C&F Question Forum

[Anonymous User]

One of the questions on my c&f application asks whether I have been confronted in an academic setting about any type of misconduct, in addition to whatever I have already written. In undergrad, I was approached by a professor because she found out that I lifted a paper. She said she would not initiate anything because I was honest and admitted what I did (I believe I just received a zero for the paper). I looked at my transcript and there is no asterisk or anything that would indicate I had the talk. If I omit this, how would the bar find out? Could they?

[rcharter1978]

One of the questions on my c&f application asks whether I have been confronted in an academic setting about any type of misconduct, in addition to whatever I have already written. In undergrad, I was approached by a professor because she found out that I lifted a paper. She said she would not initiate anything because I was honest and admitted what I did (I believe I just received a zero for the paper). I looked at my transcript and there is no asterisk or anything that would indicate I had the talk. If I omit this, how would the bar find out? Could they?

In my jurisdiction the references were asked "catch all" questions and that might be one way they would find out.

[JOThompson]

In my opinion, the risk of being caught lying (even if small), outweighs the benefit of not disclosing. The worst thing you can do on any government or bar application is to be caught lying or omitting something involving dishonesty or criminal history.

That said though, is this professor a reference that the C&F investigators would actually be contacting? Sounds pretty compartmentalized. I would still disclose to be safe.

[rcharter1978]

In my opinion, the risk of being caught lying (even if small), outweighs the benefit of not disclosing. The worst thing you can do on any government or bar application is to be caught lying or omitting something involving dishonesty or criminal history.

That said though, is this professor a reference that the C&F investigators would actually be contacting? Sounds pretty compartmentalized. I would still disclose to be safe.

In my jurisdiction, you didn't need to use an ug professor as a reference. I agree and would say just disclose.

BUT realistically if OP really doesn't want to disclose he can probably get away with it as long as he didn't disclose on his LS application and hasn't really ever told anyone about it who'd be a reference.

At least that would be the case in my jurisdiction......and mostly because of those catch all questions.

IMO unless someone hates you and has a great memory, even if you told them something like this.....they probably aren't going to report it.

I'm risk averse, but if I weren't I could see OP getting away with not disclosing.

[JOThompson]

I've been barred in three states now and have never needed to list an undergrad professor as a reference either (although I could have if I wanted to). If OP doesn't disclose, I don't know how an investigator would come across the incident. Assuming the professor and OP didn't tell anyone, the investigator would have to somehow locate and ask another professor or classmate with knowledge of the incident.

Still, I would disclose, even if the risk of detection is like 5%. I highly doubt the one unreported instance of plagiarism will result in much of a delay or ultimately non-approval, but getting caught lying about it could jam OP up a lot.

[GoldenPuppy]

I would not disclose.

These C&F questions are insanely overbroad for no good reason. (I wonder how long until they start asking us “have you ever committed a crime that have not yet been investigated or caught for? If so, please describe those crimes in detail here.”)

If it was not formalized, it did not happen.

Nobody is going to find out.

Hopefully the professor did not reduce this accusation to an e-mail or other record, aside from a “see me” written at the top of your paper.

Make sure that whoever you told about this (parents, friends, etc.) are still on your good side and are unfamiliar with C&F. Also, do not send career updates to that professor or your college quarterly magazine.

On the other hand, if you foresee yourself having nondisclosure guilt down the line, or getting caught, better to disclose now rather than later.

Edit: Admins: this can be unanonimized. I do not care.

[QContinuum]

I would not disclose.

These C&F questions are insanely overbroad for no good reason. (I wonder how long until they start asking us “have you ever committed a crime that have not yet been investigated or caught for? If so, please describe those crimes in detail here.”)

If it was not formalized, it did not happen.

Nobody is going to find out.

Hopefully the professor did not reduce this accusation to an e-mail or other record, aside from a “see me” written at the top of your paper.

Make sure that whoever you told about this (parents, friends, etc.) are still on your good side and are unfamiliar with C&F. Also, do not send career updates to that professor or your college quarterly magazine.

This is awful advice. "If it was not formalized, it did not happen"? Looks like someone needs to retake Ethics - yesterday.

It's true, of course, that many states' C&F questions are insanely overbroad. Asking about whether one has ever been "confronted in an academic setting about any type of misconduct" falls into the "insanely overbroad" category, in my view.

That said, the solution is to push for reform, not to advise folks to lie. In theory, and this shouldn't be construed as legal advice to anyone, I could see "edge cases" where impracticability or even impossibility might justify not overdisclosing. Say, an older applicant, who vaguely recalls that she once, twenty years ago as a sophomore, had a heated argument with a junior RA, in which the RA may have, in the heat of the moment, made various verbal "allegations" of minor "misconduct". The applicant doesn't even remember who the RA was, let alone any detail concerning the "allegations". Must the applicant disclose? I'm not a C&F lawyer, but my gut instinct is that there would be a strong argument that not disclosing, in this hypothetical case, would be justifiable.

But the case here is very different. OP concedes they plagiarized. They admit to having been confronted about the plagiarism. They even admit to having accepted a lower grade as punishment for the plagiarism. My gut instinct - speaking as a non-C&F lawyer - is that there would almost certainly be an ethical duty to disclose.