Hi all,
I am psyching myself out right now thinking I need to hit EVERY issue on each essay and MPT to pass (UBE jurisdiction). What is the real deal? If like 70% of people pass, there has to be some leeway, right?
Curious about a few scenarios:
1. Spot issues but apply slightly wrong law.
2. Don’t see all the issues but get most (like 2/3).
3. Totally BS but make it sound “lawyerly”
Anyone who has taken the exam or can point me to good threads please reply.
Thanks!
What does it take to pass MEE/MPT Forum
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we'rebothmenofthelaw
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:11 pm
Re: What does it take to pass MEE/MPT
So the answer isn’t a constant because of relative scoring and scaling. The ask joe seperac thread probably has the best information on this forum that I’ve seen about scoring, and one the test makers has a good essay out that explains how the essays are scored and scaled. But in a nutshell, you’re scored relative to others in your state (at least in my Jx, 1-6), and then those scores are translated into actual points (ie UBE points) based on how well the pool of people in your administration did on the MBE. Depending on how you personally did on MBE, you’ll need more or fewer points from the essays. Somewhere I got the idea that averaging in the 4 range is pretty solid, but with 70% of people passing, you’d think you could dip a little lower. Kaplan, at least, says that 3-4 is the range where you could pass or not, assuming your MBE and essays are roughly in line. But take that wth a grain of salt, because they’re always trying to scare/motivate.
So then to the question of what it takes to get those scores: nowhere close to all the points on all the issues. I scored well above what I needed to pass, and I didn’t feel like I was anywhere close. I think I hit most/almost all of the issues on all the questions, but there were only a couple of MBE and 1/2 of the MPTs where i felt like I really got anywhere close to all of the analyses and conclusions correct. I really bombed/bs’d one question (secured transactions) and there was at least one other MEE that was not great.
But here’s what I did do:
1. IRAC’d everything I could see. I think you get a lot of points for completion, especially on the MPT, so do that. If you don’t know the rule, say something that makes sense, and maybe it’ll be a rule or at least a minority rule, or at the very least something that sounds enough like a rule that it could lead to fact-sensitive analysis and a fact-driven conclusion.
2. Racked up the points where I could. You know some stuff cold. Don’t dawdle on those questions just because it’s fun to write about something you know, but do enough to guarantee yourself that 5 or 6. Get the points anywheee you can on this test.
3. Integrated facts into the analysis, and wrote conclusions that turned on facts.
4. Stuck to a consistent IRAC based paragraph structure. You don’t get points for varying syntax or keeping the reader engaged over the course of your whole exam, so don’t bother.
One final thought: as you can read in that essay I mentioned but am not bothering to find right now, a good question from the testmaker’s perspective is one that no more than one person in the country gets 100% right. Questions are meant to separate people, so bunched scores at the top are bad. An ideal question would line up every test taker in the jurisdiction. The only way to do that is to have a tons and tons of possible points with the expectation that no one is getting them all.
So practice what you can, learn what you can, go in with a plan, and do your best. But don’t expect to get every point, because they aren’t designed that way.
So then to the question of what it takes to get those scores: nowhere close to all the points on all the issues. I scored well above what I needed to pass, and I didn’t feel like I was anywhere close. I think I hit most/almost all of the issues on all the questions, but there were only a couple of MBE and 1/2 of the MPTs where i felt like I really got anywhere close to all of the analyses and conclusions correct. I really bombed/bs’d one question (secured transactions) and there was at least one other MEE that was not great.
But here’s what I did do:
1. IRAC’d everything I could see. I think you get a lot of points for completion, especially on the MPT, so do that. If you don’t know the rule, say something that makes sense, and maybe it’ll be a rule or at least a minority rule, or at the very least something that sounds enough like a rule that it could lead to fact-sensitive analysis and a fact-driven conclusion.
2. Racked up the points where I could. You know some stuff cold. Don’t dawdle on those questions just because it’s fun to write about something you know, but do enough to guarantee yourself that 5 or 6. Get the points anywheee you can on this test.
3. Integrated facts into the analysis, and wrote conclusions that turned on facts.
4. Stuck to a consistent IRAC based paragraph structure. You don’t get points for varying syntax or keeping the reader engaged over the course of your whole exam, so don’t bother.
One final thought: as you can read in that essay I mentioned but am not bothering to find right now, a good question from the testmaker’s perspective is one that no more than one person in the country gets 100% right. Questions are meant to separate people, so bunched scores at the top are bad. An ideal question would line up every test taker in the jurisdiction. The only way to do that is to have a tons and tons of possible points with the expectation that no one is getting them all.
So practice what you can, learn what you can, go in with a plan, and do your best. But don’t expect to get every point, because they aren’t designed that way.
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SilvermanBarPrep
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:19 pm
Re: What does it take to pass MEE/MPT
As you're reading through the facts take some time to spot the potential issues. This is so important because you're going to earn a ton of points by effectively IRACing each of those issues that you spot in your initial read-through. I completely agree with the other opinions in this thread that creatively is not the game here. This is more like engineering than it is like creative writing. Irac issue 1, irac issue 2, irac issue 3, etc. Very boring, but effective. So, spot those issues, and then IRAC each one. You'll be well on your way not only to scoring the number of point you'll need to pass but far more, even.
Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)
Sean (Silverman Bar Exam Tutoring)
