2020 September California Bar Exam

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2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by BarEssays » Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:32 pm

Now that the July 2020 exam is not happening, I've created this new thread for the upcoming September 2020 California Bar Exam.

Here's an order from the California Supreme Court about the exam, which will be administered online:

https://newsroom.courts.ca.gov/news/cal ... QPVN_ax8Ug

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by BarEssays » Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:51 pm

My guess is that they will use the Exam Monitor remote testing/proctoring software, which is part of ExamSoft.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by a male human » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:21 pm

Thanks for the September version. I'll list some resources that might be helpful, based on years of posting in these California bar threads.


Recommended resources

These resources seem helpful to CA bar takers. Feel free to suggest your ones you've found helpful!
[+] Spoiler
Investing in resources is an indicator of success, but you also shouldn't just buy everything willy nilly. The more choices you have, the more confused you're likely to be (and waste time on things that ultimately don't help).

So what are you supposed to buy? Well, I did the testing for you, as well as gather intel on what seems to be working for other California bar takers. On my second attempt at the CA bar, I've tried some that helped me pass, and I've tried some that didn't add any value. I won't include the latter.

Below is a list of resources I picked out that should give you the most bang for your buck. No need to overcomplicate things or go broke. Do your due diligence, pick a few resources that will work for you, and scrape all the meat off the bone.

You may not have the patience or mental energy to think about this if you're shell-shocked, gripped by anxiety, or overwhelmed with this beast of a task. You might be going through a rollercoaster of feels.

That's OK. Take solace in knowing that all the information and materials are out there. All you need to do is USE them.


Quick notes on the most effective supplements for...

- MBE on a budget? Emanuel's Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Volume 1 7th ed. (see description and an inside look below -- will set you back ~$60-90)
- MBE if you have $365 to shell out? AdaptiBar (see description below and a detailed review)

Which one should you get? You can improve your MBE with either or both of these excellent tools. S&T has a broad selection of questions (over 750 questions including a full simulated exam) as well as excellent explanations, which is where you learn after doing the questions. Get AdaptiBar if you have the budget or if you want more questions to practice on. AdaptiBar has all the official questions (including Civ Pro questions) but not the best explanations. You could alternatively get the NCBE MBE study aids (don't get both since AdaptiBar should include these questions; also, only the Simulated MBEs have answer explanations).

- Essays? BarEssays.com (see info and samples below, as well as a review)

- PTs? I don't know of a sure-kill supplement, but I have put together a guide (ver. 1.6c). Unlike the MBE or essays, PTs are better learned through exposure to a variety of them over trying to deeply understand the answer. Look at the past PTs and the sample answers. Focus a bit more on rules and analysis (vs. issues and rules for essays)


Search by [star-ID] to jump to the description of a featured resource, tagged by sections of interest:

[*1] Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Vols. I & II (Emanuel) + Civ Pro resources [MBE]
[*2] AdaptiBar ($30 off) [MBE]
[*3] Law in a Flash [MBE] [Essays]
[*4] BarEssays.com ($25 off) [Essays]
[*5] Past CA essays and performance tests (and a guide to own the PTs) [Essays] [PTs]
[*6] Options for condensed outlines and approach sheets [MBE] [Essays]


[*1] Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Volume 1 (Emanuel 7th edition): This is the MBE bible.

It's great (and may be the only MBE supplement you need) because it comes with 750+ representative MBE questions that are all genuine and were previously administered (now including 30 real Civ Pro questions and the author's explanations). I encourage you to study with the real deal for the most part, although you can mix in some simulated questions to vary the style of questions.

Each subject is prefaced with a discussion of the tricky areas and how to deal with them. Some subjects have an overview of the major topics. There will be tips that revolve around multiple choice in general. The 200-question practice test at the back can be done to gauge your progress sometime in the final month leading to the bar.

How to use: Read the primer for each subject, answer every question on a separate sheet, and analyze their explanation in their entirety, including (A) through (D) for each question, including questions you get correctly. So essentially, go through the book cover to cover (which is what I did). It's worth it.

So what does it look like inside? Pics incoming:
Subject overview
Questions
Explanations

Link: 7th edition (2016) -- includes past Civ Pro questions

Get it in very good condition at least so that you don’t see the previous owners’ markings. Will run you about $50-90 (price fluctuates a lot).

If you have the 6th edition, you can still make good use of it. Decide whether these key differences between 6th and 7th are worth it to you:

- 30 actual Civ Pro questions (with explanations by the author). Civ Pro questions were author-written in the 6th edition
- New questions that have been tested more recently in other subjects

If you don't have either the 6th or the 7th edition, get the 7th edition.

I do not recommend the 5th edition.


[*1] Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Vol. 2 (Emanuel): This is the expansion pack to Volume 1, containing different questions. It's in a format where the answer appears right beneath the question. If you're doing a question for practice, you'll have to carefully cover the answer as you do each question.

The valuable feature in Vol. 2 is how the questions are categorized into labeled topics. For example, Q45 on page 166 is filed under Chapter 5 Formal Proceedings -- I. Grand Jury Proceedings -- A. Self-incrimination and immunity.

For better or worse, some headings contain answer spoilers for the concepts, e.g., Q46 on page 167 is filed under B. No right to have attorney present in grand jury room, which gives away the answer.

Nonetheless, if you liked Volume 1, this is great for additional authentic MBE questions, especially if you know or want to improve on specific issues.

How to use: Get it as an optional add-on to Volume 1. Don’t get it without Volume 1. Use as a supplement for specific issues.

What it looks like inside:
Question (1)
Question (2)
Table of contents (index)

Link: 2012 (latest) edition


AdaptiBar (below) is another great addition or alternative to the above Emanuel's books. It comes with the entire universe of questions released by the NCBE, at a higher cost.

Scroll down to [*7] for more information. Here a detailed review. Feel free to PM me for a $30 coupon.

If you're re-enrolling, there's a substantial discount, no need for a coupon.


[*1] What about Civ Pro? There aren't a lot of questions to practice with.

You can still get official Civ Pro questions from the 7th edition of S&T, AdaptiBar, or the MBE study aids store. Note that some study aids may not come with explanations.

For free Civ Pro MBE questions...

- BarPrepHero has a practice exam with 30 Civ Pro questions here, not written by the NCBE.
- The NCBE offers 10 sample questions here.



[*2] AdaptiBar ($395/365): You know what this is for.

If you're on the fence, check my detailed review (which some bar prep person took certain "inspirations" from)... AdaptiBar Review: Is It Worth It?

This program is web-based and accessible via PC (desktop or laptop) and mobile devices. It automatically adapts and adjusts to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

In total, there are at least 1,955 MBE questions (all 1,530 original NCBE-released questions + 200 simulated Civil Procedure questions + 15 new Real Property questions + 210 official questions from the now-unavailable 2017 MBE Study Aid including at least 30 past Civ Pro questions). Subject performance and timing analysis feedback are provided. In addition, the program allows users to create printable PDF reports of questions that were answered incorrectly.

Moreover, the online app adapts to your strengths and weaknesses and can create customized full-length tests, too. Additional information regarding the program can be found https://www.adaptibar.com/pricing/

Link: AdaptiBar

It is indeed rather expensive, but it’s probably the single best comprehensive option to study for the MBE, assuming you have the budget. Feel free to reach out for an offer code for $30 off.

If you're re-enrolling, there's a substantial discount, no need for a coupon.



[*3] Law in a Flash cards: I bought 6 boxes of these to patch up my weak subjects. They were especially handy when I had to be out, like when I was waiting in line at Starbucks to buy some scones to bribe a friend to give me used Barbri books, and I could whip out a few cards from my wallet to learn some tricky Evidence concepts. Or when I was trying to learn about federal jurisdiction while waiting inside a noisy store.

I'm generally against flashcards, but I have to admit that working through the various hypothetical scenarios helped explain the concepts.

Link: List of LIAF products



[*4] BarEssays.com: One of the most popular resources for California essays you'll see mentioned around the forums.

What does it look like inside?

BarEssays Review.

Here's a sample: Check out this essay that scored an 85! Imagine if you studied this and produced the same results on the bar...

If you're wondering what makes a passing essay vs. what doesn't on the California Bar Exam, this is a large repository of actual graded essays and PTs submitted by those who didn't pass.

But this doesn't mean the essays are all sub-par! While there are essays scored 40 and 50 that show what is not passing material, there are essays that earned 75, 80, or even 85.

The advantage of this repository is the variety of real answers you can study.

The State Bar's selected answers are top of the top answers. It's unrealistic that your essay answers will look like them, although you could study these ideal answers to learn how to apply any rules you're confused about. One answer taught me Rule 12(b)(6) because some nerd had written a treatise on it.

There are over 3,000 essays that you can search by subject, range of score, year/month, and even typed/handwritten/both for anyone worried about handwriting. Some have grader commentary.

These essay examples are useful after you outline or write out an essay to check whether you discussed relevant issues and rules and used the facts properly. I'd look at least one below and one above 65, with grader commentary if available.

High scorers tend to discuss all the issues and much of the nuances—but do not necessarily have excellent rule statements or analyses. While you want to look like the 70-75+ people, you’ll notice that they don’t always look like the impossible Barbri answers. These are real answers you can compare to see where you stand.

Link: BarEssays

Feel free to PM me for a coupon code that will save you $25 on a subscription.

You can also check out a free essay answer bank for more sets of graded student essays.



[*5] Past essays and performance tests: These might be the only free things you get from the CA State Bar. They release exam questions from each administration of the past 5 years.

Link: State Bar of California Past Exams

Note that there aren't too many 90-minute CA PTs posted as of yet. I'd practice with MPTs, which are also 90 minutes long.

I've also put together a guide to own the PTs (v. 1.6c), with a step-by-step approach to answering a PT, strategies (including how to not run out of time), templates, and where to find more MPTs than you'll ever need.

Or find links and downloads to CA essays and PTs and MPTs here.

If you need to quickly find California essays organized by subject, here is an essay locator -- a list of essays organized by subject and issues contained therein (you can help fill in the issues).



[*6] Options for condensed outlines and essay approach

- Lean Sheets are a well-known short outline available for all 50 states. A basic but budget-friendly option.
- Magicsheets are comprehensive condensed outlines organized in logical groups and indentations.
- Approsheets are essay approach sheets (one pager checklists and flowcharts) that take you from a blank page to a finished essay or outline. These sheets help you make sure you’re attacking all relevant issues and answering each essay completely. You get ZERO points for an issue that you never raise, even if you know the rule for it. An IRAC can't sprout from a seed that's never planted.
Extremely detailed guide from a first-time passer of the 2018 CA July bar exam (40.7% pass rate) (forwarded to me by the author)
[+] Spoiler
https://irenehong.co/2019/05/12/the-ultimate-guide-to-how-i-passed-the-california-bar-exam/
Previous TLS threads you can dig through for extra help
[+] Spoiler
2020 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=303600
2019 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=300726
2019 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=298763
2018 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=286381
2018 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=283574
2017 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=274836
2017 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=271217
2016 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=260090
2016 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=260833
2015 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=244425
2015 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=240022
2014 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=225140
2014 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=220409
2013 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=213457

Snowflake1

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Snowflake1 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:55 pm

This is going to be the craziest test. How are they going to prevent people from hiding notes or their phone or another computer in the bathroom?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Animal_Activist » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:09 am

What happens if the wifi in my house gets messed up on the day of the exam or the day before? We need a back up location to take this at. On top of that, not having the test on paper, especially the performance test, makes the essay part slightly more difficult. Why not just charge us the money required to register for the bar exam and provide the option to work under an attorney for several years and receive a license to practice law.

This archaic exam that requires rote memorization and quick application to facts under time constraints is nonsense. You will get more competent lawyers without the bar exam but with other means of proving competency.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by hastingsgal » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:47 am

Animal_Activist wrote:What happens if the wifi in my house gets messed up on the day of the exam or the day before? We need a back up location to take this at. On top of that, not having the test on paper, especially the performance test, makes the essay part slightly more difficult. Why not just charge us the money required to register for the bar exam and provide the option to work under an attorney for several years and receive a license to practice law.

This archaic exam that requires rote memorization and quick application to facts under time constraints is nonsense. You will get more competent lawyers without the bar exam but with other means of proving competency.
No way they would ever let people practice without the bar. It's just not going to happen. The bar members who had to suffer through the exam would be up in arms.

They will have a challenge bringing it online while dealing with all of the technological issues though. All in 4.5 months. It's going to be a mess.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Snowflake1 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:56 am

hastingsgal wrote:
Animal_Activist wrote:What happens if the wifi in my house gets messed up on the day of the exam or the day before? We need a back up location to take this at. On top of that, not having the test on paper, especially the performance test, makes the essay part slightly more difficult. Why not just charge us the money required to register for the bar exam and provide the option to work under an attorney for several years and receive a license to practice law.

This archaic exam that requires rote memorization and quick application to facts under time constraints is nonsense. You will get more competent lawyers without the bar exam but with other means of proving competency.
No way they would ever let people practice without the bar. It's just not going to happen. The bar members who had to suffer through the exam would be up in arms.

They will have a challenge bringing it online while dealing with all of the technological issues though. All in 4.5 months. It's going to be a mess.
My prediction is that they will do it with some online software but it's not going to work out perfectly and there's going to be a ton of controversy. Also is the NCBEX going to play along and find a way to test the MBE online with the risk of someone photographing the questions?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by james11 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:59 am

I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by hastingsgal » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:37 am

Apparently there's a chance they won't be able to test the MBE

https://blog.baressays.com/get-ready-fo ... -bar-exam/

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Snowflake1 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:02 pm

hastingsgal wrote:Apparently there's a chance they won't be able to test the MBE

https://blog.baressays.com/get-ready-fo ... -bar-exam/
Wow there's so much that can wrong with this online idea. I don't get why the court was so insistent on it. Why not just rent a bunch of extra testing spaces and make sure people are distanced?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by barjamie8 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:53 pm

Are bar prep courses going to start on time in May? Or are they delayed as well?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by barjamie8 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:54 pm

hastingsgal wrote:
Animal_Activist wrote:What happens if the wifi in my house gets messed up on the day of the exam or the day before? We need a back up location to take this at. On top of that, not having the test on paper, especially the performance test, makes the essay part slightly more difficult. Why not just charge us the money required to register for the bar exam and provide the option to work under an attorney for several years and receive a license to practice law.

This archaic exam that requires rote memorization and quick application to facts under time constraints is nonsense. You will get more competent lawyers without the bar exam but with other means of proving competency.
No way they would ever let people practice without the bar. It's just not going to happen. The bar members who had to suffer through the exam would be up in arms.

They will have a challenge bringing it online while dealing with all of the technological issues though. All in 4.5 months. It's going to be a mess.
I agree there's no way they would have let people practice without the bar. The diploma privilege movement was a pipe dream.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Snowflake1 » Fri May 01, 2020 11:31 am

Are they charging the same fees for September? I wouldn't be surprised if they charge a "remote proctoring" fee.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri May 01, 2020 3:05 pm

james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by james11 » Fri May 01, 2020 3:23 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri May 01, 2020 4:06 pm

james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by james11 » Fri May 01, 2020 4:17 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.
I think running through my outlines would have caused me to recognize at least 1 or 2 extra issues which would be at least 10 points on the essays. This was the difference of passing and failing for me. I could have also quickly checked rule statements. If you plan it ahead you could have an elaborate set up in the bathroom to quickly reference any subject.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by barjamie8 » Fri May 01, 2020 4:55 pm

james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.
I think running through my outlines would have caused me to recognize at least 1 or 2 extra issues which would be at least 10 points on the essays. This was the difference of passing and failing for me. I could have also quickly checked rule statements. If you plan it ahead you could have an elaborate set up in the bathroom to quickly reference any subject.
I think if you are borderline passing it could absolutely make a difference to reference notes.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri May 01, 2020 5:06 pm

barjamie8 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.
I think running through my outlines would have caused me to recognize at least 1 or 2 extra issues which would be at least 10 points on the essays. This was the difference of passing and failing for me. I could have also quickly checked rule statements. If you plan it ahead you could have an elaborate set up in the bathroom to quickly reference any subject.
I think if you are borderline passing it could absolutely make a difference to reference notes.
It would make no more difference than just having a nicer grader.

If you bomb an essay ten extra minutes with your notes is not going to help.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri May 01, 2020 5:13 pm

james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.
I think running through my outlines would have caused me to recognize at least 1 or 2 extra issues which would be at least 10 points on the essays. This was the difference of passing and failing for me. I could have also quickly checked rule statements. If you plan it ahead you could have an elaborate set up in the bathroom to quickly reference any subject.
If you bombed an essay, you weren't going from a 55 to a 65 because you had ten extra minutes with your notes. That's a pipe dream. Ten points are like two minor issues, and if you're bombing an essay, it's not because you're missing small issues it's because you're missing huge issues.

So, in the span of a hypothetical ten minutes you were going to both spot issues AND check rule statements. Come on now.

LOL, please outline this elaborate bathroom set up for me. Do you have a tutor in your bathroom? A Greek chorus of other law students? Does each person in this theoretical bathroom group have a subject or are we just to assume that they all know everything, or are you going to roundtable everyone's questions for 10 minutes and everyone is going to get an answer?

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Snowflake1 » Fri May 01, 2020 7:02 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.
I think running through my outlines would have caused me to recognize at least 1 or 2 extra issues which would be at least 10 points on the essays. This was the difference of passing and failing for me. I could have also quickly checked rule statements. If you plan it ahead you could have an elaborate set up in the bathroom to quickly reference any subject.
If you bombed an essay, you weren't going from a 55 to a 65 because you had ten extra minutes with your notes. That's a pipe dream. Ten points are like two minor issues, and if you're bombing an essay, it's not because you're missing small issues it's because you're missing huge issues.

So, in the span of a hypothetical ten minutes you were going to both spot issues AND check rule statements. Come on now.

LOL, please outline this elaborate bathroom set up for me. Do you have a tutor in your bathroom? A Greek chorus of other law students? Does each person in this theoretical bathroom group have a subject or are we just to assume that they all know everything, or are you going to roundtable everyone's questions for 10 minutes and everyone is going to get an answer?
How about a panel of tutors and students in the bathroom that discuss and vote on the top issues to emphasize whenever the test taker runs back because of his or her "overactive bladder"?

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Snowflake1

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Snowflake1 » Fri May 01, 2020 7:06 pm

Snowflake1 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:
james11 wrote:I passed the bar (with struggle) so I don't have to deal with this mess. But I have to say that a lot of my attorney friends think it is unfair to have an online test where people can obviously store notes and devices all over their homes. Forget a rule statement? Ok it is under the couch.
Meh, it's possible, but it's like that thing with open book exams. It SOUNDS like an advantage, but there was so little time to get through the exam that it didn't really help that much to have access to the material.

Even on the regular bar, if you forget a minor rule statement, you'll still pass. But if you cannot get the major things....it means you're going to have to look up EVERYTHING in your notes and you still won't be successful at the exam.

This is doubly true for the multiple choice. There are like 200 questions...maybe you can look up one or two, but you would have always been okay missing a few. But if you have to look up everything, you're not going to have enough time
I didn't pass the first time and failed by only a few essay points. Many people had the same experience. If I had 10 minutes to go through my outlines on that essay I bombed, I am pretty sure I could recognized key issues and made up the difference in points. It could certainly make a difference for many people especially on the essays.

Here's another thought. What if you coordinated a time to go to the bathroom at the same time as a friend or friends who are also taking the bar in the next room? So many opportunities to cheat here. Hopefully they figure out a really good way to secure it.
How much of your outline could you have really covered in ten minutes? If you bombed an essay, it's cool, but it probably means you really didn't know the subject and I don't see how ten minutes with your notes would have pushed you from a disaster essay to a passing essay. Not to mention that now you have ten less extra minutes on an essay that's supposed to take like an hour. That's 1/6 of your time that is gone. On an essay, that even under the best circumstances should take that entire time.

If you totally bomb an essay, it means you didn't even get the big issues, so the thought that you could figure out both big issues and small issues well enough to substantively change your score in ten minutes seems unlikely.

And just LOL @ having enough time to sit around in a bathroom and caucus. If people are relying on these schemes, I think they are still likely to fail.
I think running through my outlines would have caused me to recognize at least 1 or 2 extra issues which would be at least 10 points on the essays. This was the difference of passing and failing for me. I could have also quickly checked rule statements. If you plan it ahead you could have an elaborate set up in the bathroom to quickly reference any subject.
If you bombed an essay, you weren't going from a 55 to a 65 because you had ten extra minutes with your notes. That's a pipe dream. Ten points are like two minor issues, and if you're bombing an essay, it's not because you're missing small issues it's because you're missing huge issues.

So, in the span of a hypothetical ten minutes you were going to both spot issues AND check rule statements. Come on now.

LOL, please outline this elaborate bathroom set up for me. Do you have a tutor in your bathroom? A Greek chorus of other law students? Does each person in this theoretical bathroom group have a subject or are we just to assume that they all know everything, or are you going to roundtable everyone's questions for 10 minutes and everyone is going to get an answer?
How about a panel of tutors and students in the bathroom that discuss and vote on the top issues to emphasize whenever the test taker runs back because of his or her "overactive bladder"?
I suppose an issue would be transmitting the questions to the panel so that they can get everything ready for the test taker with the over active bladder. I think a hidden camera in the living room focused on the laptop screen which broadcasts to the bathroom panel would do the trick.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Fri May 01, 2020 7:57 pm

^^^LOL. you could probably get accommodations for overactive bladder too.

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Fri May 01, 2020 8:42 pm

Update from the cal bar about refund and late fees:

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... ITw3UHjQGo

barjamie8

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Re: 2020 September California Bar Exam

Post by barjamie8 » Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Update from the cal bar about refund and late fees:

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Admissions/Exa ... ITw3UHjQGo
People can withdraw until the day before the exam and get a full refund. I wonder if they will give refunds if you have computer issues with the remote proctoring software. I'm guessing at least a couple hundred will have issues, probably more.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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