Should I just give up on the bar?

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cloudyyo

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Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by cloudyyo » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:09 pm

To anyone who has been where I am now,

So I graduated from law school this May. Took the UBE in July 2020, and didn't pass. I was off by 26 points in a jurisdiction that requires 268 to pass. I've been preparing for the Feb 2021 UBE since mid-October.

When preparing for my first attempt, I solely used Themis. Thinking that was a mistake, I decided to focus more on practicing real MBE, MEE, and MPT's using Adaptibar, Emmanuel, and Crushendo.

Nearly seven weeks later, I have not been seeing my MBE practices (open book and untimed) go beyond 60 - 66%. The vast majority of my self-graded MEE practices are still at 3 (also open book and relaxed timing). I also find myself struggling with timing MPT practices.

To think having done all full 10-week prep, having taken the actual UBE, and getting a 2-month head start would place me at a somewhat stronger position, at least, for the practice questions, but it doesn't seem that way. It is frustrating. Heaven knows how much worse it is going to become when I start actually timing myself and doing the questions in closed-book form.

I am seriously feeling discouraged at this point. I feel my efforts are futile. With the fear and trauma of failing once before looming over me, I cannot summon the same confidence and motivation I had during the summer. Should I just give up on the bar?

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cavalier1138

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by cavalier1138 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:49 am

What was your score breakdown on the July bar?

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SilvermanBarPrep

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by SilvermanBarPrep » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:22 am

That 60-66% puts you awfully close to where you need to be on the MBE to put you in a good position to pass the exam with average essays/MPT. These numbers don't at all indicate to me that you should give up on the bar. It's tough to give more specific advice without knowing exactly where things are going wrong (to not see your score increasing) but I just wanted to chime in that those numbers show good potential and that you should keep at it.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by ESQ92 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:10 pm

Here's a random piece of advice. Keep a notebook and divide it for each subject on the MBE. When you grade your MBE practice session, for the ones you got wrong, just write out a one sentence rule statement for the rule in the question that would have allowed you to get it right. Just a one sentence rule. After a couple sessions, you'll have probably a full page for each subject. Then, review this notebook right before you do an MBE practice (it won't take long to review). I did this back when I was studying for the bar and my practice score went from the 50% range to the 90% range.

This worked wonders for me because we often get the SAME types of questions wrong over and over and over again because those specific rules just don't make sense to our brain for some reason. Maybe it's a counter-intuitive rule. Reviewing just the rules that you previously got wrong, and reviewing them every time you go to do an MBE practice, will now make those your best types of questions. Hope this helps.

sleeplessindc

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by sleeplessindc » Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:37 pm

cloudyyo wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:09 pm
Nearly seven weeks later, I have not been seeing my MBE practices (open book and untimed) go beyond 60 - 66%. The vast majority of my self-graded MEE practices are still at 3 (also open book and relaxed timing). I also find myself struggling with timing MPT practices.

Have you come to any sort of a conclusion on the types of MBE questions you're getting wrong and why?

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cloudyyo

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by cloudyyo » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:53 am

sleeplessindc wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:37 pm
cloudyyo wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:09 pm
Nearly seven weeks later, I have not been seeing my MBE practices (open book and untimed) go beyond 60 - 66%. The vast majority of my self-graded MEE practices are still at 3 (also open book and relaxed timing). I also find myself struggling with timing MPT practices.

Have you come to any sort of a conclusion on the types of MBE questions you're getting wrong and why?
Yes. The vast majority of them are based on exceptions within exceptions and nuances of the rules I did not know about, previously.

Sporty1911

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by Sporty1911 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:58 pm

ESQ92 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Here's a random piece of advice. Keep a notebook and divide it for each subject on the MBE. When you grade your MBE practice session, for the ones you got wrong, just write out a one sentence rule statement for the rule in the question that would have allowed you to get it right. Just a one sentence rule. After a couple sessions, you'll have probably a full page for each subject. Then, review this notebook right before you do an MBE practice (it won't take long to review). I did this back when I was studying for the bar and my practice score went from the 50% range to the 90% range.

This worked wonders for me because we often get the SAME types of questions wrong over and over and over again because those specific rules just don't make sense to our brain for some reason. Maybe it's a counter-intuitive rule. Reviewing just the rules that you previously got wrong, and reviewing them every time you go to do an MBE practice, will now make those your best types of questions. Hope this helps.
Could not agree with this more. I did the same thing this summer/fall while studying for the October remote UBE, and it massively increased my practice scores.

OP, I would also suggest just taking time to straight up memorize the exceptions/law that you are consistently missing. Having the rule memorized for UBE was huge for me. It then allows you to focus on the nuances of how the bar examiners test certain subjects and the way in which they ask about certain concepts.

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:25 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:49 am
What was your score breakdown on the July bar?
114 MBE
127 Essays

I only used Themis over the recommended 10-week period, and felt I didn't have enough time to memorize the outlines, let alone practice the questions. It's why I opted to start earlier this round.

cloudyyo

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by cloudyyo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:48 pm

Sporty1911 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:58 pm
ESQ92 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Here's a random piece of advice. Keep a notebook and divide it for each subject on the MBE. When you grade your MBE practice session, for the ones you got wrong, just write out a one sentence rule statement for the rule in the question that would have allowed you to get it right. Just a one sentence rule. After a couple sessions, you'll have probably a full page for each subject. Then, review this notebook right before you do an MBE practice (it won't take long to review). I did this back when I was studying for the bar and my practice score went from the 50% range to the 90% range.

This worked wonders for me because we often get the SAME types of questions wrong over and over and over again because those specific rules just don't make sense to our brain for some reason. Maybe it's a counter-intuitive rule. Reviewing just the rules that you previously got wrong, and reviewing them every time you go to do an MBE practice, will now make those your best types of questions. Hope this helps.
Could not agree with this more. I did the same thing this summer/fall while studying for the October remote UBE, and it massively increased my practice scores.

OP, I would also suggest just taking time to straight up memorize the exceptions/law that you are consistently missing. Having the rule memorized for UBE was huge for me. It then allows you to focus on the nuances of how the bar examiners test certain subjects and the way in which they ask about certain concepts.
What practice prep services did you use?

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Sporty1911

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by Sporty1911 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:31 pm

cloudyyo wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:48 pm
Sporty1911 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:58 pm
ESQ92 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:10 pm
Here's a random piece of advice. Keep a notebook and divide it for each subject on the MBE. When you grade your MBE practice session, for the ones you got wrong, just write out a one sentence rule statement for the rule in the question that would have allowed you to get it right. Just a one sentence rule. After a couple sessions, you'll have probably a full page for each subject. Then, review this notebook right before you do an MBE practice (it won't take long to review). I did this back when I was studying for the bar and my practice score went from the 50% range to the 90% range.

This worked wonders for me because we often get the SAME types of questions wrong over and over and over again because those specific rules just don't make sense to our brain for some reason. Maybe it's a counter-intuitive rule. Reviewing just the rules that you previously got wrong, and reviewing them every time you go to do an MBE practice, will now make those your best types of questions. Hope this helps.
Could not agree with this more. I did the same thing this summer/fall while studying for the October remote UBE, and it massively increased my practice scores.

OP, I would also suggest just taking time to straight up memorize the exceptions/law that you are consistently missing. Having the rule memorized for UBE was huge for me. It then allows you to focus on the nuances of how the bar examiners test certain subjects and the way in which they ask about certain concepts.
What practice prep services did you use?
Themis.

cloudyyo

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Re: Should I just give up on the bar?

Post by cloudyyo » Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:06 pm

SilvermanBarPrep wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:22 am
That 60-66% puts you awfully close to where you need to be on the MBE to put you in a good position to pass the exam with average essays/MPT. These numbers don't at all indicate to me that you should give up on the bar. It's tough to give more specific advice without knowing exactly where things are going wrong (to not see your score increasing) but I just wanted to chime in that those numbers show good potential and that you should keep at it.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Thanks for the helpful input. Update from first post. My MBE averages are sitting at just around 60%. Most of the decrease seems to have to do with me beginning to do Adaptibar focused questions based on the problematic areas I have. Still, the vast majority of MBE questions I am getting wrong involve law nuances and exceptions that I didn't know about before.

My MEE scores seem to be doing a little bit better lately, but again, that can go back down any time....

I am now giving the MPT practices a rest until January.

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