely. In terms of my suitability you're again correct but that's a different discussion (maybe we can have during orientation in August ). Secondly, I finished my undergrad with 0 debt because of my cheap tuition so this degree will be all I have to pay back.

Congrats on undergrad with no debt! That's amazing! That said, I think that definitely changes the calculations but it comes down to personal factors/preferences.

[herecomesthesun]

Not to keep harping on this, but I'm struggling with not hearing anything on merit aid. Obviously there's still time, but with each passing day, I get more concerned. I have relatively good numbers for UVA and I strongly indicated in the interview and my Why UVA that I loved UVA and really want to attend. It's my top choice. But I don't know how much more I can indicate that to them.

[urbanist11]

Not to keep harping on this, but I'm struggling with not hearing anything on merit aid. Obviously there's still time, but with each passing day, I get more concerned. I have relatively good numbers for UVA and I strongly indicated in the interview and my Why UVA that I loved UVA and really want to attend. It's my top choice. But I don't know how much more I can indicate that to them.

I sympathize, but I think it's pretty out of your hands at this point. I would just be patient and be prepared to try to negotiate with your other offers. If you are competitive at UVA you should have plenty of other good options to work with - and to fall back on if UVA doesn't pan out!

[willmarriesann]

Hi class of 2019,

I currently live at the at the Pavilion at North Grounds.

I'll be moving out this June and I currently have a lease signed for 2016-2017.
Please let me know if anyone wants to take over my lease (starting this JUNE)

My room is a 1 bed with a living room.

I think it's one of the best rooms in the Pavilion; it's the closest room to the law school.

I am currently paying $1375 with Water, internet, cable + all the amenities & furniture included!

I have an additional desk (LARGE) at the living room that I can leave if you are interested.

Please PM me or email me if you are interested at
paradise6216@gmail.com

[fliptrip]

Hello fellow future Hoos:

Caught this interesting discussion about $ in the applicants thread and followed it over here.

1. Is UVA worth it at sticker? No, emphatically no, unless you're an extreme splitter. This is simply because if you have UVA at sticker as an option, you likely have something like Cornell with a significant discount. You'll have to adjust your goals to NYC biglaw, but Cornell is a good bet with a substantial discount. This requires getting over the prestige thing, but I think the objective choice is clear. Now if you're a sub 3.0 splitter who managed to get UVA, you're kind of living on borrowed time anyway, so I could see UVA at sticker being the best option. If I'm a super splitter and I have UVA at sticker vs. GW with a 1/4 discount, I'd go to UVA. Considering that, can you believe that 57% of UVA students are paying full tuition per UVA's ABA 509 report?

2. It seems that UVA provides a limited amount of need-based aid. What the financial aid office said about Pell Grants is right about graduate school, of course, but that doesn't mean that UVA would not consider your financial need in a scholarship offer. I don't know if they split a scholarship award into need-based and merit-based components, so who knows if you'll be able to tell how much or little need-based aid you get.

3. The debt discussion is a good one. I think the debt aversion on TLS is generally healthy. Debt, like most powerful things, can be very helpful if used properly and completely destructive if used carelessly. It's also dangerous because especially with student loans, its very easy to acquire and damn near impossible to escape. Also, student loan debt is the rare debt in which you get all the benefit before you suffer any of the costs. Your debt, even if you're on PAYE, will severely constrain your financial (and in some ways, other) freedom while you have it. With $300,000 in debt, you're going to have a hell of a time buying a house and you will not be building nearly as much savings as you otherwise could and you just never know when you're going to need to have savings. I'm an old fart and one of the only lessons I've really learned in life is that shit happens. It's a great idea to have as much shit happens insurance as you can, and a large debt load limits that. I also see the other constraints on your freedom as real. What if you discover some new interest in eastern medicine and you'd like to go live in Nepal for a year to explore that? Guess what, if Uncle Sam has your ass in a sling for $300k, you can't go without causing significant harm to yourself. If you have no debt, you can be on the next plane to Kathmandu!

I really like the way debt is discussed on TLS, because it does work to bring the costs of debt closer together with the benefits of it. I think that helps us all make better decisions in the long run.

[doobleykah]

Also, student loan debt is the rare debt in which you get all the benefit before you suffer any of the costs.

What does this mean?

[fliptrip]

Also, student loan debt is the rare debt in which you get all the benefit before you suffer any of the costs.

What does this mean?

I mean only that you get to go to class, learn, get a job, make friends, bask in the prestige and all of that with your student loans before you have to make a single payment. With pretty much every other kind of debt, the costs of the debt start happening pretty quickly after you start enjoying the benefit. Think about a car loan...#1 you have to usually put some equity into the transaction, so you have already paid something before you get anything and your first payment is usually 45 days after you buy the car, so you aren't enjoying much for very long before you start paying.

Imagine if you got to drive your car for 3 years before you had to make a payment. It might be harder to think about the payment at the time you buy it...

[doobleykah]

Also, student loan debt is the rare debt in which you get all the benefit before you suffer any of the costs.

What does this mean?

I mean only that you get to go to class, learn, get a job, make friends, bask in the prestige and all of that with your student loans before you have to make a single payment. With pretty much every other kind of debt, the costs of the debt start happening pretty quickly after you start enjoying the benefit. Think about a car loan...#1 you have to usually put some equity into the transaction, so you have already paid something before you get anything and your first payment is usually 45 days after you buy the car, so you aren't enjoying much for very long before you start paying.

Imagine if you got to drive your car for 3 years before you had to make a payment. It might be harder to think about the payment at the time you buy it...

Education loans are literally the only kind of loan that I can think of where you actually DELAY gratification. If I buy a car, I drive it home. If I buy a house, I move in. I understand you wanting to have a positive outlook but I don't think making bros should be within the realm of justifications for taking on thousands of dollars in debt.

Also I have never heard the words "get to go to class" in that order.

[fliptrip]

Also, student loan debt is the rare debt in which you get all the benefit before you suffer any of the costs.

What does this mean?

I mean only that you get to go to class, learn, get a job, make friends, bask in the prestige and all of that with your student loans before you have to make a single payment. With pretty much every other kind of debt, the costs of the debt start happening pretty quickly after you start enjoying the benefit. Think about a car loan...#1 you have to usually put some equity into the transaction, so you have already paid something before you get anything and your first payment is usually 45 days after you buy the car, so you aren't enjoying much for very long before you start paying.

Imagine if you got to drive your car for 3 years before you had to make a payment. It might be harder to think about the payment at the time you buy it...

Education loans are literally the only kind of loan that I can think of where you actually DELAY gratification. If I buy a car, I drive it home. If I buy a house, I move in. I understand you wanting to have a positive outlook but I don't think making bros should be within the realm of justifications for taking on thousands of dollars in debt.

Also I have never heard the words "get to go to class" in that order.

Alrighty, you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I believe that being in school is so much more gratifying than working that it's not even a discussion. Regardless, you clearly have a discipline with respect to taking on debt that will serve you quite well. My point is that it is easy to not have that sort of discipline and if you don't you could be in a lot of trouble.

[James.K.Polk]

For students admitted to UVA Law for the Fall of 2016 (yay!), let's talk about Financial Aid ...
In an attempt to promote good information (as opposed to urban legends) and to ease your anxiety a bit (hey, we know that paying for law school is stressful!), we want to share a few important tidbits:
1) Today (2/19) is the priority deadline for filing the Need Access (required for institutional need-based aid, i.e. scholarships) and FAFSA (required for federal aid, i.e. student loans) forms.
If you are ONLY applying for student loans, you ONLY need to complete the FAFSA, and you DO NOT need to submit parental information. You can also submit the FAFSA at any time between now and the end of the 2016-2017 school year, with the understanding that the bill for the Fall 2016 term is due in mid-August. If you need to use student loans to pay that bill, please file the FAFSA no later than July 31, 2016.
2) YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING ON SIS YET. Nothing. Nada. Even if you have already been awarded a merit scholarship, it isn't on SIS yet. That all happens March 3, so you don't need to check back until then, because there is nothing to see until then. Probably after lunch on March 3. smile emoticon (I promise we will get all of the aid online as fast as we can that day, but please be patient with us. There are a lot of moving pieces and parts!)
3) Some of you have already been notified of merit awards, as some of those have been going out via snail mail on a rolling basis. Merit aid is awarded by our scholarship committee, and as you are a brilliant and accomplished group, it's a competitive process. We review EVERY applicant for merit aid, based on your admission application, and by March 3, we expect to have released most, if not all, of those awards. Bottom line - check SIS on March 3 (not at 8AM. Later than that. You will get an email from us to tell you aid has been posted.) (For future reference during your Law School career: Sandy is the only morning person on the FA staff. smile emoticon If you need something important before 9:30AM, see Sandy. If you are approaching Jennifer or Helen at that hour, you should bring coffee.)
4) If you are stressed about paying for law school, and/or have questions about financial aid, call us. Email us (lawfinaid AT virginia.edu). We love hearing from you, and we really do want to help. (To protect your privacy, don't post questions here. Call or email the office, so that we can keep your information safe.)
5) No, we cannot tell you if you are going to get a merit- or need-based scholarship. Truth. We really can't. (Keep that in mind for #4.) Merit scholarships are awarded by a committee (see #3) and need-based decisions haven't been made yet (see #1, the forms were just due today.) For everybody waiting on merit award decisions and everybody who meets today's priority filing deadline, we will post awards on March 3. In the meantime, let me suggest thinking about what an amazing time we all are going to have at Admitted Students Open House! Or maybe planning another time to visit. Either way, come see us. We can talk in person, and we would love that!
Bottom line - check back March 3, and be in touch if you need us. We are here to help you in any way we can, and we really love doing that!

From Facebook (you're welcome).

[pittsburghpirates]

From Facebook (you're welcome).

You da man

[herecomesthesun]

Welp. Rolling basis doesn't give me much comfort.

[slippin_jimmy]

Welp. Rolling basis doesn't give me much comfort.

I'm hoping I log in on the 3rd and find out my offer got lost in the mail.

[herecomesthesun]

Welp. Rolling basis doesn't give me much comfort.

I'm hoping I log in on the 3rd and find out my offer got lost in the mail.

saaaaame.

[Nolachicken]

Does anyone know if we book our own flight with the stipend for ASW?

[James.K.Polk]

Welp. Rolling basis doesn't give me much comfort.

I'm hoping I log in on the 3rd and find out my offer got lost in the mail.

saaaaame.

Agreed. I've pretty much written off UVA. It's fine - I am fortunate to have other great options - but it's a bit odd how little money they give out, relative to peers. Oh well! Those who get the big $$ should feel very lucky!

[Mrs Featherbottom]

Does anyone know if we book our own flight with the stipend for ASW?

Admissions office told me that the reimbursement is mailed out after ASW.

[RedWhite&Blonde]

Does anyone know if we book our own flight with the stipend for ASW?

Yep, they give you the paperwork/send you the check after! It's for 250!

[EnderWiggin]

Yep, they give you the paperwork/send you the check after! It's for 250!

Depending on where you are coming from. The stipend could be anywhere from $0-$400 and is determined by the address you currently have on file. More info: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/admiss ... htm#travel