Anyone else finding Kaplan's MBE questions total shit? Forum

[rustyburger2]

I'd say 25-30% of the questions I'm getting wrong aren't because I don't know the subject matter relevant to the question, but instead because I'm uncertain as to what level of specificity, generality, or inference the question is expecting. A certain answer could be right at one level of specificity, while another is right at a different level of specificity. I've done a few hundred questions now and I just can't get a handle on the metastructure of these questions – I swear it's variable.

I'm generally pretty good at multiple choice exams, so this is really throwing me for a loop. Anyone else having these issues?

Also, are the actual bar questions like this as well? I have a hard time imagining that they would be, since it's the most important barrier to entry into the profession – even LSAT questions were fine tuned as hell.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

I'd say 25-30% of the questions I'm getting wrong aren't because I don't know the subject matter relevant to the question, but instead because I'm uncertain as to what level of specificity, generality, or inference the question is expecting. A certain answer could be right at one level of specificity, while another is right at a different level of specificity. I've done a few hundred questions now and I just can't get a handle on the metastructure of these questions – I swear it's variable.

I'm generally pretty good at multiple choice exams, so this is really throwing me for a loop. Anyone else having these issues?

Also, are the actual bar questions like this as well? I have a hard time imagining that they would be, since it's the most important barrier to entry into the profession – even LSAT questions were fine tuned as hell.

Many people do poorly on MBE questions even though they know the subject matter relevant to the question. That's because the MBE is not like other multiple choice exams. The authors of the MBE are purposefully trying to make you chose the wrong answer. The answer choice often contain very fine nuances that are not obviously apparent on the first read. That's why it is imperative to keep reviewing using REAL past MBE questions, so that you can get a feel for these nuances.

[Mobster1983]

I took two bar exams, July 2017 and Feb 2018. Barbri for July and Kaplan for February. While I felt Barbri's questions were a bit better, mainly in the explanations, Kaplan's were still pretty good. Both seemed to track the actual exam pretty well, and my scores on Barbri and Kaplan tracked along the same lines. I scored a 168 MBE the second time around (my original state didn't release scores) after using Kaplan. Just FTY, after coming out of the real Feb exam, I felt the MBE questions were total shit.

As the first reply stated, the Bar exam is a whole different animal. Knowing the rule to apply will generally only eliminate two of the answer choices. You really have to understand how to apply it to the facts, which are not always clear.

I recommend paying close attention to the lectures that explain how to answer MBE questions in generally. This usually gives good pointers. Also remember that there may not be a right answer. You are looking for the "best" answer based on the information you are given.

Lastly, read through the answer explanations, including the ones you got correct. This is where I learned the most.

Good luck.

[cowardltd]

I took the July 2017 exam in New York.
I used a set of 2016 Kaplan books for preparation. After I did all the Kaplan MBE questions, I felt pretty comfortable. Later, I got a Barbri MBE book and attempted a few tests. I did much worse. It seemed to me that the logic and even the way to tackle Kapan and Barbri MBE questions were different. In the end I decided to do the Barbri questions too. The real bar exam was something in between, maybe a little bit closer to the Barbri question types. I passed on my first try with a 304 (mostly because of luck).

I would suggest not focusing on questions from one particular publisher. From my experience, Kaplan was much better in helping me learn the rules (I didn't study in the states) but Barbri was the better MBE trainer.

[rustyburger2]

I took the July 2017 exam in New York.
I used a set of 2016 Kaplan books for preparation. After I did all the Kaplan MBE questions, I felt pretty comfortable. Later, I got a Barbri MBE book and attempted a few tests. I did much worse. It seemed to me that the logic and even the way to tackle Kapan and Barbri MBE questions were different. In the end I decided to do the Barbri questions too. The real bar exam was something in between, maybe a little bit closer to the Barbri question types. I passed on my first try with a 304 (mostly because of luck).

I would suggest not focusing on questions from one particular publisher. From my experience, Kaplan was much better in helping me learn the rules (I didn't study in the states) but Barbri was the better MBE trainer.

This is really helpful, thanks! Where did you do Barbri questions from? Just hardcopy books that you purchased?

[rustyburger2]

Many people do poorly on MBE questions even though they know the subject matter relevant to the question. That's because the MBE is not like other multiple choice exams. The authors of the MBE are purposefully trying to make you chose the wrong answer. The answer choice often contain very fine nuances that are not obviously apparent on the first read. That's why it is imperative to keep reviewing using REAL past MBE questions, so that you can get a feel for these nuances.

I took two bar exams, July 2017 and Feb 2018. Barbri for July and Kaplan for February. While I felt Barbri's questions were a bit better, mainly in the explanations, Kaplan's were still pretty good. Both seemed to track the actual exam pretty well, and my scores on Barbri and Kaplan tracked along the same lines. I scored a 168 MBE the second time around (my original state didn't release scores) after using Kaplan. Just FTY, after coming out of the real Feb exam, I felt the MBE questions were total shit.

As the first reply stated, the Bar exam is a whole different animal. Knowing the rule to apply will generally only eliminate two of the answer choices. You really have to understand how to apply it to the facts, which are not always clear.

I recommend paying close attention to the lectures that explain how to answer MBE questions in generally. This usually gives good pointers. Also remember that there may not be a right answer. You are looking for the "best" answer based on the information you are given.

Lastly, read through the answer explanations, including the ones you got correct. This is where I learned the most.

Good luck.

I don't really have a problem with questions relying on subtle nuance, but more with questions that are genuinely poorly drafted. As an example, I just got a couple questions in a practice test that required unfair line drawing (in my opinion). Here's the facts of each:

1) Facts indicate a real estate mogul had a meeting with a seller of real property to purchase some land. As the mogul entered the seller's office, an investor walked out. Mogul thought to himself, "wonder what he was doing here", but then decided it wasn't important. Turns out the seller had conveyed the land to the investor right then, and the issue was whether the Mogul had inquiry notice. Note - nothing in the facts indicated the Mogul actually knew who the investor was, or even that he was an investor.

2) Facts describe festivities going on in a neighborhood after a soccer game. Guy kicks a soccer-ball into an adjacent parking lot and shoots it with a gun as people cheer him on. Bullet bounces off the ground and kills a kid. Depraved heart murder or involuntary manslaughter? Note: facts say nothing about whether he understood the risk.

------------------------------

Here's another example of a really frustrating question:

Businessman signed a valid purchase and sale agreement selling one of his estates to his partner. The deal was to close on Monday but the businessman died on Tuesday. The executor of his estate wants to renegotiate the sale of the property. The partner filed suit against the businessman's estate for specific performance. Will the partner prevail, why or why not?

A) Yes, because equitable title passed to the partner upon the execution of the purchase-and-sale agreement.

B) Yes, because the contract did not terminate with the businessman's death.

[dabigchina]

Many people do poorly on MBE questions even though they know the subject matter relevant to the question. That's because the MBE is not like other multiple choice exams. The authors of the MBE are purposefully trying to make you chose the wrong answer. The answer choice often contain very fine nuances that are not obviously apparent on the first read. That's why it is imperative to keep reviewing using REAL past MBE questions, so that you can get a feel for these nuances.

I took two bar exams, July 2017 and Feb 2018. Barbri for July and Kaplan for February. While I felt Barbri's questions were a bit better, mainly in the explanations, Kaplan's were still pretty good. Both seemed to track the actual exam pretty well, and my scores on Barbri and Kaplan tracked along the same lines. I scored a 168 MBE the second time around (my original state didn't release scores) after using Kaplan. Just FTY, after coming out of the real Feb exam, I felt the MBE questions were total shit.

As the first reply stated, the Bar exam is a whole different animal. Knowing the rule to apply will generally only eliminate two of the answer choices. You really have to understand how to apply it to the facts, which are not always clear.

I recommend paying close attention to the lectures that explain how to answer MBE questions in generally. This usually gives good pointers. Also remember that there may not be a right answer. You are looking for the "best" answer based on the information you are given.

Lastly, read through the answer explanations, including the ones you got correct. This is where I learned the most.

Good luck.

I don't really have a problem with questions relying on subtle nuance, but more with questions that are genuinely poorly drafted. As an example, I just got a couple questions in a practice test that required unfair line drawing (in my opinion). Here's the facts of each:

1) Facts indicate a real estate mogul had a meeting with a seller of real property to purchase some land. As the mogul entered the seller's office, an investor walked out. Mogul thought to himself, "wonder what he was doing here", but then decided it wasn't important. Turns out the seller had conveyed the land to the investor right then, and the issue was whether the Mogul had inquiry notice. Note - nothing in the facts indicated the Mogul actually knew who the investor was, or even that he was an investor.

2) Facts describe festivities going on in a neighborhood after a soccer game. Guy kicks a soccer-ball into an adjacent parking lot and shoots it with a gun as people cheer him on. Bullet bounces off the ground and kills a kid. Depraved heart murder or involuntary manslaughter? Note: facts say nothing about whether he understood the risk.

------------------------------

Here's another example of a really frustrating question:

Businessman signed a valid purchase and sale agreement selling one of his estates to his partner. The deal was to close on Monday but the businessman died on Tuesday. The executor of his estate wants to renegotiate the sale of the property. The partner filed suit against the businessman's estate for specific performance. Will the partner prevail, why or why not?

A) Yes, because equitable title passed to the partner upon the execution of the purchase-and-sale agreement.

B) Yes, because the contract did not terminate with the businessman's death.

Is the answer to that last one b?

[rustyburger2]

Here's another example of a really frustrating question:

Businessman signed a valid purchase and sale agreement selling one of his estates to his partner. The deal was to close on Monday but the businessman died on Tuesday. The executor of his estate wants to renegotiate the sale of the property. The partner filed suit against the businessman's estate for specific performance. Will the partner prevail, why or why not?

A) Yes, because equitable title passed to the partner upon the execution of the purchase-and-sale agreement.

B) Yes, because the contract did not terminate with the businessman's death.

Is the answer to that last one b?

You'd think so, right? Because B is the answer choice that most specifically addresses the issue presented in the question. Not according to Kaplan though.

According to Kaplan "While it is true that the partner will prevail in his action, neglects to note the doctrine under which he is entitled to carry through with the sale: equitable conversion. As such, [A] is the best response."

[Mobster1983]

Here's another example of a really frustrating question:

Businessman signed a valid purchase and sale agreement selling one of his estates to his partner. The deal was to close on Monday but the businessman died on Tuesday. The executor of his estate wants to renegotiate the sale of the property. The partner filed suit against the businessman's estate for specific performance. Will the partner prevail, why or why not?

A) Yes, because equitable title passed to the partner upon the execution of the purchase-and-sale agreement.

B) Yes, because the contract did not terminate with the businessman's death.

Is the answer to that last one b?

You'd think so, right? Because B is the answer choice that most specifically addresses the issue presented in the question. Not according to Kaplan though.

According to Kaplan "While it is true that the partner will prevail in his action, neglects to note the doctrine under which he is entitled to carry through with the sale: equitable conversion. As such, [A] is the best response."

No, you wouldn't think so. "A" is the correct answer. This is a Real Property question, not a contract question, even though it deals with both. Equitable Title to Real Property (and the risk of loss) passes to the purchaser at the time the agreement is entered.

Your first question above is also very simple. Your issue is a common one, you are analyzing too much. I sometimes have this issue too. The trick is to remember that what is stated in the question is a FACT. If the person walking out is an investor, that is a FACT. On an essay, sure you would talk about whether the Mogul knew he was an investor. However, on the MBE this is presumed. This is the type of mindset you need to build to pass the MBE.

[rustyburger2]

Here's another example of a really frustrating question:

Businessman signed a valid purchase and sale agreement selling one of his estates to his partner. The deal was to close on Monday but the businessman died on Tuesday. The executor of his estate wants to renegotiate the sale of the property. The partner filed suit against the businessman's estate for specific performance. Will the partner prevail, why or why not?

A) Yes, because equitable title passed to the partner upon the execution of the purchase-and-sale agreement.

B) Yes, because the contract did not terminate with the businessman's death.

Is the answer to that last one b?

You'd think so, right? Because B is the answer choice that most specifically addresses the issue presented in the question. Not according to Kaplan though.

According to Kaplan "While it is true that the partner will prevail in his action, neglects to note the doctrine under which he is entitled to carry through with the sale: equitable conversion. As such, [A] is the best response."

No, you wouldn't think so. "A" is the correct answer. This is a Real Property question, not a contract question, even though it deals with both. Equitable Title to Real Property (and the risk of loss) passes to the purchaser at the time the agreement is entered.

Contracts in land are an entire subsection of Real Property. That a contract in land doesn't terminate on death of the party is a specific rule statement you learn in that subsection. So reasoning that it's a "Real Property question, not a contract question" isn't helpful here.

Your first question above is also very simple. Your issue is a common one, you are analyzing too much. I sometimes have this issue too. The trick is to remember that what is stated in the question is a FACT. If the person walking out is an investor, that is a FACT. On an essay, sure you would talk about whether the Mogul knew he was an investor. However, on the MBE this is presumed. This is the type of mindset you need to build to pass the MBE.

Even if the Mogul knew he was an investor, that doesn't make it any more obvious inquiry notice is triggered. That's still a pretty significant line to have the test taker draw – is the mere knowledge that an investor met with a seller of real property enough to trigger inquiry notice?

Furthermore, it's not really helpful to say that what's stated in the question is a fact, since that "fact" is just that he's an investor. Sure, that's a fact, but that doesn't mean it's also a fact that the Mogul knew he was an investor. While it might sound reasonable to presume that post facto, there are questions that punish you for making exactly these kinds of presumptions. So in that moment you're stuck thinking "is the examiner trying to fuck me right now, or was the examiner just careless?"

[Mobster1983]

Contracts in land are an entire subsection of Real Property. That a contract in land doesn't terminate on death of the party is a specific rule statement you learn in that subsection. So reasoning that it's a "Real Property question, not a contract question" isn't helpful here.

Your first question above is also very simple. Your issue is a common one, you are analyzing too much. I sometimes have this issue too. The trick is to remember that what is stated in the question is a FACT. If the person walking out is an investor, that is a FACT. On an essay, sure you would talk about whether the Mogul knew he was an investor. However, on the MBE this is presumed. This is the type of mindset you need to build to pass the MBE.

Even if the Mogul knew he was an investor, that doesn't make it any more obvious inquiry notice is triggered. That's still a pretty significant line to have the test taker draw – is the mere knowledge that an investor met with a seller of real property enough to trigger inquiry notice?

Furthermore, it's not really helpful to say that what's stated in the question is a fact, since that "fact" is just that he's an investor. Sure, that's a fact, but that doesn't mean it's also a fact that the Mogul knew he was an investor. While it might sound reasonable to presume that post facto, there are questions that punish you for making exactly these kinds of presumptions. So in that moment you're stuck thinking "is the examiner trying to fuck me right now, or was the examiner just careless?"

Welcome to the Bar exam.

[rustyburger2]

Contracts in land are an entire subsection of Real Property. That a contract in land doesn't terminate on death of the party is a specific rule statement you learn in that subsection. So reasoning that it's a "Real Property question, not a contract question" isn't helpful here.

Your first question above is also very simple. Your issue is a common one, you are analyzing too much. I sometimes have this issue too. The trick is to remember that what is stated in the question is a FACT. If the person walking out is an investor, that is a FACT. On an essay, sure you would talk about whether the Mogul knew he was an investor. However, on the MBE this is presumed. This is the type of mindset you need to build to pass the MBE.

Even if the Mogul knew he was an investor, that doesn't make it any more obvious inquiry notice is triggered. That's still a pretty significant line to have the test taker draw – is the mere knowledge that an investor met with a seller of real property enough to trigger inquiry notice?

Furthermore, it's not really helpful to say that what's stated in the question is a fact, since that "fact" is just that he's an investor. Sure, that's a fact, but that doesn't mean it's also a fact that the Mogul knew he was an investor. While it might sound reasonable to presume that post facto, there are questions that punish you for making exactly these kinds of presumptions. So in that moment you're stuck thinking "is the examiner trying to fuck me right now, or was the examiner just careless?"

Welcome to the Bar exam.

Right, so that's my question. Are actual bar questions this poorly drafted, or is this just a Kaplan thing?

[Mobster1983]

Right, so that's my question. Are actual bar questions this poorly drafted, or is this just a Kaplan thing?

The actual questions are drafted that way. Kaplan questions seemed in line with the actual bar exam.

[shaq23]

If needed, you can supplement your MBE studies with Adaptibar. Here's a link to a review of the program to help you understand what it is, how it works, and how it may/may not help you. If you feel it is the right program for you, there is a discount offered within the review.

https://www.virginiabarprep.com/review- ... ou-get-it/

[L_William_W]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

[rustyburger2]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

Yeah, I'm not talking about hard questions though. Like I said, I don't mind nuance. My issue is with questions that turn entirely on the question designer's perception and intent, rather than the material itself.

But I appreciate the advice about Adaptibar – I was considering getting it since it uses actual MBE questions. Do you have firsthand experience with it?

[shaq23]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

Yeah, I'm not talking about hard questions though. Like I said, I don't mind nuance. My issue is with questions that turn entirely on the question designer's perception and intent, rather than the material itself.

But I appreciate the advice about Adaptibar – I was considering getting it since it uses actual MBE questions. Do you have firsthand experience with it?

I used it just over a year ago and found it to be in-line with the MBE. Honestly, one of its best features is its ability to tell you how you are performing by subject. This way you can focus your studies to improve your score.

Most test prep companies either use licensed questions (like Adaptibar), develop their own simulated versions of MBE questions, or a combination thereof. In the instance where the law has changed in the licensed question, I believe Adaptibar either lets you know of the change or doesn’t display that rule. Not 100% sure how they handle as I have forgotten.

[rustyburger2]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

Yeah, I'm not talking about hard questions though. Like I said, I don't mind nuance. My issue is with questions that turn entirely on the question designer's perception and intent, rather than the material itself.

But I appreciate the advice about Adaptibar – I was considering getting it since it uses actual MBE questions. Do you have firsthand experience with it?

I used it just over a year ago and found it to be in-line with the MBE. Honestly, one of its best features is its ability to tell you how you are performing by subject. This way you can focus your studies to improve your score.

Most test prep companies either use licensed questions (like Adaptibar), develop their own simulated versions of MBE questions, or a combination thereof. In the instance where the law has changed in the licensed question, I believe Adaptibar either lets you know of the change or doesn’t display that rule. Not 100% sure how they handle as I have forgotten.

Did you find the questions to be the same level of difficulty as on the exam?

[shaq23]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

Yeah, I'm not talking about hard questions though. Like I said, I don't mind nuance. My issue is with questions that turn entirely on the question designer's perception and intent, rather than the material itself.

But I appreciate the advice about Adaptibar – I was considering getting it since it uses actual MBE questions. Do you have firsthand experience with it?

I used it just over a year ago and found it to be in-line with the MBE. Honestly, one of its best features is its ability to tell you how you are performing by subject. This way you can focus your studies to improve your score.

Most test prep companies either use licensed questions (like Adaptibar), develop their own simulated versions of MBE questions, or a combination thereof. In the instance where the law has changed in the licensed question, I believe Adaptibar either lets you know of the change or doesn’t display that rule. Not 100% sure how they handle as I have forgotten.

Did you find the questions to be the same level of difficulty as on the exam?

For the most part yes. After doing a lot of questions it helped me recognize patterns. I was no longer “afraid” of what I’ll get next. I read the explanations for what I got wrong to help me improve. I also had BarBri so I relied on both to study and take questions - not just adaptibar. There were some questions that didn’t make sense, but I didn’t spend too much time focusing on those. My goal was to find my weaknesses and improve it practicing questions in those areas.

[L_William_W]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

Yeah, I'm not talking about hard questions though. Like I said, I don't mind nuance. My issue is with questions that turn entirely on the question designer's perception and intent, rather than the material itself.

But I appreciate the advice about Adaptibar – I was considering getting it since it uses actual MBE questions. Do you have firsthand experience with it?

I used it just over a year ago and found it to be in-line with the MBE. Honestly, one of its best features is its ability to tell you how you are performing by subject. This way you can focus your studies to improve your score.

Most test prep companies either use licensed questions (like Adaptibar), develop their own simulated versions of MBE questions, or a combination thereof. In the instance where the law has changed in the licensed question, I believe Adaptibar either lets you know of the change or doesn’t display that rule. Not 100% sure how they handle as I have forgotten.

Did you find the questions to be the same level of difficulty as on the exam?

Hell no.

Adaptibar uses questions from the 1990's and early 2000's. In fact, their questions are the same ones as the ones sold by the NCBE for a fraction of the price. I used Adaptibar and got my ass handed to me on the MBE. When I used a different approach, my MBE increased substantially. Furthermore, the MBE portion of the exam is with a pencil and paper, not a computer. Wouldn't you want to get acclimated to the conditions of the exam?

[shaq23]

The Kaplan questions are designed to be hard and frustrating. That's how the real MBE questions are. If the MBE was easy then everyone would score 160. Just hang in there and grind it out. A correct answer can come down to a subtle nuance. Make sure you understand why your answers are wrong.

Furthermore, avoid Adaptibar. Their questions are too easy and don't reflect the current material on the bar.

Yeah, I'm not talking about hard questions though. Like I said, I don't mind nuance. My issue is with questions that turn entirely on the question designer's perception and intent, rather than the material itself.

But I appreciate the advice about Adaptibar – I was considering getting it since it uses actual MBE questions. Do you have firsthand experience with it?

I used it just over a year ago and found it to be in-line with the MBE. Honestly, one of its best features is its ability to tell you how you are performing by subject. This way you can focus your studies to improve your score.

Most test prep companies either use licensed questions (like Adaptibar), develop their own simulated versions of MBE questions, or a combination thereof. In the instance where the law has changed in the licensed question, I believe Adaptibar either lets you know of the change or doesn’t display that rule. Not 100% sure how they handle as I have forgotten.

Did you find the questions to be the same level of difficulty as on the exam?

If you are uncertain, another option you can look into Emmanuel's. Very few have complained about it. Here's a link: https://www.virginiabarprep.com/refer/e ... h-edition/