2019 July California Bar Forum

[throwthrowaway]

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Institution ID #: State Bar of Cal

Thanks for your help! It took a few more days after my admission ticket, but the system finally let me log on.

Since you've been so helpful, do you happen to know what the "Release of Liability" form is? It's mentioned in the laptop instructions page, and I'm wondering if we just get it on the day of the test or if we need to submit ahead of time to be fully certified. Thanks again!

[lawlady4999]

Glad to be of help with your logging on to Examsoft.
Sorry... I’m unfamiliar with the "Release of Liability" form but don’t think it's anything to worry about.

[Necho2]

Should we have admission tickets by now? I haven't received an email or anything regarding them, should we be able to find them on the Admissions website?

[BigTex]

Should we have admission tickets by now? I haven't received an email or anything regarding them, should we be able to find them on the Admissions website?

Also haven't heard anything on my admission ticket despite signing up 15 minutes after registration went live. Not sure if I should call or.... I know they had to verify our eligibility though our law schools and I had to send a transcript so maybe that's why there's a hold up? (I think my school was one of the later schools to wrap of finals and release grades).

Wish they'd provide a little more info on this process...

[2k16L1]

Should we have admission tickets by now? I haven't received an email or anything regarding them, should we be able to find them on the Admissions website?

Also haven't heard anything on my admission ticket despite signing up 15 minutes after registration went live. Not sure if I should call or.... I know they had to verify our eligibility though our law schools and I had to send a transcript so maybe that's why there's a hold up? (I think my school was one of the later schools to wrap of finals and release grades).

Wish they'd provide a little more info on this process...

FWIW, my school sent in our transcripts last Friday. I got my admission ticket yesterday morning.

[wildmadagascar]

Should we have admission tickets by now? I haven't received an email or anything regarding them, should we be able to find them on the Admissions website?

I haven't received anything either. I sent my transcript last Wednesday.

[yespasscbx]

Just want to pop back in to say I’m dying trying to learn CA and MBE Evidence/Civ Pro. That’s all

Read the model answers on the CA Bar website, and you'll find pointing out the differences between CA and MBE laws gives you a BIG PLUS. Study it. This time investment is worthwhile!!

[Bingo_Bongo]

I like to think the bar examiners read forums like these and chose topics that everyone is saying won't come. If I were a bar examiner, that's totally what I'd do.

[rcharter1978]

I like to think the bar examiners read forums like these and chose topics that everyone is saying won't come. If I were a bar examiner, that's totally what I'd do.

I suspect they choose the questions pretty far in advance. I'd be annoyed and disappointed in the bar examiners if they made any decisions based on what people said on a forum.

The goal of the examiners should be to write a tough (but fair?) exam. Not to go out of their way to screw over as many people as they can. And if that IS the goal they should still be able to write challenging essay questions without having to resort to forum lurking traps.

But who knows, maybe they do. When I took it I said, on multiple occasions that I would pull the fire alarm or fake a heart attack if they tested California evidence and it was the first essay question. Maybe someone just wanted to really stick it to me. Suckers. I passed.

[Bingo_Bongo]

I suspect they choose the questions pretty far in advance.

Actually, from what I understand, they pick the topics and write the questions just a few weeks before the exam. At least that's what I was told by a full-time bar prep guy like ten years ago who said he spoke to one of the people responsible for writing the questions, and that's what he told him.

[rcharter1978]

I suspect they choose the questions pretty far in advance.

Actually, from what I understand, they pick the topics and write the questions just a few weeks before the exam. At least that's what I was told by a full-time bar prep guy like ten years ago who said he spoke to one of the people responsible for writing the questions, and that's what he told him.

Yeah, thats a little too much second and third hand information for my taste.

They have no reason to really wait to choose the topics. And writing the questions as early as possible gives them time to quality check for vague facts that could reasonably lead to a different issue than the one they want to test. I don't think they are on a mission to trick people by stalking message boards for predictions. The bar is plenty difficult without all that.

[Cmal123]

ADAPTIBAR $50 off code... “PASS50”

(Soo worth it btw!!)

[yespasscbx]

I tend to believe that there's an Essay Pool that has been built up by numerous essay writers' contribution over years. Each question has been edited multiple times before it is finally qualified and gets into this pool.

A couple of weeks before the exam, the examiners decide on the topics - that's the way to keep the balance over years. And then specific questions under those topics are machine-chosen - that's the way to guarantee fairness.

Just my guess

[Bingo_Bongo]

Actually, from what I understand, they pick the topics and write the questions just a few weeks before the exam. At least that's what I was told by a full-time bar prep guy like ten years ago who said he spoke to one of the people responsible for writing the questions, and that's what he told him.

Yeah, thats a little too much second and third hand information for my taste.

They have no reason to really wait to choose the topics. And writing the questions as early as possible gives them time to quality check for vague facts that could reasonably lead to a different issue than the one they want to test. I don't think they are on a mission to trick people by stalking message boards for predictions. The bar is plenty difficult without all that.

Yeah, I'm not pretending to have firsthand knowledge how it works. I am curious, though.

I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that these questions were thought up just a few weeks before the exam, and only approved by a few people. Some of the essay questions I've seen have been so objectively bad that I couldn't imagine that process has a ton of oversight.

Some questions are actually physically impossible to finish in an hour unless you manage to type 200 WPM for the full hour without stopping (there are a few evidence questions are like that). The bar examiners end up having to curve those low since nobody ever got to the fifth call of the question, or whatever ridiculous number they put on the test. I'd like to think if there was actually a system in place you wouldn't see that type of thing happening so often. I feel that some of these exams never saw anyone actually do a timed practice run through of the question.

Other questions just test things that I couldn't imagine a deliberate committee of professors, jurists, or practitioners thinking would be appropriate in a general exam of minimal competency.

[Crtxlaw]

So I have a question. Does anyone know what raw MBE score we need to be aiming for to pass? I took my Kaplan MBE midterm but I’m not sure a) if it’s harder than the real MBE or b) if it is indicative of how we will do on test day. I saw that calculator on onetimers but that seems somewhat suspect.




Also these essays are killinggg me.

[Bingo_Bongo]

So I have a question. Does anyone know what raw MBE score we need to be aiming for to pass? I took my Kaplan MBE midterm but I’m not sure a) if it’s harder than the real MBE or b) if it is indicative of how we will do on test day. I saw that calculator on onetimers but that seems somewhat suspect.

You shouldn't pay so much attention to your raw score, but rather look at your percentile rank (if Kaplan gives that to you). You're in a state where at least around 40% of test takers will probably pass the bar, so that means if you're past the 60th percentile mark, you're probably where you need to be at the present moment. You can probably be a little under that even, since I'm assuming a good chunk of the people who aren't going to pass the bar aren't taking practice tests and being factored into those scores.

As a general matter, a 67.5% raw score is usually the score that's considered "passing" the MBE in California. Of course, if you don't do as well on essays, you'll want that to be a little higher.

You've still got several weeks left. July is the time to really start memorizing rules and doing practice questions. You'll be surprised how much can you can improve in several weeks. Just keep on it.

[wildmadagascar]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

[a male human]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

What's stopping you from attempting to answer the CA essays now? That's what you'll be doing on the exam.

[ipsares]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

I was kind of having the same issue. I was reading the outlines and nothing was sticking. I got baressays.com and started reading all of the model answers for a subject and then supplemented with mary basick outline and essay samples (some cross overs) and things are starting to stick. Getting an idea of how the rules get applied and the format they go into. I found Mary Basicks condensed outlinesgreat, and then after reading a bunch of essays i found them excellent because they are set out in a way that only has pertinent information for the essays. So basically the plan is to read all of the models and then check mary basick and read and outline answers as the information fills in and then by the time i have gone through the last 20 yrs of sample questions the patterns are there and the rules and format are sticking. Seems like a lot but as the the older questions come through i can read the question and do a quick outline and read the sample essays in like 10 minutes.

[wildmadagascar]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

What's stopping you from attempting to answer the CA essays now? That's what you'll be doing on the exam.

I've been doing the CA essay questions but it hasn't been very effective because I can't remember the rules and they are very time-consuming. See, I don't have problems applying rules to the facts, but just memorizing the black letter law. I've memorized most of the MBE topic rules just by doing multiple choice questions, so I was hoping to find some similar platform for CA topics...

[rcharter1978]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

What's stopping you from attempting to answer the CA essays now? That's what you'll be doing on the exam.

I've been doing the CA essay questions but it hasn't been very effective because I can't remember the rules and they are very time-consuming. See, I don't have problems applying rules to the facts, but just memorizing the black letter law. I've memorized most of the MBE topic rules just by doing multiple choice questions, so I was hoping to find some similar platform for CA topics...

I can relate, CA distinctions are hard, particularly in evidence because sometimes it's just a minor tweaks and sometimes it's something major. I think I literally had to type out a grid with the differences. I thought Barbri materials had such a grid, but writing things out helps me. I think that the distinctions are very difficult. Maybe write them out or review them and immediately outline a question using both the general rules and the CA rules. That will allow you to problem solve by just outlining using both sets of rules and seeing if you got everything.

[ReasonablePersonSSC]

Actually, from what I understand, they pick the topics and write the questions just a few weeks before the exam. At least that's what I was told by a full-time bar prep guy like ten years ago who said he spoke to one of the people responsible for writing the questions, and that's what he told him.

Yeah, thats a little too much second and third hand information for my taste.

They have no reason to really wait to choose the topics. And writing the questions as early as possible gives them time to quality check for vague facts that could reasonably lead to a different issue than the one they want to test. I don't think they are on a mission to trick people by stalking message boards for predictions. The bar is plenty difficult without all that.

Yeah, I'm not pretending to have firsthand knowledge how it works. I am curious, though.

I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that these questions were thought up just a few weeks before the exam, and only approved by a few people. Some of the essay questions I've seen have been so objectively bad that I couldn't imagine that process has a ton of oversight.

Some questions are actually physically impossible to finish in an hour unless you manage to type 200 WPM for the full hour without stopping (there are a few evidence questions are like that). The bar examiners end up having to curve those low since nobody ever got to the fifth call of the question, or whatever ridiculous number they put on the test. I'd like to think if there was actually a system in place you wouldn't see that type of thing happening so often. I feel that some of these exams never saw anyone actually do a timed practice run through of the question.

Other questions just test things that I couldn't imagine a deliberate committee of professors, jurists, or practitioners thinking would be appropriate in a general exam of minimal competency.

The essay questions are presented to and approved by the Committee of Bar Examiners a couple months before the test. For example, according to the meeting agenda the written questions for the upcoming July exam were presented to the Committee in a closed session on April 27, 2019.

[a male human]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

What's stopping you from attempting to answer the CA essays now? That's what you'll be doing on the exam.

I've been doing the CA essay questions but it hasn't been very effective because I can't remember the rules and they are very time-consuming. See, I don't have problems applying rules to the facts, but just memorizing the black letter law. I've memorized most of the MBE topic rules just by doing multiple choice questions, so I was hoping to find some similar platform for CA topics...

It's OK to do it open book (for now). Then comparing your answer (especially the issues and rules) to a model answer. Then learning from that. You will start to remember the issues and rules and how to use those rules.

[Crtxlaw]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

What's stopping you from attempting to answer the CA essays now? That's what you'll be doing on the exam.

I've been doing the CA essay questions but it hasn't been very effective because I can't remember the rules and they are very time-consuming. See, I don't have problems applying rules to the facts, but just memorizing the black letter law. I've memorized most of the MBE topic rules just by doing multiple choice questions, so I was hoping to find some similar platform for CA topics...

It's OK to do it open book (for now). Then comparing your answer (especially the issues and rules) to a model answer. Then learning from that. You will start to remember the issues and rules and how to use those rules.

How important is it to remember specific constitutional amendments for criminal procedure? I just did the July 2014 essay on crim pro and apart from that essay being weird towards the end I couldn’t remember the specific amendment for the latter part of the question but I knew the rule semi well. Am I really worse off if I just say “under constitutional law...”?

[a male human]

How is everyone else studying for the CA topics? Just reading the outlines? HELP please

I'm having trouble memorizing the rules for CA essay topics. I think I learn most effectively when I'm solving questions (such as MBE). Does anyone know of any platform that offers multiple choice Q's, short questions, or flashcards for CA essay topics (community property, wills, trust, biz org, civ pro, evidence, PR, etc.)??

PLEASE HELPPPP

What's stopping you from attempting to answer the CA essays now? That's what you'll be doing on the exam.

I've been doing the CA essay questions but it hasn't been very effective because I can't remember the rules and they are very time-consuming. See, I don't have problems applying rules to the facts, but just memorizing the black letter law. I've memorized most of the MBE topic rules just by doing multiple choice questions, so I was hoping to find some similar platform for CA topics...

It's OK to do it open book (for now). Then comparing your answer (especially the issues and rules) to a model answer. Then learning from that. You will start to remember the issues and rules and how to use those rules.

How important is it to remember specific constitutional amendments for criminal procedure? I just did the July 2014 essay on crim pro and apart from that essay being weird towards the end I couldn’t remember the specific amendment for the latter part of the question but I knew the rule semi well. Am I really worse off if I just say “under constitutional law...”?

You mean whether the rule is based on the 4th, 5th or 6th Amendment? I'd try to include it because it makes you look like you know what you're talking about (assuming you cite the correct amendment). I don't think saying "under constitutional law" would be a big turnoff, but saying it that way kind of sounds like you don't remember. I'd rather just exclude that phrase altogether and state the rule if I don't remember the specific amendment.