Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

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Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 06, 2020 4:11 pm

I'm going to a New York law firm after graduation. I'm planning to take the exam in IL just to transfer the score to NY. But I'm not seeking admission to IL. IL does not provide courtesy seating. Would that create any ethical issues? Do I have to apply for admission to IL after the exam? Really need some advice. Thanks.

replevin123

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by replevin123 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:20 pm

why can’t the UBE be like the MPRE? An exam offered independent from any state bar. Then you show up to a state with your exam results and do their application with C&F.

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by yankees12345! » Wed May 06, 2020 7:50 pm

This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.

I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.

If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.

Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
Last edited by QContinuum on Wed May 06, 2020 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Deanoned at poster's request.

BOSStongrl

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by BOSStongrl » Thu May 07, 2020 1:55 pm

yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.

I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.

If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.

Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:

"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."

"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam.  Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."

The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "

But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.

So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by goodmanste » Thu May 07, 2020 3:14 pm

BOSStongrl wrote:
yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.

I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.

If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.

Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:

"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."

"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam.  Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."

The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "

But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.

So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
Illinois is not courtesy seating but at the same time it does not require you to pledge to seek admission to the Bar in order to take the UBE.

Can someone cite me something to prove me wrong?

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BOSStongrl

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by BOSStongrl » Thu May 07, 2020 9:30 pm

goodmanste wrote:
BOSStongrl wrote:
yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.

I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.

If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.

Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:

"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."

"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam.  Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."

The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "

But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.

So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
Illinois is not courtesy seating but at the same time it does not require you to pledge to seek admission to the Bar in order to take the UBE.

Can someone cite me something to prove me wrong?
I did a bit of research into it (bored AF and procrastinating from doing finals). Here's what i found

Rule 704. Qualification on Examination

(a) Every applicant for the Illinois bar examination shall file with the Board of Admissions to the Bar both a character and fitness registration application and a separate application to take the bar examination. The applications shall be in such form as the Board shall prescribe and shall be subject to the fees and filing deadlines set forth in Rule 706.
(b) In the event the character and fitness registration application and the separate application to take the bar examination shall be satisfactory to the Board, the applicant shall be admitted to the examination;

Found this language here: http://www.illinoiscourts.gov/SupremeCo ... tm#Rule702

I honestly don't know if that means you simply need to just fill out the application, or if you also need to go through the entire C&F process. But I think at the least you'd need to fulfill all the requirements for C&F which is what a lot of people are trying to avoid (letters of rec., driving records, etc). It would also be difficult to fill out the application and then deny a request for a C&F interview later on I would think. In any event, i would just email them to find out and double check.

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 08, 2020 12:46 am

Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?

All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by doritoslocostacos316 » Fri May 08, 2020 12:24 pm

BOSStongrl wrote:
yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.

I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.

If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.

Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:

"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."

"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam.  Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."

The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "

But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.

So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
Thanks for the info! This has been an insanely frustrating process. I'm curious as to why you say *maybe* New Mexico? Their website lists the final deadline as May 4th.

BOSStongrl

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by BOSStongrl » Fri May 08, 2020 1:14 pm

doritoslocostacos316 wrote:
BOSStongrl wrote:
yankees12345! wrote:This is likely to create issues for you OP. You need to find a courtesy admission state. Otherwise you’ll probably have to declare your intent to seek admission to the IL bar in the application. You could take the UBE, get admission to IL, then transfer the UBE score to NY. But that’s expensive and time consuming. Otherwise you’re exposed to ethical issues by falsely certifying your intent to gain admission in IL.

I’ve looked into this and basically decided to wait it out. May New York will come to their senses and offer the second administration at the end of September. My understanding right now is that only NJ, NH, and ME are courtesy admission states with a registration deadline that hasn’t passed for the September bar. And ME stopped accepting applications today cause they’re full. They maybe accept more if social distancing is relaxed by July. Even taking one of these and transferring it is going to cost and arm and a leg more than just taking New York. If you PM me, I can send you the little spreadsheet I made with this information.

If I had more motivation, I would put my efforts into pressuring New York to host that second fall administration. They are really stiffing a bunch of people for no good reason by not doing so.

Edit: Accidental anon, don’t know how to fix, I’m yankees12345!
I agree that OP will definitely have an issue if they don't seek admission. I did a little research into this, and some state's websites explicitly say that you cannot do this. For example, here's some of the language I found:

"As the UBE in Tennessee is used to determine competency to practice law in Tennessee, only bona fide applicants to the Bar of Tennessee may seek admission by examination. Courtesy seating at the examination for applying for admission in another jurisdiction or already licensed in Tennessee is not permitted."

"By submitting an application to sit for the Vermont bar, applicants are certifying that they intend to become licensed in Vermont upon passage of the bar exam.  Recall that false statements on a bar application can form the basis of professional disciplinary action."

The only states with courtesy seating are: Arizona, Arkansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Iowa, Maine, and Oregon (it says Alaska too, but Alaska's website says they don't). This can be found on the NCBE's website (here: http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf). So i'm not sure where you found that NJ and NH have courtesy seating. Unless i'm missing something which I hope I am. But NH's website explicitly says "NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT OFFER COURTESY SEATING. Applicants are limited to those who are making good-faith applications to become members of the New Hampshire bar. "

But otherwise, Maine is full, the rest of the deadlines have passed except for MAYBE New Mexico- however you have to take a test similar to NY's NYLE which can be a pain.

So OP's options are basically to try for NM, or to seek admission to the jurisdiction and immediately waive into NY after passing the C&F- which can be expensive but If OP is in big law the expenses *shouldn't* be an issue. But i would NOT sit at a non-courtesy seating jurisdiction and not seek admission. Just don't do it.
Thanks for the info! This has been an insanely frustrating process. I'm curious as to why you say *maybe* New Mexico? Their website lists the final deadline as May 4th.
sorry to cause confusion! I only briefly looked into NM a while back and I wasn't positive what the due date was or whether it passed. Also wasn't sure if because they moved the date of the bar if the deadline moved as well. However, it looks like Oregon is actually still in play, so I should have cited that jurisdiction instead.

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QContinuum

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by QContinuum » Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?

All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
So a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.

Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.

Third (again not Illinois-specific, and some/all of this may not even apply to IL), and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in another state, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy the other state's CLE requirements. So that's a big minus. Critically, some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has an "inactive" status. Other states may not have an "inactive" status, but may at least allow you to resign from the bar. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. In a state without "inactive" status and that doesn't let you resign from the bar, you're effectively forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, of course, but that could potentially make it challenging to get admitted to other state bars down the road.

Edited 5/10/2020 for clarity. -QContinuum

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 10, 2020 1:00 pm

I got confirmation from a file reviewer that IL does not require you to seek admission.
QContinuum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?

All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
So a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.

Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.

Third, and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in IL, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy IL's requirements. So that's a big minus. Some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has "inactive" status. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. Once you get in, you're forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, but that could make it challenging to get admitted to any other state bars down the road.

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 10, 2020 4:50 pm

QContinuum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?

All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
So a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.

Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.

Third, and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in IL, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy IL's requirements. So that's a big minus. Some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has "inactive" status. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. Once you get in, you're forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, but that could make it challenging to get admitted to any other state bars down the road.
Thanks for the detailed reply, it's much appreciated!

1) C&F was included with the IL bar application, and it really wasn't too bad.

2) Your last point really freaked me out, but I checked and IL seems to have the "inactive" status option.

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 10, 2020 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 1:00 pm
I got confirmation from a file reviewer that IL does not require you to seek admission.
QContinuum wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 5:25 pm
Anonymous User wrote:Not the OP and really confused now. Firm said they will cover all transfer-related fees if I took the UBE in another jurisdiction. Signed up for IL thinking I can just transfer the UBE score as another poster above mentioned. If all costs are going to be covered, is there any downside to taking in IL and transferring to NY? An earlier poster mentioned that the process is time consuming. How bad is it really to get admitted to IL first and then quickly transfer to NY?

All this is just so aggravating. Perhaps I should've known this before I registered for IL, but with finals + other stresses right now I didn't want to worry about spots filling up and having to take the bar in Feb. But now I'm even more worried. Can someone help me out here? Thank you.
So a few things. First, even in a non-"courtesy seating" state, while you ultimately need to apply for admission to that state's bar, you can "port" the UBE score to NY and apply for NY bar admission via transferred UBE score as soon as the score comes out. You don't need to wait to be barred in IL before "porting" the UBE score to NY. So that's a plus.

Second (and this is not Illinois-specific, and some of this may not even apply to IL), going through C&F can be a hassle. Even if your record is completely unblemished, you'll still need to get each of your employers (and employment's often defined very broadly, to include volunteer work, TA/RA positions, unpaid internships etc. which are typically not thought of as "employment") to fill out an additional employer affidavit. In some states this requirement only applies to "legal" employers, in others it applies to "all" employers. You'll need to get each of your moral character affirmants to fill out an additional letter of support. You'll potentially need to collect more records and forms from state DMVs and from your law school. Some of these forms may need to be wet-signed and mailed in; others may even need to be notarized. Don't underestimate the amount of work this takes.

Third, and this is the big kahuna, once you get admitted in IL, you'll be on the hook for ongoing CLE and registration fees and requirements. The fees will probably be OK, especially if your firm keeps covering them, but the ongoing CLE requirements may be a major pain. NY CLE may not satisfy IL's requirements. So that's a big minus. Some states have an "inactive" status where you can pay reduced fees and avoid CLE requirements if you don't practice in that state, but other states don't. You should check whether IL has "inactive" status. The worst states are those that don't even allow you to resign from the bar - CA falls into this camp. Once you get in, you're forced to keep doing CLE and paying registration fees until you die (!). It's possible to simply not comply and fall out of good standing, but that could make it challenging to get admitted to any other state bars down the road.
Wait. Really? I thought IL wasn't a courtesy seating state. If you can clarify that would be super helpful!

secondsemester

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Re: Taking the UBE but not seeking admission?

Post by secondsemester » Fri May 22, 2020 9:51 pm

Does anyone have more information on this?

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