Waiting on 2018 Feb bar result Forum

[pfunkera]

All that and it doesn't begin to get me started on Illinois only releasing your score if you fail. Three years of school, months of studying and stress, another chunk of time over analyzing and wondering about results and then you are never told how you did - I find that ridiculous and patently unfair.

I think my state releases scores, but it is just dumb for any state not to. We put way too much time, money, and effort into the test to not know how we did. The crazy thing is the people who are involved are all lawyers - right? You would think they have some sympathy and release all scores to test takers. I hated that in law school too. Study your butt off any get your grade but never really know how you did. Of course you can go in and see your test as your prof hovers over you, but who has time for that.

well, it could be worse . . .

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/grace-h ... aaba9.html

That linked story is crazy.

I really don't understand the logic in not providing the score. I know Illinois isn't the only state that holds the scores for passers, but I am also aware that Michigan is not the only state that does give the scores out. Beyond a simple fairness argument that I had previously mentioned, wouldn't it also be beneficial for students to know their scores and then report back to/about these different programs?

I for one was a test subject of sorts for Adaptibar, I really wanted to know what my before and after scores were after using the program. I had taken two previous bars and score basically the same thing (141 and 140) I had used the program and felt super confident and really wanted to know how much (if at all) the score had gone up. I would have definitely reported back on a site like this and spoken to friends about it with a real example of a score improvement (if it happened). But because Illinois hides the score all I know is that I passed and I don't know if I otherwise kept the same MBE score and did well on essays, or if I crushed the MBE and the essays didn't really matter.

The only argument I have been able to come up with (or have heard when discussing it with others) is that a Board of Law Examiners may not wish to release the passing scores so that employers won't ask about it during interviews - they know you passed by having the ARDC # and that's sufficient. If that is the real reason I think that is lame and second of all, having lived and worked in Michigan for years I was NEVER asked what my score was outside of the context of the first few days of scores being released and chatting with friends. No employer ever asked.

Id love to know what other reasons there can be and if there are even remotely as compelling as:
1 - you're entitled to them by paying for 3+ years of school, bar prep and the payment to take the test and going through C&F.
2 - to make grading/scoring accountable and transparent
3 - to hold bar prep companies accountable

I think if you put 5-10 lawyers in a room they can come up with about 20 reasons not to do just about anything. Of course, I would bet a ton of money that some people would still call to try and question their score even when they passed! I only really care about my MBE score because of all the time I put into practice questions. I know if I performed how I did on practice questions I likely passed but of course I don't know that yet nor know when I will know.

I have heard rumors about some states not grading the essays if a student scores high enough on the MBE portion so that could be a reason? Although, I do not reallyI believe those rumors .

[ndbigdave]

All that and it doesn't begin to get me started on Illinois only releasing your score if you fail. Three years of school, months of studying and stress, another chunk of time over analyzing and wondering about results and then you are never told how you did - I find that ridiculous and patently unfair.

I think my state releases scores, but it is just dumb for any state not to. We put way too much time, money, and effort into the test to not know how we did. The crazy thing is the people who are involved are all lawyers - right? You would think they have some sympathy and release all scores to test takers. I hated that in law school too. Study your butt off any get your grade but never really know how you did. Of course you can go in and see your test as your prof hovers over you, but who has time for that.

well, it could be worse . . .

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/grace-h ... aaba9.html

That linked story is crazy.

I really don't understand the logic in not providing the score. I know Illinois isn't the only state that holds the scores for passers, but I am also aware that Michigan is not the only state that does give the scores out. Beyond a simple fairness argument that I had previously mentioned, wouldn't it also be beneficial for students to know their scores and then report back to/about these different programs?

I for one was a test subject of sorts for Adaptibar, I really wanted to know what my before and after scores were after using the program. I had taken two previous bars and score basically the same thing (141 and 140) I had used the program and felt super confident and really wanted to know how much (if at all) the score had gone up. I would have definitely reported back on a site like this and spoken to friends about it with a real example of a score improvement (if it happened). But because Illinois hides the score all I know is that I passed and I don't know if I otherwise kept the same MBE score and did well on essays, or if I crushed the MBE and the essays didn't really matter.

The only argument I have been able to come up with (or have heard when discussing it with others) is that a Board of Law Examiners may not wish to release the passing scores so that employers won't ask about it during interviews - they know you passed by having the ARDC # and that's sufficient. If that is the real reason I think that is lame and second of all, having lived and worked in Michigan for years I was NEVER asked what my score was outside of the context of the first few days of scores being released and chatting with friends. No employer ever asked.

Id love to know what other reasons there can be and if there are even remotely as compelling as:
1 - you're entitled to them by paying for 3+ years of school, bar prep and the payment to take the test and going through C&F.
2 - to make grading/scoring accountable and transparent
3 - to hold bar prep companies accountable

I think if you put 5-10 lawyers in a room they can come up with about 20 reasons not to do just about anything. Of course, I would bet a ton of money that some people would still call to try and question their score even when they passed! I only really care about my MBE score because of all the time I put into practice questions. I know if I performed how I did on practice questions I likely passed but of course I don't know that yet nor know when I will know.

I have heard rumors about some states not grading the essays if a student scores high enough on the MBE portion so that could be a reason? Although, I do not reallyI believe those rumors .

I have heard similar rumors (about applicants at certain MBE scores not having essays graded) and though we may be able to conjure up some arguments or reasons for not disclosing the scores I still maintain that my top three reasons trump them and are far more compelling.

Im starting to think Illinois may not be released until the 6th - in the last few cycles the scoring memo and percentile equivilent pages update with new info the day before. Its possible that it will happen later today (Ill be checking on behalf of my significant other) but my confidence in the 3/30 release date has been shaken a bit.

For those who are Illinois takers there are two pages that will (eventually) change for the February 2018 exam:

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/july-2017-scoring-memo
https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/feb-201 ... ent-charts

In the past you could change the month/year in that URL and bring up the site prior to it actually being released - it wont help you know if you passed/failed but it would ensure what day the results were being released and would be a time killer to play around with.

[maxmartin]

All that and it doesn't begin to get me started on Illinois only releasing your score if you fail. Three years of school, months of studying and stress, another chunk of time over analyzing and wondering about results and then you are never told how you did - I find that ridiculous and patently unfair.

I think my state releases scores, but it is just dumb for any state not to. We put way too much time, money, and effort into the test to not know how we did. The crazy thing is the people who are involved are all lawyers - right? You would think they have some sympathy and release all scores to test takers. I hated that in law school too. Study your butt off any get your grade but never really know how you did. Of course you can go in and see your test as your prof hovers over you, but who has time for that.

well, it could be worse . . .

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/grace-h ... aaba9.html

That linked story is crazy.

I really don't understand the logic in not providing the score. I know Illinois isn't the only state that holds the scores for passers, but I am also aware that Michigan is not the only state that does give the scores out. Beyond a simple fairness argument that I had previously mentioned, wouldn't it also be beneficial for students to know their scores and then report back to/about these different programs?

I for one was a test subject of sorts for Adaptibar, I really wanted to know what my before and after scores were after using the program. I had taken two previous bars and score basically the same thing (141 and 140) I had used the program and felt super confident and really wanted to know how much (if at all) the score had gone up. I would have definitely reported back on a site like this and spoken to friends about it with a real example of a score improvement (if it happened). But because Illinois hides the score all I know is that I passed and I don't know if I otherwise kept the same MBE score and did well on essays, or if I crushed the MBE and the essays didn't really matter.

The only argument I have been able to come up with (or have heard when discussing it with others) is that a Board of Law Examiners may not wish to release the passing scores so that employers won't ask about it during interviews - they know you passed by having the ARDC # and that's sufficient. If that is the real reason I think that is lame and second of all, having lived and worked in Michigan for years I was NEVER asked what my score was outside of the context of the first few days of scores being released and chatting with friends. No employer ever asked.

Id love to know what other reasons there can be and if there are even remotely as compelling as:
1 - you're entitled to them by paying for 3+ years of school, bar prep and the payment to take the test and going through C&F.
2 - to make grading/scoring accountable and transparent
3 - to hold bar prep companies accountable

I think if you put 5-10 lawyers in a room they can come up with about 20 reasons not to do just about anything. Of course, I would bet a ton of money that some people would still call to try and question their score even when they passed! I only really care about my MBE score because of all the time I put into practice questions. I know if I performed how I did on practice questions I likely passed but of course I don't know that yet nor know when I will know.

I have heard rumors about some states not grading the essays if a student scores high enough on the MBE portion so that could be a reason? Although, I do not reallyI believe those rumors .

It is not a rumor. It is called a simple math question. Essays are scaled in many states, in some states the lowest you can get is 50 or 40 even you only wrote one sentence. So your high MBE and your lowest essay score possible already guarantee your pass. And many high MBEers won't get the lowest essay score anyway , so those state bar examiners may adjust the autopassing MBE score slightly.

[ndbigdave]

It is not a rumor. It is called a simple math question. Essays are scaled in many states, in some states the lowest you can get is 50 or 40 even you only wrote one sentence. So your high MBE and your lowest essay score possible already guarantee your pass. And many high MBEers won't get the lowest essay score anyway , so those state bar examiners may adjust the autopassing MBE score slightly.

I understand what you are saying and certainly, it makes common sense (if you are scoring in the 160s on the MBE what are the odds you'd score below 110 on the essays - gotta assume low to non-existent and there are those that hit a certain threshold on the MBE that they CANT fail because of the floor score on essays), but how many people score high enough on the MBE that it isn't at least POSSIBLE that their essay score will be too low? There was a time, specifically in Michigan and some other states where you could "multi-state out" by hitting a threshold on the MBE. The score was known by students and it was a strategy for many students at the time. If they are ostensibly doing the same thing but not telling students that it is an option (hit this threshold, we don't read your essays) then that is pretty stupid. It's just a game to make you spend time on subjects other than the 7 MBE.

Furthermore, assuming it is true there is an MBE cut-off that causes your essays to not be scored that means that the MBE is scored and scaled VERY quickly and the NCBE sits on the national averages for weeks before releasing them...which seems odd. Just doesn't add up, send scores to NCBE, NCBE returns the scores, the state bar picks out those with the highest scores to not grade essays and then sends out those that must be graded for grading all while doing so in about 4 weeks (in the case of Illinois).

All this uncertainty just adds to the argument that the process and grading should be more transparent.

[pfunkera]

All that and it doesn't begin to get me started on Illinois only releasing your score if you fail. Three years of school, months of studying and stress, another chunk of time over analyzing and wondering about results and then you are never told how you did - I find that ridiculous and patently unfair.

I think my state releases scores, but it is just dumb for any state not to. We put way too much time, money, and effort into the test to not know how we did. The crazy thing is the people who are involved are all lawyers - right? You would think they have some sympathy and release all scores to test takers. I hated that in law school too. Study your butt off any get your grade but never really know how you did. Of course you can go in and see your test as your prof hovers over you, but who has time for that.

well, it could be worse . . .

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/grace-h ... aaba9.html

That linked story is crazy.

I really don't understand the logic in not providing the score. I know Illinois isn't the only state that holds the scores for passers, but I am also aware that Michigan is not the only state that does give the scores out. Beyond a simple fairness argument that I had previously mentioned, wouldn't it also be beneficial for students to know their scores and then report back to/about these different programs?

I for one was a test subject of sorts for Adaptibar, I really wanted to know what my before and after scores were after using the program. I had taken two previous bars and score basically the same thing (141 and 140) I had used the program and felt super confident and really wanted to know how much (if at all) the score had gone up. I would have definitely reported back on a site like this and spoken to friends about it with a real example of a score improvement (if it happened). But because Illinois hides the score all I know is that I passed and I don't know if I otherwise kept the same MBE score and did well on essays, or if I crushed the MBE and the essays didn't really matter.

The only argument I have been able to come up with (or have heard when discussing it with others) is that a Board of Law Examiners may not wish to release the passing scores so that employers won't ask about it during interviews - they know you passed by having the ARDC # and that's sufficient. If that is the real reason I think that is lame and second of all, having lived and worked in Michigan for years I was NEVER asked what my score was outside of the context of the first few days of scores being released and chatting with friends. No employer ever asked.

Id love to know what other reasons there can be and if there are even remotely as compelling as:
1 - you're entitled to them by paying for 3+ years of school, bar prep and the payment to take the test and going through C&F.
2 - to make grading/scoring accountable and transparent
3 - to hold bar prep companies accountable

I think if you put 5-10 lawyers in a room they can come up with about 20 reasons not to do just about anything. Of course, I would bet a ton of money that some people would still call to try and question their score even when they passed! I only really care about my MBE score because of all the time I put into practice questions. I know if I performed how I did on practice questions I likely passed but of course I don't know that yet nor know when I will know.

I have heard rumors about some states not grading the essays if a student scores high enough on the MBE portion so that could be a reason? Although, I do not reallyI believe those rumors .

It is not a rumor. It is called a simple math question. Essays are scaled in many states, in some states the lowest you can get is 50 or 40 even you only wrote one sentence. So your high MBE and your lowest essay score possible already guarantee your pass. And many high MBEers won't get the lowest essay score anyway , so those state bar examiners may adjust the autopassing MBE score slightly.

It may be a simple math question, but doesn't change the fact that some states release scores and others do not. Some states, luckily mine included, have decided to grade the full exam and release scores. All states should do that based on the effort people put in. If it is a money thing, then charge an extra $50 upfront for those that want to see their scores if they pass.

[JackSparrow123]

All that and it doesn't begin to get me started on Illinois only releasing your score if you fail. Three years of school, months of studying and stress, another chunk of time over analyzing and wondering about results and then you are never told how you did - I find that ridiculous and patently unfair.

I think my state releases scores, but it is just dumb for any state not to. We put way too much time, money, and effort into the test to not know how we did. The crazy thing is the people who are involved are all lawyers - right? You would think they have some sympathy and release all scores to test takers. I hated that in law school too. Study your butt off any get your grade but never really know how you did. Of course you can go in and see your test as your prof hovers over you, but who has time for that.

well, it could be worse . . .

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/grace-h ... aaba9.html

That linked story is crazy.

I really don't understand the logic in not providing the score. I know Illinois isn't the only state that holds the scores for passers, but I am also aware that Michigan is not the only state that does give the scores out. Beyond a simple fairness argument that I had previously mentioned, wouldn't it also be beneficial for students to know their scores and then report back to/about these different programs?

I for one was a test subject of sorts for Adaptibar, I really wanted to know what my before and after scores were after using the program. I had taken two previous bars and score basically the same thing (141 and 140) I had used the program and felt super confident and really wanted to know how much (if at all) the score had gone up. I would have definitely reported back on a site like this and spoken to friends about it with a real example of a score improvement (if it happened). But because Illinois hides the score all I know is that I passed and I don't know if I otherwise kept the same MBE score and did well on essays, or if I crushed the MBE and the essays didn't really matter.

The only argument I have been able to come up with (or have heard when discussing it with others) is that a Board of Law Examiners may not wish to release the passing scores so that employers won't ask about it during interviews - they know you passed by having the ARDC # and that's sufficient. If that is the real reason I think that is lame and second of all, having lived and worked in Michigan for years I was NEVER asked what my score was outside of the context of the first few days of scores being released and chatting with friends. No employer ever asked.

Id love to know what other reasons there can be and if there are even remotely as compelling as:
1 - you're entitled to them by paying for 3+ years of school, bar prep and the payment to take the test and going through C&F.
2 - to make grading/scoring accountable and transparent
3 - to hold bar prep companies accountable

I think if you put 5-10 lawyers in a room they can come up with about 20 reasons not to do just about anything. Of course, I would bet a ton of money that some people would still call to try and question their score even when they passed! I only really care about my MBE score because of all the time I put into practice questions. I know if I performed how I did on practice questions I likely passed but of course I don't know that yet nor know when I will know.

I have heard rumors about some states not grading the essays if a student scores high enough on the MBE portion so that could be a reason? Although, I do not reallyI believe those rumors .

It is not a rumor. It is called a simple math question. Essays are scaled in many states, in some states the lowest you can get is 50 or 40 even you only wrote one sentence. So your high MBE and your lowest essay score possible already guarantee your pass. And many high MBEers won't get the lowest essay score anyway , so those state bar examiners may adjust the autopassing MBE score slightly.

It may be a simple math question, but doesn't change the fact that some states release scores and others do not. Some states, luckily mine included, have decided to grade the full exam and release scores. All states should do that based on the effort people put in. If it is a money thing, then charge an extra $50 upfront for those that want to see their scores if they pass.

So extreme and outrageous beyond limits of human decency.

[pfunkera]

I guess some states will release this week? This past weekend was a long weekend of not knowing.

[pfunkera]

Illinois results looks like a slight drop in MBE scores from last February? I may be reading this wrong though.

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/percent ... s-feb-2018

[LSATobsessed]

Illinois results looks like a slight drop in MBE scores from last February? I may be reading this wrong though.

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/percent ... s-feb-2018

for a florida taker, is this a good thing or a bad thing in terms of curve?

[pfunkera]

Illinois results looks like a slight drop in MBE scores from last February? I may be reading this wrong though.

https://www.ilbaradmissions.org/percent ... s-feb-2018

for a florida taker, is this a good thing or a bad thing in terms of curve?

Only based on IL results, but the median scaled MBE score appears (50 percentile not provided) a little lower for IL test takers this year compared to Feb, 2017. I figure that would roughly translate to other jurisdictions but who knows. Your score is your score, but the initial results indicate a lower median. Because the passing score has not changed, should result in a slightly lower passage rate overall compared to last year if the IL MBE results are indicative of how other state test takers performed.

[LSATobsessed]

I don't know this all works, does this mean that there is a higher possibility of getting more scaled points added to a raw mbe score?

[pfunkera]

I don't know this all works, does this mean that there is a higher possibility of getting more scaled points added to a raw mbe score?

I am no expert, but pretty sure we will not know our raw MBE scores or amount of points added. Some states don't even release your scores if you pass.

[dreamofNYC]

I am so tired of thinking about law school, studying for the bar exam, and now stressing about the result. I just want all of this to be over with. I think my state will release results next Friday or the following Monday.

OMG brother/sistah, you just summed up perfectly how I feel!!

[ProfessionalWaiter]

All that and it doesn't begin to get me started on Illinois only releasing your score if you fail. Three years of school, months of studying and stress, another chunk of time over analyzing and wondering about results and then you are never told how you did - I find that ridiculous and patently unfair.

I think my state releases scores, but it is just dumb for any state not to. We put way too much time, money, and effort into the test to not know how we did. The crazy thing is the people who are involved are all lawyers - right? You would think they have some sympathy and release all scores to test takers. I hated that in law school too. Study your butt off any get your grade but never really know how you did. Of course you can go in and see your test as your prof hovers over you, but who has time for that.

well, it could be worse . . .

http://www.omaha.com/news/metro/grace-h ... aaba9.html

OH WOW. I honestly would have considered letting sleeping dogs lie in that case. How do you make up for an error that severe? I really feel for the eleven. There's already enough stress, this is just terrible.

[Smiddywesson]

It is not a rumor. It is called a simple math question. Essays are scaled in many states, in some states the lowest you can get is 50 or 40 even you only wrote one sentence. So your high MBE and your lowest essay score possible already guarantee your pass. And many high MBEers won't get the lowest essay score anyway , so those state bar examiners may adjust the autopassing MBE score slightly.

I understand what you are saying and certainly, it makes common sense (if you are scoring in the 160s on the MBE what are the odds you'd score below 110 on the essays - gotta assume low to non-existent and there are those that hit a certain threshold on the MBE that they CANT fail because of the floor score on essays), but how many people score high enough on the MBE that it isn't at least POSSIBLE that their essay score will be too low? There was a time, specifically in Michigan and some other states where you could "multi-state out" by hitting a threshold on the MBE. The score was known by students and it was a strategy for many students at the time. If they are ostensibly doing the same thing but not telling students that it is an option (hit this threshold, we don't read your essays) then that is pretty stupid. It's just a game to make you spend time on subjects other than the 7 MBE.

Furthermore, assuming it is true there is an MBE cut-off that causes your essays to not be scored that means that the MBE is scored and scaled VERY quickly and the NCBE sits on the national averages for weeks before releasing them...which seems odd. Just doesn't add up, send scores to NCBE, NCBE returns the scores, the state bar picks out those with the highest scores to not grade essays and then sends out those that must be graded for grading all while doing so in about 4 weeks (in the case of Illinois).

All this uncertainty just adds to the argument that the process and grading should be more transparent.

"...if you are scoring in the 160s on the MBE what are the odds you'd score below 110 on the essays"

Oh I don't know, probably the same odds of me spending a YEAR to average above a 91% on Adaptibar and then have my crappy laptop touchpad glitch and jump my cursor around the page for 7.5 hours. Odds are funny like that, so now I am cruising through old posts with no fingernails waiting for Mississippi to release the grades. I just may be retaking in July with the biggest spread between MBE and essays scores in state history. It sucks to be me for the next few weeks.