2020 July California Bar Exam Forum

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Animal_Activist

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2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Animal_Activist » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:17 pm

Hi everyone,

This is an unofficial page for the July 2020 California Bar Exam.

A little about myself:

I am a 3rd time retaker and am currently employed at a personal injury firm near Beverly Hills. I have invested so much into this exam, and I am ready to pass. I was within 50 points of passing on my last attempt.

I believe that we can all benefit from helping each other, and so I am willing to provide the resources I have bought, which includes hard copy tactics and online bar essay reviews. I would be happy to study with anyone who has a similar schedule. I am available every day to study but I am limited to after 5pm on weekdays. I can also accommodate anyone’s bar courses because the material is more or less the same.

If anyone lives in LA or near the valley by Woodland Hills, let me know and we can set up times to meet and hold ourselves accountable to studying. This exam takes a toll on everyone but it is passable and I hope this thread can benefit my fellow Californians.

I wish everyone the best of luck in the months ahead.

nnguyen15

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by nnguyen15 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:45 pm

Hi All,
I'm taking the bar for the first time in July. Was wondering if anyone had any reviews on John Crossfield? Or Tutoring by Daniel? I'm currently torn between the two and looking to secure a tutor. Thank you!

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SilvermanBarPrep

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by SilvermanBarPrep » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:29 am

Having never worked personally with Daniel I don't have direct knowledge but quite often when I'm working with an MBE student who is also taking California, they'll be working with Daniel on the California essays and/or performance tests. Not once have I heard anything less than excellent. So I'm glad to recommend him based on those reviews which have been very consistent.

Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)

Emowasawesome

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Emowasawesome » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:15 pm

Let’s get down to business fellow CA bar examinee’s, lets start speculating what impact covid is going to have on the exam.

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:42 pm

Anyone have any clue as to when we might here a decision about July 2020 bar exam? I know they had an emergency meeting on Monday but I feel like waiting beyond this week to give some kind of update is crazy, especially since other jurisdictions are making decisions now.

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diatribe

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by diatribe » Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any clue as to when we might here a decision about July 2020 bar exam? I know they had an emergency meeting on Monday but I feel like waiting beyond this week to give some kind of update is crazy, especially since other jurisdictions are making decisions now.
According to the NCBE, the decision whether or not to have a July 2020 MBE is set for around May 5. Considering the CA Bar is half MBE, I’d say that’s a safe deadline to know whether there will be a July exam or not

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:43 am

diatribe wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone has any clue as to when we might hear a decision about the July 2020 bar exam? I know they had an emergency meeting on Monday but I feel like waiting beyond this week to give some kind of update is crazy, especially since other jurisdictions are making decisions now.
According to the NCBE, the decision whether or not to have a July 2020 MBE is set for around May 5. Considering the CA Bar is half MBE, I’d say that’s a safe deadline to know whether there will be a July exam or not
The NCBE has advised that July Bar exams be postponed to either September 9-10, 2020 or September 30-October 1, 2020. Some states have already made arrangements for September. It is likely that most states will pick a later date of the above dates. If CA picks the later, then it will be September 29-30, 2020.

source: http://www.ncbex.org/ncbe-covid-19-updates/

Rooks

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Rooks » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:14 pm

Cal Board of Trustees to meet April 14 to discuss fate of July 2020 Bar.

https://www.law.com/therecorder/2020/04 ... 403-48681/

spamalotte84

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by spamalotte84 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:58 pm

Any word on what happened at the Board of Trustees meeting today, 4/14?

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wishywashy

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by wishywashy » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:58 pm

spamalotte84 wrote:Any word on what happened at the Board of Trustees meeting today, 4/14?
They want to postpone. Reuter’s article from an hour ago says they will recommend State Supreme Court cancel July.

Edit: recommend postpone or cancel completely

JDMBALLMMS

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by JDMBALLMMS » Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:22 am

wishywashy wrote:
spamalotte84 wrote:Any word on what happened at the Board of Trustees meeting today, 4/14?
They want to postpone. Reuter’s article from an hour ago says they will recommend State Supreme Court cancel July.

Edit: recommend postpone or cancel completely
Bloomberg News:-
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-we ... r-scrapped

Reuter’s:-
https://www.reuters.com/article/lawyer- ... SL2N2C303L

My comment:-
Summary is that it will likely be postponed or deferred till the September 9 and May also be ONLINE(not sure how that will work out). The future of bar exams may be changing. If online, how does the NCBEx come into this?

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:35 am

LOL, the California Bar sucks. They have basically made no real recommendation that can help students plan their future. If the assumption is that the state bar is going to do whatever they recommend then they haven't done much that is helpful since those are two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Leaving people in limbo because they don't want to be the "bad guy", is ridiculous. Make a fucking decision. No real information or decision out of that meeting but pretty much punting the ball to someone else. The bar is looking useless and fickle here.

I think postponement is the most reasonable answer, but whatever the solution will be, the California bar should have given a definitive recommendation.

JDMBALLMMS

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by JDMBALLMMS » Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:41 am

rcharter1978 wrote:LOL, the California Bar sucks. They have basically made no real recommendation that can help students plan their future. If the assumption is that the state bar is going to do whatever they recommend then they haven't done much that is helpful since those are two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Leaving people in limbo because they don't want to be the "bad guy", is ridiculous. Make a fucking decision. No real information or decision out of that meeting but pretty much punting the ball to someone else. The bar is looking useless and fickle here.

I think postponement is the most reasonable answer, but whatever the solution will be, the California bar should have given a definitive recommendation.
A final decision will be made on April 22.
Agreed that one clear decision should have been made.

If the online option is picked, any clue on how this works?

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any clue as to when we might here a decision about July 2020 bar exam? I know they had an emergency meeting on Monday but I feel like waiting beyond this week to give some kind of update is crazy, especially since other jurisdictions are making decisions now.
We will know by the end of this MONTH! I just received an email from Merrill Balassone from the Supreme Court that the court will make their decision at the end of the month. The July test by the CA BAR Trustees is recommended to move to Sept and to be ONLINE, with remote proctoring. The press release on their website was just released. Here is the link: http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/docu ... ptions.pdf

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:26 pm

JDMBALLMMS wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:LOL, the California Bar sucks. They have basically made no real recommendation that can help students plan their future. If the assumption is that the state bar is going to do whatever they recommend then they haven't done much that is helpful since those are two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Leaving people in limbo because they don't want to be the "bad guy", is ridiculous. Make a fucking decision. No real information or decision out of that meeting but pretty much punting the ball to someone else. The bar is looking useless and fickle here.

I think postponement is the most reasonable answer, but whatever the solution will be, the California bar should have given a definitive recommendation.
A final decision will be made on April 22.
Agreed that one clear decision should have been made.

If the online option is picked, any clue on how this works?
Actually, the Supreme Court can accept, modify or reject the Board of Trustees recommendations. Here is the letter to the Supreme Court from the Trustees which was just made public. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/docu ... ptions.pdf

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:35 pm

JDMBALLMMS wrote:
rcharter1978 wrote:LOL, the California Bar sucks. They have basically made no real recommendation that can help students plan their future. If the assumption is that the state bar is going to do whatever they recommend then they haven't done much that is helpful since those are two opposite ends of the spectrum.

Leaving people in limbo because they don't want to be the "bad guy", is ridiculous. Make a fucking decision. No real information or decision out of that meeting but pretty much punting the ball to someone else. The bar is looking useless and fickle here.

I think postponement is the most reasonable answer, but whatever the solution will be, the California bar should have given a definitive recommendation.
A final decision will be made on April 22.
Agreed that one clear decision should have been made.

If the online option is picked, any clue on how this works?
If you have sat for the bar exam prior, the exam soft for the written portion is probably how it will be tested again. For multiple choice, that option, CA has a job portal that has tests online specific to assessment of a candidates qualifications. I heard that the NCBE has been testing online already with the MPRE, so I do not think the testing platform is that difficult to administer or, for that matter, difficult for the applicant to take the test remotely and online. I have posted the link to the CA Bar Board to the CA Supreme Court in other posts, but I'll post it here as well. Online is the safest method in light of the Covid-19 pandemic for protecting applicants and also ensuring that those that pass are qualified to practice. We will know by month end how the Supreme Court will decide! http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/docu ... ptions.pdf

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:03 pm

While the Supreme Court is the final decision maker, it seems likely that they would just rubber stamp whatever recommendation came out out the CA bar, which is why the bar should have had one solid recommendation, so that people in this position had an idea of which way things were likely to go.

The letter IS better than I initially had thought in that regard because it clearly gave a "preferred option" and a "backup option" which is much better because I think it's reasonable to think it's likely that the ca supreme Court will go with the "preferred option" if they can.

Notably, the "cancel" option does not, from my reading, assume that recent graduates will get diploma privileges. That seems unclear, it just sounds like option 2 is just to cancel the exam altogether and administer it in February 2021. It's not clear that that means diploma privileges for June 2020 graduates.

It also seems like the option to work under an attorney might also be provisional and you might just have to take the exam later.

I wonder if there is going to be a massive campaign to the supreme Court now.

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Billy Batts

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Billy Batts » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:16 pm

The big problem with just setting a date in September is that the exam will more than likely have to be online. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which California allows large public gatherings by September. That means that the NCBE/MBE and the California-specific portions will have to be administered online, which no one can confirm will even be feasible.

It would be terrible to allow people to start studying as though the exam will be conducted in early September without being sure it's possible. I can't imagine studying for 8-12 weeks only to find out that the test is canceled the week before it was scheduled.

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rcharter1978

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by rcharter1978 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:09 pm

Billy Batts wrote:The big problem with just setting a date in September is that the exam will more than likely have to be online. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which California allows large public gatherings by September. That means that the NCBE/MBE and the California-specific portions will have to be administered online, which no one can confirm will even be feasible.

It would be terrible to allow people to start studying as though the exam will be conducted in early September without being sure it's possible. I can't imagine studying for 8-12 weeks only to find out that the test is canceled the week before it was scheduled.
I don't know, to me, if they contracted multiple venues and kept people well distanced during the examination I could see it being feasible. Make everyone wear masks. It's only two days and the majority of the time is spent sitting in the examination room. So I think it's possible, but I really don't know. I just think whatever they want to do they need to let people know.

Rooks

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Rooks » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:51 pm

Cal Sup Ct in a closed meeting today, but I don't think we will hear their decision today--that is, if they even make the decision today

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:53 pm

rcharter1978 wrote:
Billy Batts wrote:The big problem with just setting a date in September is that the exam will more than likely have to be online. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which California allows large public gatherings by September. That means that the NCBE/MBE and the California-specific portions will have to be administered online, which no one can confirm will even be feasible.

It would be terrible to allow people to start studying as though the exam will be conducted in early September without being sure it's possible. I can't imagine studying for 8-12 weeks only to find out that the test is canceled the week before it was scheduled.
I don't know, to me, if they contracted multiple venues and kept people well distanced during the examination I could see it being feasible. Make everyone wear masks. It's only two days and the majority of the time is spent sitting in the examination room. So I think it's possible, but I really don't know. I just think whatever they want to do they need to let people know.
Agreed. They need to make a decision, and it needs to be one people can reasonably rely on. They ought to be pretty darn sure that a test can take place in some form before they set a date.

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Tankeryanker

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Tankeryanker » Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:36 pm

According to this, California will not decide until April 30th. They keep pushing the date to let everyone know.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-we ... dmfknX3MZg


Animal_Activist

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by Animal_Activist » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:47 am

Ok team, now that we know most likely the exam is going to be online on September 9-10, do any of you in the LA County/Ventura County area want to meet and find a quiet isolated indoor area where we can study and take this exam?

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a male human

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Re: 2020 July California Bar Exam

Post by a male human » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:19 pm

OP, should we change the title to say September?


As usual, I'll drop in some helpful info collected over the years.

Wondering where to start?

I've been hanging around these TLS bar threads since 2013 and have seen the most effective tools that helped people pass the California bar. I've updated the below for your enjoyment.


Recommended resources

These resources seem helpful to CA bar takers. Feel free to suggest your ones you've found helpful!
[+] Spoiler
Investing in resources is an indicator of success, but you also shouldn't just buy everything willy nilly. The more choices you have, the more confused you're likely to be (and waste time on things that ultimately don't help).

So what are you supposed to buy? Well, I did the testing for you, as well as gather intel on what seems to be working for other California bar takers. On my second attempt at the CA bar, I've tried some that helped me pass, and I've tried some that didn't add any value. I won't include the latter.

Below is a list of resources I picked out that should give you the most bang for your buck. No need to overcomplicate things or go broke. Do your due diligence, pick a few resources that will work for you, and scrape all the meat off the bone.

You may not have the patience or mental energy to think about this if you're shell-shocked, gripped by anxiety, or overwhelmed with this beast of a task. You might be going through a rollercoaster of feels.

That's OK. Take solace in knowing that all the information and materials are out there. All you need to do is USE them.


Quick notes on the most effective supplements for...

- MBE on a budget? Emanuel's Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Volume 1 7th ed. (see description and an inside look below -- will set you back ~$60-90)
- MBE if you have $365 to shell out? AdaptiBar (see description below and a detailed review)

Which one should you get? You can improve your MBE with either or both of these excellent tools. S&T has a broad selection of questions (over 750 questions including a full simulated exam) as well as excellent explanations, which is where you learn after doing the questions. Get AdaptiBar if you have the budget or if you want more questions to practice on. AdaptiBar has all the official questions (including Civ Pro questions) but not the best explanations. You could alternatively get the NCBE MBE study aids (don't get both since AdaptiBar should include these questions; also, only the Simulated MBEs have answer explanations).

- Essays? BarEssays.com (see info and samples below, as well as a review)

- PTs? I don't know of a sure-kill supplement, but I have put together a guide (ver. 1.6c). Unlike the MBE or essays, PTs are better learned through exposure to a variety of them over trying to deeply understand the answer. Look at the past PTs and the sample answers. Focus a bit more on rules and analysis (vs. issues and rules for essays)


Search by [star-ID] to jump to the description of a featured resource, tagged by sections of interest:

[*1] Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Vols. I & II (Emanuel) + Civ Pro resources [MBE]
[*2] AdaptiBar ($30 off) [MBE]
[*3] Law in a Flash [MBE] [Essays]
[*4] BarEssays.com ($25 off) [Essays]
[*5] Past CA essays and performance tests (and a guide to own the PTs) [Essays] [PTs]
[*6] Options for condensed outlines and approach sheets [MBE] [Essays]


[*1] Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Volume 1 (Emanuel 7th edition): This is the MBE bible.

It's great (and may be the only MBE supplement you need) because it comes with 750+ representative MBE questions that are all genuine and were previously administered (now including 30 real Civ Pro questions and the author's explanations). I encourage you to study with the real deal for the most part, although you can mix in some simulated questions to vary the style of questions.

Each subject is prefaced with a discussion of the tricky areas and how to deal with them. Some subjects have an overview of the major topics. There will be tips that revolve around multiple choice in general. The 200-question practice test at the back can be done to gauge your progress sometime in the final month leading to the bar.

How to use: Read the primer for each subject, answer every question on a separate sheet, and analyze their explanation in their entirety, including (A) through (D) for each question, including questions you get correctly. So essentially, go through the book cover to cover (which is what I did). It's worth it.

So what does it look like inside? Pics incoming:
Subject overview
Questions
Explanations

Link: 7th edition (2016) -- includes past Civ Pro questions

Get it in very good condition at least so that you don’t see the previous owners’ markings. Will run you about $50-90 (price fluctuates a lot).

If you have the 6th edition, you can still make good use of it. Decide whether these key differences between 6th and 7th are worth it to you:

- 30 actual Civ Pro questions (with explanations by the author). Civ Pro questions were author-written in the 6th edition
- New questions that have been tested more recently in other subjects

If you don't have either the 6th or the 7th edition, get the 7th edition.

I do not recommend the 5th edition.


[*1] Strategies & Tactics for the MBE Vol. 2 (Emanuel): This is the expansion pack to Volume 1, containing different questions. It's in a format where the answer appears right beneath the question. If you're doing a question for practice, you'll have to carefully cover the answer as you do each question.

The valuable feature in Vol. 2 is how the questions are categorized into labeled topics. For example, Q45 on page 166 is filed under Chapter 5 Formal Proceedings -- I. Grand Jury Proceedings -- A. Self-incrimination and immunity.

For better or worse, some headings contain answer spoilers for the concepts, e.g., Q46 on page 167 is filed under B. No right to have attorney present in grand jury room, which gives away the answer.

Nonetheless, if you liked Volume 1, this is great for additional authentic MBE questions, especially if you know or want to improve on specific issues.

How to use: Get it as an optional add-on to Volume 1. Don’t get it without Volume 1. Use as a supplement for specific issues.

What it looks like inside:
Question (1)
Question (2)
Table of contents (index)

Link: 2012 (latest) edition


AdaptiBar (below) is another great addition or alternative to the above Emanuel's books. It comes with the entire universe of questions released by the NCBE, at a higher cost.

Scroll down to [*7] for more information. Here a detailed review. Feel free to PM me for a $30 coupon.

If you're re-enrolling, there's a substantial discount, no need for a coupon.


[*1] What about Civ Pro? There aren't a lot of questions to practice with.

You can still get official Civ Pro questions from the 7th edition of S&T, AdaptiBar, or the MBE study aids store. Note that some study aids may not come with explanations.

For free Civ Pro MBE questions...

- BarPrepHero has a practice exam with 30 Civ Pro questions here, not written by the NCBE.
- The NCBE offers 10 sample questions here.



[*2] AdaptiBar ($395/365): You know what this is for.

If you're on the fence, check my detailed review (which some bar prep person took certain "inspirations" from)... AdaptiBar Review: Is It Worth It?

This program is web-based and accessible via PC (desktop or laptop) and mobile devices. It automatically adapts and adjusts to your individual strengths and weaknesses.

In total, there are at least 1,955 MBE questions (all 1,530 original NCBE-released questions + 200 simulated Civil Procedure questions + 15 new Real Property questions + 210 official questions from the now-unavailable 2017 MBE Study Aid including at least 30 past Civ Pro questions). Subject performance and timing analysis feedback are provided. In addition, the program allows users to create printable PDF reports of questions that were answered incorrectly.

Moreover, the online app adapts to your strengths and weaknesses and can create customized full-length tests, too. Additional information regarding the program can be found https://www.adaptibar.com/pricing/

Link: AdaptiBar

It is indeed rather expensive, but it’s probably the single best comprehensive option to study for the MBE, assuming you have the budget. Feel free to reach out for an offer code for $30 off.

If you're re-enrolling, there's a substantial discount, no need for a coupon.



[*3] Law in a Flash cards: I bought 6 boxes of these to patch up my weak subjects. They were especially handy when I had to be out, like when I was waiting in line at Starbucks to buy some scones to bribe a friend to give me used Barbri books, and I could whip out a few cards from my wallet to learn some tricky Evidence concepts. Or when I was trying to learn about federal jurisdiction while waiting inside a noisy store.

I'm generally against flashcards, but I have to admit that working through the various hypothetical scenarios helped explain the concepts.

Link: List of LIAF products



[*4] BarEssays.com: One of the most popular resources for California essays you'll see mentioned around the forums.

What does it look like inside?

BarEssays Review.

Here's a sample: Check out this essay that scored an 85! Imagine if you studied this and produced the same results on the bar...

If you're wondering what makes a passing essay vs. what doesn't on the California Bar Exam, this is a large repository of actual graded essays and PTs submitted by those who didn't pass.

But this doesn't mean the essays are all sub-par! While there are essays scored 40 and 50 that show what is not passing material, there are essays that earned 75, 80, or even 85.

The advantage of this repository is the variety of real answers you can study.

The State Bar's selected answers are top of the top answers. It's unrealistic that your essay answers will look like them, although you could study these ideal answers to learn how to apply any rules you're confused about. One answer taught me Rule 12(b)(6) because some nerd had written a treatise on it.

There are over 3,000 essays that you can search by subject, range of score, year/month, and even typed/handwritten/both for anyone worried about handwriting. Some have grader commentary.

These essay examples are useful after you outline or write out an essay to check whether you discussed relevant issues and rules and used the facts properly. I'd look at least one below and one above 65, with grader commentary if available.

High scorers tend to discuss all the issues and much of the nuances—but do not necessarily have excellent rule statements or analyses. While you want to look like the 70-75+ people, you’ll notice that they don’t always look like the impossible Barbri answers. These are real answers you can compare to see where you stand.

Link: BarEssays

Feel free to PM me for a coupon code that will save you $25 on a subscription.

You can also check out a free essay answer bank for more sets of graded student essays.



[*5] Past essays and performance tests: These might be the only free things you get from the CA State Bar. They release exam questions from each administration of the past 5 years.

Link: State Bar of California Past Exams

Note that there aren't too many 90-minute CA PTs posted as of yet. I'd practice with MPTs, which are also 90 minutes long.

I've also put together a guide to own the PTs (v. 1.6c), with a step-by-step approach to answering a PT, strategies (including how to not run out of time), templates, and where to find more MPTs than you'll ever need.

Or find links and downloads to CA essays and PTs and MPTs here.

If you need to quickly find California essays organized by subject, here is an essay locator -- a list of essays organized by subject and issues contained therein (you can help fill in the issues).



[*6] Options for condensed outlines and essay approach

- Lean Sheets are a well-known short outline available for all 50 states. A basic but budget-friendly option.
- Magicsheets are comprehensive condensed outlines organized in logical groups and indentations.
- Approsheets are essay approach sheets (one pager checklists and flowcharts) that take you from a blank page to a finished essay or outline. These sheets help you make sure you’re attacking all relevant issues and answering each essay completely. You get ZERO points for an issue that you never raise, even if you know the rule for it. An IRAC can't sprout from a seed that's never planted.

Extremely detailed guide from a first-time passer of the 2018 CA July bar exam (40.7% pass rate) (forwarded to me by the author)

https://irenehong.co/2019/05/12/the-ult ... -bar-exam/



Previous TLS threads you can dig through for extra help
[+] Spoiler
2020 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=303600
2019 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=300726
2019 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=298763
2018 July: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=286381
2018 February: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=283574
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