July NY Bar Exam Rescheduled to 9/9 - 9/10 Forum

[shao0529]

See https://www.nybarexam.org/

[SilvermanBarPrep]

Definitely wondering how likely this is. But I hope it's on as planned in September; after that there is no need to postpone. It'll just be cancelled and had in February which will be a huge mess.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

[QContinuum]

Definitely wondering how likely this is. But I hope it's on as planned in September; after that there is no need to postpone. It'll just be cancelled and had in February which will be a huge mess.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Not sure I follow your reasoning above, Sean. I understand late September is problematic due to Jewish holidays, but what about October? Or even early November? Even early November would still be almost 4 months before the next regular end-of-February winter exam - presumably also allowing for licensure 4 months earlier than would be possible with just cramming everyone into February.

[Fletch23]

Definitely wondering how likely this is. But I hope it's on as planned in September; after that there is no need to postpone. It'll just be cancelled and had in February which will be a huge mess.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Not sure I follow your reasoning above, Sean. I understand late September is problematic due to Jewish holidays, but what about October? Or even early November? Even early November would still be almost 4 months before the next regular end-of-February winter exam - presumably also allowing for licensure 4 months earlier than would be possible with just cramming everyone into February.

Right now the gameplan is to delay the start of the academic year at most NY law schools so they can host and accommodate the Bar administration on September 9-10. If that doesn't work then you would presumably lose out on the option to host the exam on campuses.

[QContinuum]

Right now the gameplan is to delay the start of the academic year at most NY law schools so they can host and accommodate the Bar administration on September 9-10. If that doesn't work then you would presumably lose out on the option to host the exam on campuses.

Ah, I see. Thanks - hadn't realized the plan was to test on campuses, as opposed to in the usual convention centers.

Still, don't see why space would be impossible to find. Worst comes to worst, build massive tents in parks?? October/early November isn't awful, weather-wise - install some portable A/C units and lighting, and Bob's your uncle. Pretty sure most applicants would be willing to test in a big tent, if the alternative would be waiting until the end of February.

[Law2020hopeful]

Right now the gameplan is to delay the start of the academic year at most NY law schools so they can host and accommodate the Bar administration on September 9-10. If that doesn't work then you would presumably lose out on the option to host the exam on campuses.

Ah, I see. Thanks - hadn't realized the plan was to test on campuses, as opposed to in the usual convention centers.

Still, don't see why space would be impossible to find. Worst comes to worst, build massive tents in parks?? October/early November isn't awful, weather-wise - install some portable A/C units and lighting, and Bob's your uncle. Pretty sure most applicants would be willing to test in a big tent, if the alternative would be waiting until the end of February.

The problem with that is that there will likely still be restrictions on large public gatherings (which is why NY said they won’t be able to test everyone) until there is a vaccine or therapy that’s effective. So mass tents are likely not an option. Also, November in NYC gets cold!

[wishywashy]

Another wrinkle: they appear to have a limited number of exam slots for Sept due to restrictions on large gatherings. See NY BOLE update page.

No idea how those slots will be handed out or if the shortage will hit any new grads or just, for instance, repeat test takers.

Law firms will have a hard time sorting start dates if they have to wait and see which candidates won the bar exam slot lottery first

[mtf612]

Another wrinkle: they appear to have a limited number of exam slots for Sept due to restrictions on large gatherings. See NY BOLE update page.

No idea how those slots will be handed out or if the shortage will hit any new grads or just, for instance, repeat test takers.

Law firms will have a hard time sorting start dates if they have to wait and see which candidates won the bar exam slot lottery first

As of today, the NY BOLE website says:

" From Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 A.M. through Friday, May 15 at 11:59 P.M., applications will be accepted from any J.D. or LL.M. candidate who is sitting for the bar examination for the first time and who has graduated (or will graduate in Spring 2020) from one of the fifteen law schools located in New York State...At the close of the first application period, the Board will assess available seating in light of existing health and safety guidance. If seating remains available, the Board will then open the application period to a larger pool of candidates."


I guess I need to figure out how to take the test in NJ or MD and then transfer my score in. Great job NY, totally cool decisionmaking that in no way makes things more difficult for thousands of graduates. Good thing you didn't consider an online UBE or some other alternative!

[Brunette]

As of today, the NY BOLE website says:

" From Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 A.M. through Friday, May 15 at 11:59 P.M., applications will be accepted from any J.D. or LL.M. candidate who is sitting for the bar examination for the first time and who has graduated (or will graduate in Spring 2020) from one of the fifteen law schools located in New York State...At the close of the first application period, the Board will assess available seating in light of existing health and safety guidance. If seating remains available, the Board will then open the application period to a larger pool of candidates."


I guess I need to figure out how to take the test in NJ or MD and then transfer my score in. Great job NY, totally cool decisionmaking that in no way makes things more difficult for thousands of graduates. Good thing you didn't consider an online UBE or some other alternative!

I’m also now considering taking it elsewhere....

I’m licensed in California and have been practicing 7 years, so my situation’s a bit different. If I were to take New Jersey, does anyone know if NY’s admission on motion requirements would mean that I have to have practiced in New Jersey for 5 of the last 7 years or would California be okay for that?

Also does anyone know what neighboring states might be the best options at this point?

Thanks and thinking of you all during this difficult and uncertain time.

[QContinuum]

I’m also now considering taking it elsewhere....

I’m licensed in California and have been practicing 7 years, so my situation’s a bit different. If I were to take New Jersey, does anyone know if NY’s admission on motion requirements would mean that I have to have practiced in New Jersey for 5 of the last 7 years or would California be okay for that?

You wouldn't be applying to the NY bar as a motion applicant. You'd be applying as an exam applicant using UBE score transfer from NJ, so no length of practice requirement.

Also does anyone know what neighboring states might be the best options at this point?

Thanks and thinking of you all during this difficult and uncertain time.

Is there a reason you must sit for the UBE in a "neighboring state"? May be a better idea to sit in a UBE state a bit farther away from NY, given that the states close by are all pretty badly hit by the coronavirus.

Here's a list of UBE states: http://www.ncbex.org/exams/ube/

In fact, why not drive up the coast to Oregon, or east to Arizona? Unless you intend to seek admission in NJ, I don't see why you'd want to fly to NJ to take the bar.

(Important note: You should be looking at the list of UBE states - see my link above - and not the list of jurisdictions where NY has reciprocity for motion applicants, which may not be the same. Do not take the bar in a non-UBE state where NY has reciprocity for motion applicants. You need to sit for the UBE in a UBE state.)

Edited to add: Technically you could sit for the bar in a non-UBE state where NY has reciprocity for motion applicants (e.g., Virginia), and then apply to NY as a motion applicant. You'd be able to use your CA practice to satisfy the 5 out of last 7 years practice requirement. But! To apply as a motion applicant, you'd have to actually be admitted in the reciprocal state (e.g., Virginia) before you can apply to the NY bar, which adds additional expense and delay. In contrast, if you apply by UBE score transfer, you can apply to the NY bar as soon as you get your UBE score. The UBE also offers the additional advantage of being portable to any of the other UBE states as well.

[Brunette]

I’m also now considering taking it elsewhere....

I’m licensed in California and have been practicing 7 years, so my situation’s a bit different. If I were to take New Jersey, does anyone know if NY’s admission on motion requirements would mean that I have to have practiced in New Jersey for 5 of the last 7 years or would California be okay for that?

You wouldn't be applying to the NY bar as a motion applicant. You'd be applying as an exam applicant using UBE score transfer from NJ, so no length of practice requirement.

Also does anyone know what neighboring states might be the best options at this point?

Thanks and thinking of you all during this difficult and uncertain time.

Is there a reason you must sit for the UBE in a "neighboring state"? May be a better idea to sit in a UBE state a bit farther away from NY, given that the states close by are all pretty badly hit by the coronavirus.

Here's a list of UBE states: http://www.ncbex.org/exams/ube/

In fact, why not drive up the coast to Oregon, or east to Arizona? Unless you intend to seek admission in NJ, I don't see why you'd want to fly to NJ to take the bar.

(Important note: You should be looking at the list of UBE states - see my link above - and not the list of jurisdictions where NY has reciprocity for motion applicants, which may not be the same. Do not take the bar in a non-UBE state where NY has reciprocity for motion applicants.)

Thank you so much! I’m living in NYC now and have a toddler, so sticking close to NY and not having to fly anywhere would be ideal — was eyeing NJ, CT, MA.

[QContinuum]

Thank you so much! I’m living in NYC now and have a toddler, so sticking close to NY and not having to fly anywhere would be ideal — was eyeing NJ, CT, MA.

Aha, makes sense. Well, sad to say I don't really know enough to compare bar conditions in NJ/CT/MA. (I don't actually even know anyone who sat for the bar in CT!) Maybe start out by looking at whether any of these states requires their test takers to subsequently seek admission? Then look at their exam fees and try to Google which cities they will offer the test in. NJ might be geographically closest, but you'd probably still need to book a hotel - IIRC they test in Trenton. CT tests in Hartford.

[Brunette]

Thank you so much! I’m living in NYC now and have a toddler, so sticking close to NY and not having to fly anywhere would be ideal — was eyeing NJ, CT, MA.

Aha, makes sense. Well, sad to say I don't really know enough to compare bar conditions in NJ/CT/MA. (I don't actually even know anyone who sat for the bar in CT!) Maybe start out by looking at whether any of these states requires their test takers to subsequently seek admission? Then look at their exam fees and try to Google which cities they will offer the test in. NJ might be geographically closest, but you'd probably still need to book a hotel - IIRC they test in Trenton. CT tests in Hartford.

Thanks again! Great tips. I’m definitely a fan of whatever ends up easiest to just transfer over to NY.

[ayylmao]

Thank you so much! I’m living in NYC now and have a toddler, so sticking close to NY and not having to fly anywhere would be ideal — was eyeing NJ, CT, MA.

Aha, makes sense. Well, sad to say I don't really know enough to compare bar conditions in NJ/CT/MA. (I don't actually even know anyone who sat for the bar in CT!) Maybe start out by looking at whether any of these states requires their test takers to subsequently seek admission? Then look at their exam fees and try to Google which cities they will offer the test in. NJ might be geographically closest, but you'd probably still need to book a hotel - IIRC they test in Trenton. CT tests in Hartford.

Thanks again! Great tips. I’m definitely a fan of whatever ends up easiest to just transfer over to NY.

I'm registering for NJ now and intend to concurrently apply for NY with a transferred score. NJ tests in Edison and Atlantic City if you're using a laptop, and somewhere else in North Jersey if you have accommodations or aren't using a laptop. NJ is not a courtesy state according to the NCBE, so it seems like you have to follow through and seek admission after taking the exam. However, I filled out the forms and they never actually ask you to certify that you intend to seek admission in NJ--just that you intend to seek admission, period.

Regardless, I'm going to follow through and get admitted in NJ and NY. I mean, what's the harm? NJ's exam costs more, but I just want to get this over with. (I have a firm reimbursing me, but would still take NJ even if I didn't.) Worst case I just become inactive in NJ in a few years.

[QContinuum]

NJ is not a courtesy state according to the NCBE, so it seems like you have to follow through and seek admission after taking the exam. However, I filled out the forms and they never actually ask you to certify that you intend to seek admission in NJ--just that you intend to seek admission, period.

Interesting. Per the NCBE, the "closest" courtesy state to NY seems to be Maine, which tests in Portland. http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf

Maine's not that easy to get to from NYC. Easiest way would be to drive. Or, you could fly to Portland. Amtrak's a hassle, because you'd need to take one Amtrak train from NYC to Boston South Station, hoof across town to Boston North Station (subway/taxi), and transfer to another Amtrak train heading north to Portland. There are no direct trains from NYC to Maine.

May be simplest for "safety's" sake to swallow the cost/hassle of going through C&F twice, and sit for the UBE and seek admission in CT or NJ. But take a quick look first at https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... l_2017.pdf which has a possibly outdated guide to each state's C&F questions. They actually vary considerably in scope and what they require applicants to disclose. If, e.g., you'd need to disclose a mental health/C&F issue to CT that you wouldn't need to disclose to the NY bar, maybe rethink seeking admission in CT*.

(*Not a C&F lawyer and not legal advice, just common sense!)

[ayylmao]

NJ is not a courtesy state according to the NCBE, so it seems like you have to follow through and seek admission after taking the exam. However, I filled out the forms and they never actually ask you to certify that you intend to seek admission in NJ--just that you intend to seek admission, period.

Interesting. Per the NCBE, the "closest" courtesy state to NY seems to be Maine, which tests in Portland. http://www.ncbex.org/assets/BarAdmissio ... _Final.pdf

Maine's not that easy to get to from NYC. Easiest way would be to drive. Or, you could fly to Portland. Amtrak's a hassle, because you'd need to take one Amtrak train from NYC to Boston South Station, hoof across town to Boston North Station (subway/taxi), and transfer to another Amtrak train heading north to Portland. There are no direct trains from NYC to Maine.

May be simplest for "safety's" sake to swallow the cost/hassle of going through C&F twice, and sit for the UBE and seek admission in CT or NJ. But take a quick look first at https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/file ... l_2017.pdf which has a possibly outdated guide to each state's C&F questions. They actually vary considerably in scope and what they require applicants to disclose. If, e.g., you'd need to disclose a mental health/C&F issue to CT that you wouldn't need to disclose to the NY bar, maybe rethink seeking admission in CT*.

(*Not a C&F lawyer and not legal advice, just common sense!)

Can you explain where the cost and hassle comes from? I’ll pay to sit for the exam and transfer to NY whether or not I sit in a courtesy state. Do you mean the cost of obtaining random records like driver’s abstracts and the hassle of obtaining supplemental records for disclosed C&F issues?

[QContinuum]

Can you explain where the cost and hassle comes from? I’ll pay to sit for the exam and transfer to NY whether or not I sit in a courtesy state. Do you mean the cost of obtaining random records like driver’s abstracts and the hassle of obtaining supplemental records for disclosed C&F issues?

So state C&F processes vary wildly. Some states are relatively straightforward. NY's in the Jurassic age. Everything needs to be physically signed. Physically signed employment affirmations from basically every "job" you've ever had ("job" includes things like TA gigs and RA positions and unpaid internships and volunteer work, which you wouldn't typically think of as "jobs"). Physically signed moral character affirmations. Physically signed and notarized pro bono form. Physically signed forms from your law school. All of these forms are NY-specific, so can't be used for other states. So initially you're asking a bunch of people - some of whom you haven't spoken to in years, and some of whom may not even remember you very well - to fill out the NY forms. Now you're asking them to fill out, and mail back to you, NY forms and (say) CT forms. And you need to make sure they've filled out both forms. It's a significant hassle. Inevitably someone will mail back an incomplete/incorrect form. You're back to square one with that person.

Then, some states require certified driver records from every state where you've ever lived or held a driver's license. NY doesn't require this (IIRC), but many other states do. Now you need to obtain these records from the CA DMV, the NY DMV, and wherever else you've lived.

Some states require a separate fee for C&F and/or bar admission/registration. This fee may be substantial. In NY, for instance, bar admission requires paying $375, on top of the UBE testing fee, the NYLE fee, and the MPRE fee.

Then, finally, once you're admitted in a state, that state may or may not have an inactive status. If the state doesn't have an inactive status, you will either need to keep complying with that state's CLE requirements and keep paying that state's registration fees, or you'll need to resign from that state's bar. (It may not even be possible to resign from that state's bar!)