2018 July California Bar Forum

[ContingentRemainder]

Hey..I've been reading this thread but this is my first post!

Wondering if anyone knows the answer to this question; can you still rip the task memo out of the performance test? I know they changed the format recently, some of my older materials mention that this is the way to go, but I can't seem to find any info indicating whether or not it's still allowed.

Thanks!

[ithrowds]

Whats everyones thoughts on Evidence? I haven't taken it in law school and am learning it for the first time right now through Themis and am a bit overwhelmed. Any tips?

[ContingentRemainder]

Whats everyones thoughts on Evidence? I haven't taken it in law school and am learning it for the first time right now through Themis and am a bit overwhelmed. Any tips?

I took evidence in school, but I felt like evidence was one of my weaker subjects at first, too. Then I took some time and hammered it out one subject at a time before starting Barbri. Now it's one of my better subjects (TBH I feel like I need to do this with Civ Pro now as well).

Since it's an essential (MBE) topic, I'd take some time to really understand the big topics like relevance, impeachment, character evidence, and hearsay. With the possible exception of relevance, those topics all require a system. So, understand the intricacies of those systems and you should at least be able to get by enough to take practice MBEs and essays, so you can improve that way while you continue to review them. If you're worried about the California distinctions, I'd focus on federal evidence, and maybe even the other MBE subjects (if you're weak at them) first.

[dabigchina]

Whats everyones thoughts on Evidence? I haven't taken it in law school and am learning it for the first time right now through Themis and am a bit overwhelmed. Any tips?

Evidence is not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. Themis's lecturer for it was absolutely terrible, which definitely did not help. I'm leaving them a poor review in the hopes that they get a new guy next year.

[a male human]

Whats everyones thoughts on Evidence? I haven't taken it in law school and am learning it for the first time right now through Themis and am a bit overwhelmed. Any tips?

Would a shorter outline help? Something like this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cy1xj3pa9n374 ... e.pdf?dl=0

[justanotheruser]

Whats everyones thoughts on Evidence? I haven't taken it in law school and am learning it for the first time right now through Themis and am a bit overwhelmed. Any tips?

First of all, you'd be weird if you DIDN'T feel overwhelmed by Evidence. A ton of different rules for MBE, more than most essay topics Evidence will be a big time crunch, and then there are the CA distinctions. A general thing I'd say is that while it is easy to get overwhelmed by the breadth that Evidence covers, some sub-topics are a lot more important than others.

I think for MBEs, it helps to master the biggest areas first (e.g. HEARSAY). If/when time is of the essence, I essentially studied more granular rules through the answer explanations, etc.

For essays, I think one of the most helpful things is to have a very short checklist of major issues. Once you have that down and start doing Evidence essays, you'll notice the finite universe of issues (including CA distinctions) that keep popping up in each major issue. As you start committing that checklist to memory, you know you'll be going through every major issue and getting at least a few sub-issues in each area.

The danger (at least for me) with Evidence essays is that since I know it's a race to the finish (quickly discuss as many issues as possible), I ended up talking about *too many* issues that were a stretch to include. The best thing to do here (as above) is to compare to model answers, etc. You've probably been recommended it a bunch of times before, but BarEssays is king here.

Let me know if I can elaborate on anything.

[ithrowds]

Whats everyones thoughts on Evidence? I haven't taken it in law school and am learning it for the first time right now through Themis and am a bit overwhelmed. Any tips?

Would a shorter outline help? Something like this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cy1xj3pa9n374 ... e.pdf?dl=0

Wow, thanks for this - this is incredibly helpful!

[ithrowds]

First of all, you'd be weird if you DIDN'T feel overwhelmed by Evidence. A ton of different rules for MBE, more than most essay topics Evidence will be a big time crunch, and then there are the CA distinctions. A general thing I'd say is that while it is easy to get overwhelmed by the breadth that Evidence covers, some sub-topics are a lot more important than others.

I think for MBEs, it helps to master the biggest areas first (e.g. HEARSAY). If/when time is of the essence, I essentially studied more granular rules through the answer explanations, etc.

For essays, I think one of the most helpful things is to have a very short checklist of major issues. Once you have that down and start doing Evidence essays, you'll notice the finite universe of issues (including CA distinctions) that keep popping up in each major issue. As you start committing that checklist to memory, you know you'll be going through every major issue and getting at least a few sub-issues in each area.

The danger (at least for me) with Evidence essays is that since I know it's a race to the finish (quickly discuss as many issues as possible), I ended up talking about *too many* issues that were a stretch to include. The best thing to do here (as above) is to compare to model answers, etc. You've probably been recommended it a bunch of times before, but BarEssays is king here.

Let me know if I can elaborate on anything.

Thank you! I think I'm starting to get a bit of a better handle on the MBE questions at least.

[Get-it-done]

Hey..I've been reading this thread but this is my first post!

Wondering if anyone knows the answer to this question; can you still rip the task memo out of the performance test? I know they changed the format recently, some of my older materials mention that this is the way to go, but I can't seem to find any info indicating whether or not it's still allowed.

Thanks!

Hi ContingentRemainder,

A friend who took the Utah bar exam told me she tore apart the pages from the PT and received a letter from the Utah State Bar asking her why she did that. It appears that in Utah, that is NOT allowed. Luckily, in California you can tear out whatever pages you want. I have taken the exam twice and I tear it apart and place in piles. It's easier for me to see the whole picture that way.

[barprepforca]

The thing that kills me about evidence is the different ways it can be admitted. You have evidence that can go to the truth of the matter, then you have impeachment (which i've seen as both encompassing and exclusive evidence), and then you have the possibility for evidence that can be admitted circumstantially as well. And each one has different rules to apply that just leave your head spinning. I'm hoping more essays will help.

[psg190]

What do people do on BARBRI days where it says to reread the various Conviser Mini Review subjects? I get nothing out of this.

Also, at this point I feel like my retention is at 0%. To date, BARBRI's assignments have taken up the better part of most of my days, and I haven't used Adaptibar/baressays at all. Wondering if it's time to jettison BARBRI, with the exception of lectures, and start memorizing for hours on end every day, supplemented by outlining a few essays and doing an hour or two of Adaptibar.

Thoughts of punting until February are also creeping into my mind with greater frequency.

[ContingentRemainder]

Hey..I've been reading this thread but this is my first post!

Wondering if anyone knows the answer to this question; can you still rip the task memo out of the performance test? I know they changed the format recently, some of my older materials mention that this is the way to go, but I can't seem to find any info indicating whether or not it's still allowed.

Thanks!

Hi ContingentRemainder,

A friend who took the Utah bar exam told me she tore apart the pages from the PT and received a letter from the Utah State Bar asking her why she did that. It appears that in Utah, that is NOT allowed. Luckily, in California you can tear out whatever pages you want. I have taken the exam twice and I tear it apart and place in piles. It's easier for me to see the whole picture that way.

Thank you! I didn't even notice, but it looks like someone asked this same question in a separate thread too.

[FinallyPassedTheBar]

What do people do on BARBRI days where it says to reread the various Conviser Mini Review subjects? I get nothing out of this.

Also, at this point I feel like my retention is at 0%. To date, BARBRI's assignments have taken up the better part of most of my days, and I haven't used Adaptibar/baressays at all. Wondering if it's time to jettison BARBRI, with the exception of lectures, and start memorizing for hours on end every day, supplemented by outlining a few essays and doing an hour or two of Adaptibar.

Thoughts of punting until February are also creeping into my mind with greater frequency.

IMHO, if you need to cut anything out of your review, cut out those lectures first. Look over your in-class handouts, and fill it out by yourself using the Convisor mini-review book. If you find yourself stuck on a certain area, then you can go watch a lecture for that subject. It''s more efficient to use the time you've saved to write essays and answer MBE questions. You can learn a lot of law just by doing that.

[psg190]

IMHO, if you need to cut anything out of your review, cut out those lectures first. Look over your in-class handouts, and fill it out by yourself using the Convisor mini-review book. If you find yourself stuck on a certain area, then you can go watch a lecture for that subject. It''s more efficient to use the time you've saved to write essays and answer MBE questions. You can learn a lot of law just by doing that.

Ironically enough, the lectures are one of the things I genuinely enjoy about BARBRI (with the exception of the wills & trusts lectures). I'm several years removed from law school and I generally find the lectures and hypotheticals to be helpful in refreshing my recollection of the various subjects.

[a male human]

IMHO, if you need to cut anything out of your review, cut out those lectures first. Look over your in-class handouts, and fill it out by yourself using the Convisor mini-review book. If you find yourself stuck on a certain area, then you can go watch a lecture for that subject. It''s more efficient to use the time you've saved to write essays and answer MBE questions. You can learn a lot of law just by doing that.

Ironically enough, the lectures are one of the things I genuinely enjoy about BARBRI (with the exception of the wills & trusts lectures). I'm several years removed from law school and I generally find the lectures and hypotheticals to be helpful in refreshing my recollection of the various subjects.

Yeah for sure. I'm not a big fan of lectures, but you should use them to the extent they help. Just don't obsess over them in favor of doing the things that will improve your work.

[santoki]

what remedy is available if specific performance for a sale of land is barred because of sale to a bona fide purchaser?

[mrlawguy]

what remedy is available if specific performance for a sale of land is barred because of sale to a bona fide purchaser?

You'd just have to get a judgment lien against the Seller. I highly doubt that the bar examiners would go this deep though.

[Underoath]

Adaptibar Criminal Law Question:

Basically in one question the answer is: "Cannot be convicted of arson because he burned the dwelling with the consent of the owner."

Yet, in another question the reasoning was: "Homeowner is guilty of felony murder with the underlying felony being arson because he allowed his friend to burn down the building for insurance money."

Please help! I don't understand how it's arson in ONE instance and not in the other.

[a male human]

In the second question, is committing insurance fraud a felony? I don't know the question, but maybe it hints at that.

[maiden42]

Adaptibar Criminal Law Question:

Basically in one question the answer is: "Cannot be convicted of arson because he burned the dwelling with the consent of the owner."

Yet, in another question the reasoning was: "Homeowner is guilty of felony murder with the underlying felony being arson because he allowed his friend to burn down the building for insurance money."

Please help! I don't understand how it's arson in ONE instance and not in the other.

In Q1, is the person burning down the house to commit some of crime, or just burning down a house with consent of the owner (which could be legal)?

[psg190]

IMHO, if you need to cut anything out of your review, cut out those lectures first. Look over your in-class handouts, and fill it out by yourself using the Convisor mini-review book. If you find yourself stuck on a certain area, then you can go watch a lecture for that subject. It''s more efficient to use the time you've saved to write essays and answer MBE questions. You can learn a lot of law just by doing that.

Ironically enough, the lectures are one of the things I genuinely enjoy about BARBRI (with the exception of the wills & trusts lectures). I'm several years removed from law school and I generally find the lectures and hypotheticals to be helpful in refreshing my recollection of the various subjects.

Yeah for sure. I'm not a big fan of lectures, but you should use them to the extent they help. Just don't obsess over them in favor of doing the things that will improve your work.

Definitely feeling like a tool collector at this point. Need to find some way to start internalizing knowledge with five weeks to go.

[boblawlawblog]

I'm pretty worried about this exam. I passed the Texas bar exam last July, but I switched from Themis to Barbri at my firm's recommendation. I don't really like Barbri all that much, but it's obviously too late now.

A couple of questions: First, the essay section is where I am the strongest. However, the Cal Bar essay section looks horrific-- 5 essays over a possibility of 14+ topics?! insanity. Any suggestions on mastery of these essays? Also, I know there is an awful lot of talk about "Essay Predictions"... it would be GREAT to have some HERO compile/post what last July/Feb essay topics have been and what some strong possibilities for this July will be. I'd do it myself but I'm trying to study!

Second, My MBE ability is at 48% at this point. It was pretty consistently that last year for the TexBar. I never really improved it despite practicing. I've purchased Adaptibar for this go round, and while it's a lot of fun to use, I don't really feel like I'm getting better at the material. Any suggestions on using it to improve? Did anyone notice a marked improvement over time? I read all the Q's, Answers, Wrong Answers before moving on.

Also, is the July easier to pass than Feb? All this horrific talk about low pass rates scares me. I did well at a T-14 school, I've already passed the TexBar, so I'm not really worried about my own personal ability. I'm worried about curves, questions, graders, etc. Any hope for more leniency given all this negative publicity in Feb?

[a male human]

> expecting mercy from the CA State Bar

Predictions: PR is a good one to keep in mind. That's a strong possibility. Everything else is fair game. They will shit out the least expected topics on you. People like Dr. Saccuzzo's predictions, but I like mine better:

[+] Spoiler

Business Associations (agency, partnerships, corporations)
Civil Procedure (federal and/or CA)
Community Property
Constitutional Law
Contracts
Criminal Law
Criminal Procedure
Evidence (federal and/or CA)
Professional Responsibility (ABA and/or CA)
Real Property (maybe even the stuff they updated for the MBE last July)
Remedies
Torts
Wills & Trusts
Crossover of any of the above

MBE: Spend as much time reviewing and understanding the explanations as time spent doing the problems. Otherwise you're just getting off the scale and getting right back on. Doing problems is just measuring your current knowledge and skill. You improve by using that as feedback.

July is not necessarily easier to pass than Feb. July simply has better performance.

[scard]

Adaptibar Criminal Law Question:

Basically in one question the answer is: "Cannot be convicted of arson because he burned the dwelling with the consent of the owner."

Yet, in another question the reasoning was: "Homeowner is guilty of felony murder with the underlying felony being arson because he allowed his friend to burn down the building for insurance money."

Please help! I don't understand how it's arson in ONE instance and not in the other.

I think I know of the questions you are asking about... in one of the questions, they provide their arson statute and it probably contains some extra verbiage beyond our common law definition.

they tend to do that.. they'll add "dwelling of another" into it and see if you think they can be convicted of arson for burning their own house. they will also add burglary in there where only intent to commit arson is required even though he doesn't meet the definition of arson. yet the intent element is already satisfied before he even burns anything down. so keep an eye out for subtle differences like that

[xonimi]

I'm really starting to feel like I won't pass this exam. I've done 340 MBE questions on Adaptibar and I'm at 58%. I go over the explanations but it's clearly not helping me improve my score. I'm also getting very overwhelmed by all the rules I need to learn/memorize. I don't know what to focus on or how to juggle all of this.