Failed again cali bar

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Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 09, 2020 6:21 pm

Good afternoon

I failed this test again on my 7th attempt. Due to my PT this time around. It's sad . I passed in july 2019 pt but failed essays. This time I passed 3 essays, i scored 83% percentiles locally on mbe 85% nationally but I got 50 on Pt. GOD knows what got wrong. I am not sad but I am lost.
In all past attempts I was atleast was getting 60s on pt lowest. Is it my bad luck or Feb PT was sucks.


I am not finding motivated myself to restart. I need some words of encouragement and wisdom.

Please guide me we I should do and I approach further.

Thank you

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rcharter1978

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Sun May 10, 2020 1:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 6:21 pm
Good afternoon

I failed this test again on my 7th attempt. Due to my PT this time around. It's sad . I passed in july 2019 pt but failed essays. This time I passed 3 essays, i scored 83% percentiles locally on mbe 85% nationally but I got 50 on Pt. GOD knows what got wrong. I am not sad but I am lost.
In all past attempts I was atleast was getting 60s on pt lowest. Is it my bad luck or Feb PT was sucks.


I am not finding motivated myself to restart. I need some words of encouragement and wisdom.

Please guide me we I should do and I approach further.

Thank you
I'm so sorry to hear that.

I'm unclear on what your scores were besides a 50 on the PT. It's possible that it's not a problem with legal knowledge but rather with your writing and organization.

How many essays are there under the new format? I thought it was five, does that mean you didn't pass two? And the three you passed what were the scores there?

Have you ever worked with a writing tutor?

A 60 on a PT is a lot better than a 50 but it's not the best score. The PT is one place where you should be able to really knock it out of the park because you're given everything you need. And I'm not saying this to be dickish, but only to say that it's possible that writing and organization are the issues you need to address.

At this point you have the benefit of two extra months if you want to take the September administration.

I also sometimes consider how unconfident I was after I didn't pass the first time. Not passing can really mess with your head and it's such a slog. I cannot imagine how amplified that feeling would be after seven times.

This is why I wonder if maybe you shouldn't possibly consider taking another bar, maybe in an easier jurisdiction. No bar exam is easy, but I think California is particularly hard and there is a lot of subjectivity built in. Is Nevada a tough bar?

I just think that mentally you may need a win. You can take the CBX again, but I think it could be great for your mental state just to get a win.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 10, 2020 3:02 am

Hi,

My essays scores was after 2nd reading
1.60
2.65
3.62.5
4.60
5.55
6. Pt 50 ...
Mbe locally 85 percentile
Nationally 88 percentile


No I never work with any writing tutor. I took perfoman test calweasal classes on my 3rd attempt and 5th attempt. But, after that I never took those classes.

I guess you are correct mental preparation and self confidence will help me to pad in Sept. I am trying to keep my spirit high.
Thank you so much for your time and response

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rcharter1978

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Sun May 10, 2020 3:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:02 am
Hi,

My essays scores was after 2nd reading
1.60
2.65
3.62.5
4.60
5.55
6. Pt 50 ...
Mbe locally 85 percentile
Nationally 88 percentile


No I never work with any writing tutor. I took perfoman test calweasal classes on my 3rd attempt and 5th attempt. But, after that I never took those classes.

I guess you are correct mental preparation and self confidence will help me to pad in Sept. I am trying to keep my spirit high.
Thank you so much for your time and response
No problem, it happens. It really shook my confidence when I didn't pass once so I know it's hard.

Others who are more practiced can give you a more thorough analysis, but I think it might be a writing and organization issue. You straight up bombed an essay, but out of the other four, you were only like 5 points from a solidly passing score and I don't know if that's maybe because you understand the law but you're not able to express that as well as you'd like.

I would think that's supported by the low PT score.

There are people who are better at the analytics, but, I can tell you that a writing tutor was worth it....FOR ME. Other people do well with baressays, some people use barbri and it works for them.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 10, 2020 1:20 pm

Stay strong. You can't give up now when you have such a rock solid MBE, which is the hardest part of the exam (imo). You need to make an adjustment on the PT. Take the exam again in July, but this time make it a goal to take one practice PT every week until July, at which point it'll become muscle memory. Maybe try taking the PT before the two essays in the afternoon session, perhaps give yourself an extra 15 minutes.

I failed the bar the first time mostly cause of my PT (got a 55), and what worked for me the second time was organizing my outline in examsoft, where I could essentially copy and paste my outline into the actual essay, saving me tons of time and allowing me to write a lot more (I doubled my word count the second time). I think the PT and essays are a test of who can write the most, so the more issues you discuss the higher your score will be. Take a week or two off, then get back to work; you're almost there.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Heyall » Sun May 10, 2020 1:37 pm

Two things which could help your confidence:

1) Next exam is online at home

2) Who knows, they might ease up on grading after the passrate was so low.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 11, 2020 12:13 am

I'm so very sorry to hear that you were not successful this time around. You have an excellent MBE score, so at least you don't have to worry about that part. May I ask which study aids you use for the MBE? That really is an impressive MBE score. You would have passed in any jurisdiction. CA is notoriously hard, and essays are always graded subjectively.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 11, 2020 1:42 am

Thank you all for such a great powerful words and encouragement..
Everyone's post really helping me to take this test positively. I will definitely start doing PT once a week from next week.


I used barmax and Steven emaual tactics and strategies for mbe 6th edition.
Hope this helps to others who needs to increase there mbe.

God's willing I will pass this next bar exam. AMEN..M trying to pray from now and staying positive.

Thank you all for your time and words of encouragement:)

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by ReasonablePersonSSC » Mon May 11, 2020 9:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:42 am
Thank you all for such a great powerful words and encouragement..
Everyone's post really helping me to take this test positively. I will definitely start doing PT once a week from next week.


I used barmax and Steven emaual tactics and strategies for mbe 6th edition.
Hope this helps to others who needs to increase there mbe.

God's willing I will pass this next bar exam. AMEN..M trying to pray from now and staying positive.

Thank you all for your time and words of encouragement:)
The NCBE website has their past PTs for free downloads, and while not the ones California uses, practicing them increases your skills. Also, unlike California, they include Point Sheets that analyze each PT and what the examiners were expecting to see in the answers. They offer insight into decoding the PT.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 11, 2020 11:55 am

Sorry to hear about this! Were you just a few points from passing? I thought with that MBE score, it would be an automatic pass but looks like CA is super tough on the essays.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by jennimarcy » Mon May 11, 2020 12:09 pm

You can do this. I failed the bar six times. I just passed. I started taking the exam in 2015 took it three times with the 3 day test being hard, I had to stop due to helping mom take care of my dad in the final stage of kidney disease. Dad passed in May 2017 so I sat for the Feb 2018 exam and failed with a score of 1299, the three previous administrations were 1199 and 1210 in 2015 and 1220 in July of 2016. So, as you can see I was failing by over 100 points. The J 2018, I made it to the second read after failing by only 7 points, they docked me more points and the final score was 1392, I did things differently, I signed up for Adaptibar and BarExamDoctor which is why my score was so high. I resigned up for both courses and in F 2019 after the second read failed again, 1387. Then I was in a motorcycle accident on May 31st last year while studying for the next admin. I signed up for Adaptibar again but KNEW what I needed to do regarding essays and PT's so didn't sign up for anything else. My doctor told me that I would be healed (broken collar bone) to take the July exam. I was not. Lucky for me, after my husband drove us down to Oakland, the subject matter release gave me an OUT, I declined to take the exam and received my refund. Two weeks later, I found out, my collar bone was shattered and I needed surgery. I had the surgery in the middle of August and started studying for the Feb. 2020 exam. I did it. I passed. YOU CAN TOO!

I promised I would write up a short explanation on how I passed the CA bar exam. It isn't short now.
I would have to say doing practice essays, PT’s and MBE’s is the only way to pass the test. The rest of the bar review material I think are not helpful in passing the exam.
Creating flash cards of my own helped a little.
First, I set up a daily schedule and sticking to it was key.
With my essays, I would read the facts and the question, decided what subject. I outlined putting down every issue I saw, IRAC was important, I made sure I had all the elements of a rule met or, if not met, then made my conclusion according to the facts. Typed my answer, then I TYPED the MODEL ANSWER to see what I missed. At night before falling asleep, I’d say the rule statements to myself over and over again..
I rotated my schedule, if I did 2 essays in the A.M. on Monday, then the afternoon was spent on 33 MBE’s. The next day 33 MBE’s in the a.m. and essays in the afternoon. Every couple of days, when I would normally have 2 essays, I would sub and type 1 essay with a PT. PT always was first and started around 1:30.
With MBE’s, I would only review my wrong answers making a list of why I messed up. I would redo all those wrong answered MBE’s immediately.
I did all the PT’s (90 minute ones) on CA website. I then did the PT’s that are on the GA bar website starting with the most recent and doing at least two a week. After I did a PT, I would type the model answer to see what the graders are looking for.
On exam day, I did the essay just like it was a practice essay, stopping as close to an hour as possible. The afternoon, I did the PT first, was over by 10 minutes, adjusted my time to finish each essay within 50 minutes. I had just a few minutes left, so then I read my PT, made some changes to make it sound more persuasive to the opposing counsel concluding the court would not allow a forced arbitration based on an affiliates contract that our existing contract would be what the court would solely follow (it was fun).
That’s it, and not very different from my previous attempts. What was different this time: typing the model answers. It helped me see what the graders were looking for. I did over 70 essays, 25 PT’s and over 2600 MBE’s, My MBE average overall was 77% of Adaptibar, NCBE and S&T questions.
I could go on and on, but really, practice essays, PT’s and MBE’s are the best way to retain the information needed for the CA Bar exam.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Mon May 11, 2020 12:28 pm

I know this may not be helpful, but something sketchy happened with this bar examination's essay grading. Maybe they need a certain amount of people to fail to maintain revenue from repeat takers? It's perplexing that it takes over four weeks for them to share the essay results with us. Is it so that we calm down and don't pester them amount the inconsistencies in essay grading?

If the Supreme Court of California wants to fix the California bar exam, they would retroactively pass exams within 10-20 points of a passing score. Additionally, they should require much greater transparency regarding the essay grading process.

Enough is enough. It's time for the state bar to finally be transparent.
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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by RVP11 » Mon May 11, 2020 12:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:28 pm
I know this may not be helpful, but something sketchy happened with this bar examination's essay grading. Maybe they need a certain amount of people to fail to maintain revenue from repeat takers? It's perplexing that it takes over four weeks for them to share the essay results with us. Is it so that we calm down and don't pester them amount the inconsistencies in essay grading?

If the Supreme Court of California wants to fix the California bar exam, they would retroactively pass exams within 10-20 points of a passing score. Additionally, they should require much greater transparency regarding the essay grading process.

Enough is enough. It's time for the state bar to finally be transparent.
I don't understand this mentality. If it's so unfair or arbitrarily graded why do the T14 schools all have like 90+% (some even close to 100%) first time pass rates?

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 11, 2020 4:12 pm

Thank you guys,

However, One sad thing i really feel which is putting me down is that knowing so many ppl passed after there past attempted scores were 1392 etc or less. Here, my last july 2019 scores was 1422 and I still did not pass.
All my past 7 attempts out of last 4 attempts i have been failing by 30 to 40oints each time. I am always hanging around between 1340 to 1422 in average except 1st few attempts.
I feel like this test just becoming impossible for me.
But, I dont have any option except keep trying and take this test one more time before passing.
(:

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Tue May 12, 2020 1:06 pm

Something is seriously wrong with the California bar's essay grading. It needs to be challenged. It is inconsistent and many of those who passed actually may not have done as well on the essays as they think they did, but really were saved by their MBE score. There's a reason the pass rate is so low, yet CA's MBE scores are much higher than national. Anyone who received over a 1440 on the MBE should probably have passed as they had sufficient knowledge regarding the black letter law.

There's a reason the CA bar does not release scores for those that pass: they don't want to show how inconsistent their grading is. Also, CA does not want people's anger after finding out bar results to fuel comparisons between varied scores on essays.

The system needs to be challenged. The grading needs to be challenged. CA should retroactively pass scores within at least 10 points of passing after their highest read. This system is total BS, it doesn't make sense that probably the pass rate would have been much more in line with reality of competence if they had followed their previous scaling. I don't believe the scaling process creates a more consistent test.

Please, someone, if you are knowledgeable about how to challenge the CA bar and scores, please please help. People are in pain, their lives are ruined to do an incredibly non-transparent process.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Tue May 12, 2020 1:12 pm

Not sure how many of you have had ABA accommodations, but I have heard that the stacks of essays for those with extra time are actually graded in a separate stack that is graded more strictly than other essays.

If it's true (not sure if it is), then it probably would be in violation of many ADA regulations / be discriminatory.

I'm unaware of any ADA audits to ensure that the California bar does not flag certain essays.

California bar shouldn't be in the business of grading the essays, they have a conflict of interest and are more interested in ensuring revenue than licensing.
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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Tue May 12, 2020 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:28 pm
I know this may not be helpful, but something sketchy happened with this bar examination's essay grading. Maybe they need a certain amount of people to fail to maintain revenue from repeat takers? It's perplexing that it takes over four weeks for them to share the essay results with us. Is it so that we calm down and don't pester them amount the inconsistencies in essay grading?

If the Supreme Court of California wants to fix the California bar exam, they would retroactively pass exams within 10-20 points of a passing score. Additionally, they should require much greater transparency regarding the essay grading process.

Enough is enough. It's time for the state bar to finally be transparent.
Just reading this, and I echo 200%. I've been saying this myself, and hearing it from others. Why does it take four weeks for them to share the essay results? Why haven't they even posted model essays?

Thank you to whoever wrote this, because you typed out my exact thoughts, that I am sure are shared with others who are afraid to say it.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Tue May 12, 2020 1:19 pm

RVP11 wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:28 pm
I know this may not be helpful, but something sketchy happened with this bar examination's essay grading. Maybe they need a certain amount of people to fail to maintain revenue from repeat takers? It's perplexing that it takes over four weeks for them to share the essay results with us. Is it so that we calm down and don't pester them amount the inconsistencies in essay grading?

If the Supreme Court of California wants to fix the California bar exam, they would retroactively pass exams within 10-20 points of a passing score. Additionally, they should require much greater transparency regarding the essay grading process.

Enough is enough. It's time for the state bar to finally be transparent.
I don't understand this mentality. If it's so unfair or arbitrarily graded why do the T14 schools all have like 90+% (some even close to 100%) first time pass rates?
I think OP is saying that this particular bar exam is suspicious. July's bar pass rate was quite high compared to normal, likely due to the leak. Maybe Cal Bar was afraid that they'd lose revenue from the decrease in retakes this time?

I haven't seen the February 2020 repeat pass rate per school breakdown yet

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by Caruthers » Tue May 12, 2020 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 1:12 pm
Not sure how many of you have had ABA accommodations, but I have heard that the stacks of essays for those with extra time are actually graded in a separate stack that is graded more strictly than other essays.

If it's true (not sure if it is), then it probably would be in violation of many ADA regulations / be discriminatory.

I'm unaware of any ADA audits to ensure that the California bar does not flag certain essays.

California bar shouldn't be in the business of grading the essays, they have a conflict of interest and are more interested in ensuring revenue than licensing.
All written answers (those from both 1 and 2 day applicants, accommodated applicants, etc) are inter filed and graded together. Nothing about the applicant, i.e., school, test center, sex, ethnicity, is known to the graders.
I’m curious about your conflict of interest claim. All jurisdictions are responsible for grading their own essays and revenue from applicant fees is used to administer the exam which cannot be cheap.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Tue May 12, 2020 7:45 pm

I can't speak as to Anon's point, but regarding conflict of interest, absolutely there is a possibility that something if off about the standardization practices and there should be an investigation. There literal was a 2016 that gave rise to an article titled: "Fight to Reform California Bar After Audits Skewer Agency for Mismanagement, Lack of Transparency, and Pricey Salaries."

From my understanding, there has not been an increase in transparency. Their mismanagement probably has created the risk of financial problems if their revenue stream from retakers does not continue.

Also, they had refunded quite a bit of people last fall I believe due to the "inadvertent" disclosure of the essay topics. I bet that didn't help considering their fixed expenses of Procters and testing locations remained the same. Plus they probably wasted money on PR consultants, committees, psychometric analysis due to both that scandal and to defend their overpriced salaries.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Wed May 13, 2020 12:01 am

New May 14 letter regarding california bar acknowledges potential for bias in the current grading process.
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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:56 am

retaker_SF wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 7:45 pm
I can't speak as to Anon's point, but regarding conflict of interest, absolutely there is a possibility that something if off about the standardization practices and there should be an investigation. There literal was a 2016 that gave rise to an article titled: "Fight to Reform California Bar After Audits Skewer Agency for Mismanagement, Lack of Transparency, and Pricey Salaries."

From my understanding, there has not been an increase in transparency. Their mismanagement probably has created the risk of financial problems if their revenue stream from retakers does not continue.

Also, they had refunded quite a bit of people last fall I believe due to the "inadvertent" disclosure of the essay topics. I bet that didn't help considering their fixed expenses of Procters and testing locations remained the same. Plus they probably wasted money on PR consultants, committees, psychometric analysis due to both that scandal and to defend their overpriced salaries.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but wouldn't OP (and any other retakers) benefit more from focusing on what they can do to improve their score than from obsessing over anything that suggests maybe the issue was their essay grader?

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rcharter1978

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Wed May 13, 2020 4:35 pm

I wonder if the July pass rate was so high because people were able to get a refund at the last minute. I believe like 800 people did so, right?

This would reduce the total pool by 800 people who probably weren't going to pass and I'd think it would drive the pass rate up.

Not sure if there was an increase in first time Feb 2020 test takers because some people who had been refunded for the July 2019 exam instead chose to take the exam for the first time in February 2020.

If all that is true, it's possible that February pass rate was abnormally low because the people who were likely going to fail their first time in July, just failed for their first time in February.

IIRC February pass rate is historically lower either way.

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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by retaker_SF » Thu May 14, 2020 12:02 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:35 pm
I wonder if the July pass rate was so high because people were able to get a refund at the last minute. I believe like 800 people did so, right?

This would reduce the total pool by 800 people who probably weren't going to pass and I'd think it would drive the pass rate up.

Not sure if there was an increase in first time Feb 2020 test takers because some people who had been refunded for the July 2019 exam instead chose to take the exam for the first time in February 2020.

If all that is true, it's possible that February pass rate was abnormally low because the people who were likely going to fail their first time in July, just failed for their first time in February.

IIRC February pass rate is historically lower either way.
The pass rate they announce is based off the people that complete the exam, not those that withdraw after starting it or finishing it. Almost certain from what I've been reading that the reason the pass rate is so low this past Feb is due to something regarding essay grading being unusual, as well as the scaling process going lower than ever bc mbe mean. So for many, a passing raw essay score in a February 2018 calculator is failing by February 2020 standards.

California Bar Exam will probably need to retroactively pass certain students IMO. We're in the middle of a pandemic. The September 2020 bar is going to be so messy. The last thing they should have is unnecessary people taking it, like those who are qualified to be attorneys and have certainly demonstrated they meet a standard beyond objective minimum competency. (especially if they're already working as a law clerk under attorney supervision)
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Re: Failed again cali bar

Post by rcharter1978 » Thu May 14, 2020 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:02 pm
rcharter1978 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:35 pm
I wonder if the July pass rate was so high because people were able to get a refund at the last minute. I believe like 800 people did so, right?

This would reduce the total pool by 800 people who probably weren't going to pass and I'd think it would drive the pass rate up.

Not sure if there was an increase in first time Feb 2020 test takers because some people who had been refunded for the July 2019 exam instead chose to take the exam for the first time in February 2020.

If all that is true, it's possible that February pass rate was abnormally low because the people who were likely going to fail their first time in July, just failed for their first time in February.

IIRC February pass rate is historically lower either way.
The pass rate they announce is based off the people that complete the exam, not those that withdraw after starting it or finishing it. Almost certain from what I've been reading that the reason the pass rate is so low this past Feb is due to something regarding essay grading being unusual, as well as the scaling process going lower than ever bc mbe mean. So for many, a passing raw essay score in a February 2018 calculator is failing by February 2020 standards.

California Bar Exam will probably need to retroactively pass certain students IMO. We're in the middle of a pandemic. The September 2020 bar is going to be so messy. The last thing they should have is unnecessary people taking it, like those who are qualified to be attorneys and have certainly demonstrated they meet a standard beyond objective minimum competency. (especially if they're already working as a law clerk under attorney supervision)
The point would be that normally there would be a group of people in the July exam who would be unprepared and likely to fail, but because they are unable to withdraw they take the exam, finish it and end up failing. The July 2019 exam allowed these people to withdraw at the last minute and get a refund. Which 800 people did.

Assuming that these 800 or a good percentage of them were destined to fail on a first try....and signed up for February that means that there would be extra people in the February exam who were going to fail, even if they finished the exam.

LOL at the Cal Bar retroactively passing anyone. First, they don't need to. Second, that's a very slippery slope, because everyone is going to find an "exception" they for into.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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