THEMIS JULY 2018 - DISCUSSION Forum

[Neilt001]

Now we have a thread.

(I passed NY in Feb 2018 with 100% course completion. Lemme know if any questions )

[Ohnt]

Wow! How many hours a day did you study? And for how long? Tips and strategies to staying focused? What were your averaging in the single set practice questions??? Please help!!

[Great45]

Thanks for taking questions!

Did you do the Directed Study or Flex Study approach? Also, did you supplement the course with any other material? (i.e. Adaptibar, One Sheets, etc.)

[MRSP]

Hi, I am debating purchasing Themis and would love to hear your honest review of it. I have purchased adaptibar and have kaplan books from 2014, however I graduated law school in 2014 and have been a stay at home mom since, so I am worried that I need a more regimented prep program/review. Mainly, I feel I need MEE prep assistance and the essay grading option. Can anyone speak to any of these with Themis? I am looking to justify the $2000 price tag. I am looking to purchase (or not) asap so I can start studying. Thanks for your help!

[CALTEX]

I have already begun Themis for the July California Exam. I passed the Texas bar many many many moons ago, so I only need to take the Essay and California Performance test. I've been doing a combination of Directed and Flex study. I would like some pointers on how to memorize the voluminous information!

[Meggoca]

I used Themis to pass MA in Feb, first time writing. I completed about 90% of the course, using directed study for the most part (following their plan) until about a month out, when I did more flex study to focus more on MBE questions. I worked full time so I did my studying from about 6- midnight every day during the week, then put in 12-16 hours on Sat and Sun each day.

[Neilt001]

Wow! How many hours a day did you study? And for how long? Tips and strategies to staying focused? What were your averaging in the single set practice questions??? Please help!!

Hi there! I was working full time and so I had to confine my study to the evenings (where I tried to do 4 hours) and weekend (where I tried to do 7hrs/day). I started in early November, which gave me 4 months (not necessary if you're not working though!)

To be honest my average MBE practice scores weren't great. They started at around 50% and I increased to about 68% by the end. However, I did around 2400 practice questions and finished in the 85th percentile on the MBE in the exam. So all is not lost if you're not doing too well at this early stage!

I recommend sticking to the program, but trying to get ahead where you can. I always did more than I was supposed to on a given day, and that gives you breathing space later on. For the essays, I didn't always bother writing them. Rather, I would just skip em and print off the model answer for my notes, and study those. They're very helpful!

Lemme know if anything else!

[Neilt001]

Thanks for taking questions!

Did you do the Directed Study or Flex Study approach? Also, did you supplement the course with any other material? (i.e. Adaptibar, One Sheets, etc.)

Great question! As I was saying, I was working full-time so I started the program early and stayed within the Flex Study program the entire time. I was always sure to try and do more than assigned on a given day (where possible) so I had more breathing room as the exam approached.

I did get Critical Pass flash cards. They were helpful but I didn't actually use them that much. I found doing practice MBEs on Themis, but ALWAYS reading the explanations and marking my notes whenever there was something I got wrong or didn't know).

[Neilt001]

Hi, I am debating purchasing Themis and would love to hear your honest review of it. I have purchased adaptibar and have kaplan books from 2014, however I graduated law school in 2014 and have been a stay at home mom since, so I am worried that I need a more regimented prep program/review. Mainly, I feel I need MEE prep assistance and the essay grading option. Can anyone speak to any of these with Themis? I am looking to justify the $2000 price tag. I am looking to purchase (or not) asap so I can start studying. Thanks for your help!

Hi there! I graduated in 2011 at an overseas law school so I was in a similar boat. I had a lot of catching up to do and basically had to learn US law from scratch. I also needed a flexible program that was entirely online, because I'm working full time and I'm overseas.

I thought Themis was amazing. While it's all online, you have dedicated essay graders and you also have a supervisor who you can call/email at any time. So there is support. As for the $2000 price tag, I agree it's steep but I think it's the cheapest too!

To me, it sounds like you need a full comprehensive program since it's been so long. I don't think old books will cut it (although I've heard Adaptibar is helpful). I was very happy with Themis! Also if their numbers are right, they have a great pass rate.

Good luck!

[Neilt001]

I have already begun Themis for the July California Exam. I passed the Texas bar many many many moons ago, so I only need to take the Essay and California Performance test. I've been doing a combination of Directed and Flex study. I would like some pointers on how to memorize the voluminous information!

Great question. I quickly realized that the volume of info was insane!! That's gotta be the hardest part of the exam: just memorizing everything. I was pretty daunted and had no idea how I would do it, but I did learn the following:

1. You're able to memorize much more than you think (as you probably know from Texas);
2. Everyone has their own way of memorizing (again, as you probably recall from Texas).
3. For me, as far as the essays go, I printed all the model answers from Themis (deleting the fact-specific stuff) and highlighted all the important rules and explanations, and made notes in the margins about the important elements. I would then study and re-read these highlighted and marked-up essays repeatedly in the lead up to the exam. It eventually sinks in and you'll find that, by the end, all it takes is a glance at the essays and you'll know what the rules are. And the Themis model essays are perfect so even if you don't remember all of it, you'll remember enough to pass.
4. Repetition/memorization. Just keep at it;
5. As you probably recall, things don't click into place until the weeks leading up to the exam. Everything right now is daunting and seems impossible. but it will click if you just keep at it (how can it not?? hehe).
6. Personally, I like distilling everything into very brief notes. So I got to a point where all I needed was the notes to jog my memory. As for the essays, you really do distill them into their basic parts, which can be applied to lots of different fact-patterns. Printing all the answers off may seem like a lot of paperwork, but you eventually learn enough to pass.

The above approach got me the 89th percentile on MEE/MPT so it must've worked! But again everyone is different.

OH I will also say this: I didn't score well on the graded essays. No more than 3 or 4 out of 6 if I was lucky.

Anyway, hope you were able to find something helpful in all that! Good luck

[Neilt001]

I used Themis to pass MA in Feb, first time writing. I completed about 90% of the course, using directed study for the most part (following their plan) until about a month out, when I did more flex study to focus more on MBE questions. I worked full time so I did my studying from about 6- midnight every day during the week, then put in 12-16 hours on Sat and Sun each day.

Agreed - that's the good thing about Themis. You really get that flexibility and it magically recalibrates every day at midnight. but you're right, if you're working full time, it basically takes your whole evenings and weekends for months. Very miserable but it works!

[Beanboi]

Hi, I am debating purchasing Themis and would love to hear your honest review of it. I have purchased adaptibar and have kaplan books from 2014, however I graduated law school in 2014 and have been a stay at home mom since, so I am worried that I need a more regimented prep program/review. Mainly, I feel I need MEE prep assistance and the essay grading option. Can anyone speak to any of these with Themis? I am looking to justify the $2000 price tag. I am looking to purchase (or not) asap so I can start studying. Thanks for your help!

Hey, I graduated in 2012 and have been a stay at home mom. I took the bar for the first time in feb 2018, used Themis and passed. I started early and just worked through the whole program. I also purchased mee one sheets to help give some focus on the mee. Good luck!

[CALTEX]

Thank you so muchh for the pointers! I agree about using Flex study to get ahead!

[Tala29]

Did you use Themis or Barbri? I chose Themis, but I am someone who learns more with detailed information so I am worried Themis is too "superficial". I found one conviser outline from Barbri online and I like it much more than the Themis outlines.

I also have no idea how to review without making my own outlines! Should I do flashcards or mini outlines after each subject? Also I just finished contracts and started with property but feel zero comfortable with contracts. Should I take a day or two to do some studying (maybe do flashcards) before moving on to property?

Sorry, really overwhelmed!

[RareExports]

Checking in. Eep.

[Neilt001]

Did you use Themis or Barbri? I chose Themis, but I am someone who learns more with detailed information so I am worried Themis is too "superficial". I found one conviser outline from Barbri online and I like it much more than the Themis outlines.

I also have no idea how to review without making my own outlines! Should I do flashcards or mini outlines after each subject? Also I just finished contracts and started with property but feel zero comfortable with contracts. Should I take a day or two to do some studying (maybe do flashcards) before moving on to property?

Sorry, really overwhelmed!

Hi there!

Themis contains more than enough info in its outlines to cover everything you need to know. Remember there are lecture outlines (basic outlines to follow during lectures) and then there are subject outlines, which basically contain everything you need to know. I'm surprised you don't think they're comprehensive enough because they have more than you could ever recall.

Also have you done the lectures? In my opinion the lectures alone cover everything you need to know. Personally I didn't read ANY of the outlines and scored in the 90th percentile on the MBE. That was purely watching lectures and taking notes (and lots of practicing!)

It's unlikely you'll ever feel totally comfortable with the subjects once you're done, but the goal is to eventually get to a place where you're doing fairly well on the practice questions. Things won't click until the very end so don't freak out now.

As for taking a day or two to review past subjects, not necessarily a bad idea if you have the time. But remember it's a huge course and all you need is a foundational grasp of each subject. Don't get bogged down in detail because there's simply way too much, and you don't want to risk being behind/stressed/overwhelmed in the final weeks. This isn't law school where you need an in-depth knowledge of each subject so I say just move on and trust the process.

I moved on from each subject even if I didn't understand it fully, and then drilled practice questions until the cows came home. As time progressed, the things I didn't understand became fewer and fewer, and eventually you learn everything you need, and you can fix all those little bits and pieces you didn't fully understand earlier on. Ultimately my opinion is stay the course, don't expect to know "everything" now (that's simply not possible at this stage, or ever), and just understand that things will fall into place simply by virtue of the sheer amount of time you're going to spend with these subjects over the coming months.

GOOD LUCK!

[Neilt001]

Checking in. Eep.

WELP!!

[ithrowds]

For those taking Themis - I'm looking into supplements like Adaptibar for MBE questions. Do people generally just use the Adaptibar MBE questions or do they also get the flashcards/video lectures from them as well? For instance, I want to get some flashcards, but not sure if its better to get the Adaptibar flashcards or the Critical Pass ones.

[Neilt001]

For those taking Themis - I'm looking into supplements like Adaptibar for MBE questions. Do people generally just use the Adaptibar MBE questions or do they also get the flashcards/video lectures from them as well? For instance, I want to get some flashcards, but not sure if its better to get the Adaptibar flashcards or the Critical Pass ones.

Hi there,

Themis is designed not to need anything additional to supplement its MBE questions. However, I did purchase Critical Pass as well, and used them at night to consolidate my learning. Not sure if they were helpful or not. And I know people got Adaptibar as well but I haven't tried it.

[gladiator0flaw11]

Did anyone start so far? If so, do you find it was worth the money? I'm covering Contracts & Sales following the recommended study schedule and hesitant about enrolling in this course. I feel the practice questions and essays with feedback are the only things that can really help, but not sure if it's even possible to jump 30 points to a 266 and pass. fml

[Neilt001]

Did anyone start so far? If so, do you find it was worth the money? I'm covering Contracts & Sales following the recommended study schedule and hesitant about enrolling in this course. I feel the practice questions and essays with feedback are the only things that can really help, but not sure if it's even possible to jump 30 points to a 266 and pass. fml

So you haven't enrolled yet but you've started studying and you're wondering whether to enrol? I guess you need to choose a review course. As for practice questions and graded essays, I agree that's what you need if you've already written the bar before. Maybe not much point in doing all the lectures again? (unless you need to brush up on content).

[nhanhieulogo]

I have already begun Themis for the July California Exam. I passed the Texas bar many many many moons ago, so I only need to take the Essay and California Performance test. I've been doing a combination of Directed and Flex study. I would like some pointers on how to memorize the voluminous information!

[Neilt001]

I have already begun Themis for the July California Exam. I passed the Texas bar many many many moons ago, so I only need to take the Essay and California Performance test. I've been doing a combination of Directed and Flex study. I would like some pointers on how to memorize the voluminous information!

Your post today is verbatim the exact same that CALTEX posted last week (see above), and also see my reply to it on May 3rd!! Good luck

[Tala29]

Did you use Themis or Barbri? I chose Themis, but I am someone who learns more with detailed information so I am worried Themis is too "superficial". I found one conviser outline from Barbri online and I like it much more than the Themis outlines.

I also have no idea how to review without making my own outlines! Should I do flashcards or mini outlines after each subject? Also I just finished contracts and started with property but feel zero comfortable with contracts. Should I take a day or two to do some studying (maybe do flashcards) before moving on to property?

Sorry, really overwhelmed!

Hi there!

Themis contains more than enough info in its outlines to cover everything you need to know. Remember there are lecture outlines (basic outlines to follow during lectures) and then there are subject outlines, which basically contain everything you need to know. I'm surprised you don't think they're comprehensive enough because they have more than you could ever recall.

Also have you done the lectures? In my opinion the lectures alone cover everything you need to know. Personally I didn't read ANY of the outlines and scored in the 90th percentile on the MBE. That was purely watching lectures and taking notes (and lots of practicing!)

It's unlikely you'll ever feel totally comfortable with the subjects once you're done, but the goal is to eventually get to a place where you're doing fairly well on the practice questions. Things won't click until the very end so don't freak out now.

As for taking a day or two to review past subjects, not necessarily a bad idea if you have the time. But remember it's a huge course and all you need is a foundational grasp of each subject. Don't get bogged down in detail because there's simply way too much, and you don't want to risk being behind/stressed/overwhelmed in the final weeks. This isn't law school where you need an in-depth knowledge of each subject so I say just move on and trust the process.

I moved on from each subject even if I didn't understand it fully, and then drilled practice questions until the cows came home. As time progressed, the things I didn't understand became fewer and fewer, and eventually you learn everything you need, and you can fix all those little bits and pieces you didn't fully understand earlier on. Ultimately my opinion is stay the course, don't expect to know "everything" now (that's simply not possible at this stage, or ever), and just understand that things will fall into place simply by virtue of the sheer amount of time you're going to spend with these subjects over the coming months.

GOOD LUCK!

Thank you! This is really helpful!

Are the practice questions only the PQ sets that come after each subject or are there more questions by the end once I finish all subjects? Should I maybe buy Adaptibar questions to drill more questions toward the end (if I have time)?

You are right the outlines are actually really comprehensive. I don't feel I learn much by doing them though. Even though I think the lectures are a bit of a waste of time I do learn much more during those than by reading the large outlines which I skim very fast anyways. Did you use the lecture handout outline to review?

[Neilt001]

Thank you! This is really helpful!

Are the practice questions only the PQ sets that come after each subject or are there more questions by the end once I finish all subjects? Should I maybe buy Adaptibar questions to drill more questions toward the end (if I have time)?

You are right the outlines are actually really comprehensive. I don't feel I learn much by doing them though. Even though I think the lectures are a bit of a waste of time I do learn much more during those than by reading the large outlines which I skim very fast anyways. Did you use the lecture handout outline to review?

No worries!

So that type of practice question you're seeing at the end of each lecture (and then at the end of each the subject) isn't the real MBE exam questions. They're just easy questions which Themis says are designed to help with memory (apparently). You'll soon start doing the real MBE practice questions, which you'll see are longer and timed. These are the real MBE questions and many of them are actually official NCBE questions. From what I recall, you'll start those real questions pretty soon, and they will continue throughout the rest of the course. They start out being subject-specific (depending on what subjects you've completed), but by the time you're done all the subjects they become mixed. By the end of the course you will have done well over 2000 MBE practice questions (I did 2400), which is great practice. Take a look at your schedule over the coming weeks and I'm sure you'll see the MBE practice questions coming up pretty soon. So the answer is no, you won't be waiting until the end for the MBE practice questions.

I know some people got additional MBE questions from adaptibar etc. Personally I didn't find the need to do this because there's plenty of MBE questions on Themis (way more than you'll ever do), but some people found it helpful. What I did find helpful were flash cards so I could drill and memorize MBE subjects before bed or while travelling etc.

I agree with you about the outlines. I just skimmed them and probably didn't remember anything. That's why I preferred the lectures, making notes/outlines as I watched. I guess they offer both outlines AND lectures so you can choose which way you wanna learn. And nope, I didn't use the lecture handout outlines to review because I wanted to make my own notes using boxes and arrows and such (but I did use the lecture outlines to help with writing my own notes). So again, I think it's up to personal preference with all this stuff. I think Themis is pretty good at giving you the tools and it's up to you to decide how best you wanna learn the material.