2018 February CA Bar Forum

[freewing]

I am a new york admitted attorney and moved to california recently. I only need to take the essay and PT exam, and chose not to take the MBE. this is my second time try to take the exam. Now there is only one month left. I am reviewing all essays posted on bar admission website from 2012 to 2017. I also want to finish reviewing once again the outline of all subjects. I wonder if I should also find time to do MBE simulated exam because I feel MBE covers most testing points that essay may possibly test as well. Time is limited, and it seems I cannot finish all my objectives (reviewing outline and all essays from 2012 to 2017 once again and do MBE). I would appreciate some advice re how to prioritize study assignments to be most efficient during the last month. I still feel I should do more MBE although I am not tested on that.

If you are not taking the MBE I think it would be a waste of time for you to review MBE questions. You might want to expand beyond the posted questions on the admission website, as they are very limited. I've been using BarEssays.com which has thousands of graded examples going back more than a decade. My advice to you is to practice essays every day - as much as possible and then compare your practice essays to real examples that score 65+. Good luck!

How many essays have you just reviewed vs. outlined in writing vs. actually write out the full essays? I am about to finish reviewing (review only) 2012 to 2017 essays (I reviewed the model answer with baressays) and have outlined 8 essays per subject with barbri. Shall I use the one month to review the essays I have been working on once again to make sure I memorize them or shall I try to do more essays from 2011 and earlier? Also need time for PT and review outlines. Thank you very much for your advice!

[Snowflake1]

I am a new york admitted attorney and moved to california recently. I only need to take the essay and PT exam, and chose not to take the MBE. this is my second time try to take the exam. Now there is only one month left. I am reviewing all essays posted on bar admission website from 2012 to 2017. I also want to finish reviewing once again the outline of all subjects. I wonder if I should also find time to do MBE simulated exam because I feel MBE covers most testing points that essay may possibly test as well. Time is limited, and it seems I cannot finish all my objectives (reviewing outline and all essays from 2012 to 2017 once again and do MBE). I would appreciate some advice re how to prioritize study assignments to be most efficient during the last month. I still feel I should do more MBE although I am not tested on that.

If you are not taking the MBE I think it would be a waste of time for you to review MBE questions. You might want to expand beyond the posted questions on the admission website, as they are very limited. I've been using BarEssays.com which has thousands of graded examples going back more than a decade. My advice to you is to practice essays every day - as much as possible and then compare your practice essays to real examples that score 65+. Good luck!

How many essays have you just reviewed vs. outlined in writing vs. actually write out the full essays? I am about to finish reviewing (review only) 2012 to 2017 essays (I reviewed the model answer with baressays) and have outlined 8 essays per subject with barbri. Shall I use the one month to review the essays I have been working on once again to make sure I memorize them or shall I try to do more essays from 2011 and earlier? Also need time for PT and review outlines. Thank you very much for your advice!

Some days I will write out one full essay and outline 2-3 essays and other days I will outline 3-4 essays. I am also studying for the MBE. I would not only use the model answers on baressays.com but also look at the real ones that score 65+. There is a difference from models in analysis and you will see what issues are important for every type of essay to get a high score and which issues you can miss.

[freewing]

I am a new york admitted attorney and moved to california recently. I only need to take the essay and PT exam, and chose not to take the MBE. this is my second time try to take the exam. Now there is only one month left. I am reviewing all essays posted on bar admission website from 2012 to 2017. I also want to finish reviewing once again the outline of all subjects. I wonder if I should also find time to do MBE simulated exam because I feel MBE covers most testing points that essay may possibly test as well. Time is limited, and it seems I cannot finish all my objectives (reviewing outline and all essays from 2012 to 2017 once again and do MBE). I would appreciate some advice re how to prioritize study assignments to be most efficient during the last month. I still feel I should do more MBE although I am not tested on that.

If you are not taking the MBE I think it would be a waste of time for you to review MBE questions. You might want to expand beyond the posted questions on the admission website, as they are very limited. I've been using BarEssays.com which has thousands of graded examples going back more than a decade. My advice to you is to practice essays every day - as much as possible and then compare your practice essays to real examples that score 65+. Good luck!

How many essays have you just reviewed vs. outlined in writing vs. actually write out the full essays? I am about to finish reviewing (review only) 2012 to 2017 essays (I reviewed the model answer with baressays) and have outlined 8 essays per subject with barbri. Shall I use the one month to review the essays I have been working on once again to make sure I memorize them or shall I try to do more essays from 2011 and earlier? Also need time for PT and review outlines. Thank you very much for your advice!

Some days I will write out one full essay and outline 2-3 essays and other days I will outline 3-4 essays. I am also studying for the MBE. I would not only use the model answers on baressays.com but also look at the real ones that score 65+. There is a difference from models in analysis and you will see what issues are important for every type of essay to get a high score and which issues you can miss.

my concern with baressays model answer is it is too long. it seems impossible to finish an essay within an hour to cover all issues from the model answer. I reviewed around 150 essays (barbri and baressays), but i have not found many repetative facts patterns. It seems every essay in the same subject has different facts patterns. Do you have the same feeling? or maybe it is because I still have not reviewed enough essays to find similar facts patterns? I am still doing a some MBE although I am not tested on that, I use MBE to refresh my memories on the knowledge points. Thank you for your advice to review essays score both 65+ and below to find which issues are necessary and which ones can be missing. Good suggestion.

[fredofred]

The one-timers calculator seems way off.

[AntiHumanJr]

Hello hello,

Just checking in as a second time taker for the Feb. bar.

Scores rounded to the nearest number
Scaled Written: 1465
Scaled MBE: 1280 Worst areas (I swear, this'll make anyone here feel better);

• Torts 3.5

• Evidence 9.9

single digits y'all. I basically got every single of those questions wrong - fucking hell.


Guess what I'm going to be working on the next few months.

I used Kaplan my first time because they sold themselves as solid MBE preppers. I didn't actually use them much for essays. Did much better on essays, as scaled score shows so obviously, SO SCREW YOU Kaplan . I acutely remember feeling waves of panic during the MBE day. I felt like the questions were nothing like Kaplan's and they were much harder. So this time, I am using Adaptibar and Emmanuels. Any other recommendations for MBE questions? I still have Kaplan's MBE question book... i guess i'll go through that too .

I read the previous post predicting that the MBE writers are working around the supplements out there... hope I'll somehow get this MBE magic in the bag and not be killed [again] next round. Please let Adaptibar help.

Ugh.

alright.

LET'S DO THIS SHIIIIIT.

A word of advice on Adaptibar. Actually, several words. I did okay on the essays and PT. By quick math, I averaged about 64.3. But I fucking bombed the MBE.

First, by the time bar prep ended, I'd racked up over 2,000 questions on Adaptibar. My average was in the mid-70%. I felt good. However, I think what happened was:

1. I inadvertently did quantity over quality. Rather than go to a more extensive explanation in a book (e.g. Barbri, Kaplan), what I would do is write the rule I missed on a notecard, learn it, and then move on. I worked my ass off doing that. The problem is, I learned the rules in isolation rather than in a more comprehensive manner than you'll find in say an Emmanuel or Barbri book. And it really fucked me on the MBE. To be clear, the answer explanations on Adaptibar are NOT ENOUGH.

2. By doing almost all of my MBE practice on a computer screen, when it came to doing them on paper, it ended up throwing me. I had actually thought about this and didn't think it would be a problem, but the questions on exam day looked a lot longer than what was on Adaptibar. That's not really the case (although I think they throw in some serious monsters on the MBE that Adaptibar doesn't have), but it looked like it when I taking the test.

3. The Timer: don't worry about time too much. Yeah, Adaptibar tells you what your time was, but by the end, my time per question was down in the 1:10 range or so. That should've told me I wasn't reading carefully. Instead, I took it to mean that I was kicking ass on time. Wrong. And sure enough, I finished both section well before most people in the room.

4. Repeat Questions: repeats started showing up well before they should have, and the ones that do repeat tend to show up again and again. I don't know if it's a glitch in the system, but by the 3rd time you see the same question and can answer it without having to read it, it shouldn't keep showing up. But it does.

Let me be clear: I don't blame Adaptibar for me failing the bar. It was how I used it that led to me failing.

I recommend Adaptibar as a supplement, but not as a primary source of study for the MBE. What I saw on the second day of the bar was so unfamiliar looking that it caused me a lot of anxiety--and that was nothing but bad. I have never experienced serious text anxiety and I didn't experience it on Day 1, which I thought was going to be my biggest obstacle. But on Day 2, holy crap.

The fact is, that if I would've scored on the MBE what I had scored with Adaptibar, I would've passed. But that's not what happened. Not even close. So many of my results were significantly less than chance that literally a chimpanzee with a crayon could have scored better.

So go ahead and use Adaptibar, but beware of how you're using it. Because of the way I used it, I developed a false sense of security and things turned out really bad.

Best of luck.

Holy cow, I thought I was on a good track with Adaptibar, but this is absolutely terrifying. For those that used Adaptibar, what was your average and what was your final MBE score? Is it possible to score at least a 1360 using the program?

[scard]

Guys! I'm freaking out!

yesterday I went to the dmv to get a REALID and the DMV punched a hole in my DL.

Now I'm freaking out thinking what if the new DL doesn't come in the mail in time. Will the Bar allow me to take the exam if my ID has a hole punched in it.

my passport is expired.

anyone go through this before?

[YuckNotTheBar]

Guys! I'm freaking out!

yesterday I went to the dmv to get a REALID and the DMV punched a hole in my DL.

Now I'm freaking out thinking what if the new DL doesn't come in the mail in time. Will the Bar allow me to take the exam if my ID has a hole punched in it.

my passport is expired.

anyone go through this before?

You should call or email the Admissions office. I have found them to be very responsive & helpful. I am sure it will be fine.
(FWIW my husband got his inside of 2 weeks last month, so it probably won't even be a problem)

[Snowflake1]

Guys! I'm freaking out!

yesterday I went to the dmv to get a REALID and the DMV punched a hole in my DL.

Now I'm freaking out thinking what if the new DL doesn't come in the mail in time. Will the Bar allow me to take the exam if my ID has a hole punched in it.

my passport is expired.

anyone go through this before?

Worst case scenario bring both the DL and the expired passport and it would be crazy if they didn't let you in.

If you are REALLY freaking out you could go to a travel agency to get an expedited passport renewal. They can get passports in as little as 2 days.

[Pema]

Hello hello,

Just checking in as a second time taker for the Feb. bar.

Scores rounded to the nearest number
Scaled Written: 1465
Scaled MBE: 1280 Worst areas (I swear, this'll make anyone here feel better);

• Torts 3.5

• Evidence 9.9

single digits y'all. I basically got every single of those questions wrong - fucking hell.


Guess what I'm going to be working on the next few months.

I used Kaplan my first time because they sold themselves as solid MBE preppers. I didn't actually use them much for essays. Did much better on essays, as scaled score shows so obviously, SO SCREW YOU Kaplan . I acutely remember feeling waves of panic during the MBE day. I felt like the questions were nothing like Kaplan's and they were much harder. So this time, I am using Adaptibar and Emmanuels. Any other recommendations for MBE questions? I still have Kaplan's MBE question book... i guess i'll go through that too .

I read the previous post predicting that the MBE writers are working around the supplements out there... hope I'll somehow get this MBE magic in the bag and not be killed [again] next round. Please let Adaptibar help.

Ugh.

alright.

LET'S DO THIS SHIIIIIT.

A word of advice on Adaptibar. Actually, several words. I did okay on the essays and PT. By quick math, I averaged about 64.3. But I fucking bombed the MBE.

First, by the time bar prep ended, I'd racked up over 2,000 questions on Adaptibar. My average was in the mid-70%. I felt good. However, I think what happened was:

1. I inadvertently did quantity over quality. Rather than go to a more extensive explanation in a book (e.g. Barbri, Kaplan), what I would do is write the rule I missed on a notecard, learn it, and then move on. I worked my ass off doing that. The problem is, I learned the rules in isolation rather than in a more comprehensive manner than you'll find in say an Emmanuel or Barbri book. And it really fucked me on the MBE. To be clear, the answer explanations on Adaptibar are NOT ENOUGH.

2. By doing almost all of my MBE practice on a computer screen, when it came to doing them on paper, it ended up throwing me. I had actually thought about this and didn't think it would be a problem, but the questions on exam day looked a lot longer than what was on Adaptibar. That's not really the case (although I think they throw in some serious monsters on the MBE that Adaptibar doesn't have), but it looked like it when I taking the test.

3. The Timer: don't worry about time too much. Yeah, Adaptibar tells you what your time was, but by the end, my time per question was down in the 1:10 range or so. That should've told me I wasn't reading carefully. Instead, I took it to mean that I was kicking ass on time. Wrong. And sure enough, I finished both section well before most people in the room.

4. Repeat Questions: repeats started showing up well before they should have, and the ones that do repeat tend to show up again and again. I don't know if it's a glitch in the system, but by the 3rd time you see the same question and can answer it without having to read it, it shouldn't keep showing up. But it does.

Let me be clear: I don't blame Adaptibar for me failing the bar. It was how I used it that led to me failing.

I recommend Adaptibar as a supplement, but not as a primary source of study for the MBE. What I saw on the second day of the bar was so unfamiliar looking that it caused me a lot of anxiety--and that was nothing but bad. I have never experienced serious text anxiety and I didn't experience it on Day 1, which I thought was going to be my biggest obstacle. But on Day 2, holy crap.

The fact is, that if I would've scored on the MBE what I had scored with Adaptibar, I would've passed. But that's not what happened. Not even close. So many of my results were significantly less than chance that literally a chimpanzee with a crayon could have scored better.

So go ahead and use Adaptibar, but beware of how you're using it. Because of the way I used it, I developed a false sense of security and things turned out really bad.

Best of luck.

Holy cow, I thought I was on a good track with Adaptibar, but this is absolutely terrifying. For those that used Adaptibar, what was your average and what was your final MBE score? Is it possible to score at least a 1360 using the program?

What is a 1360 as a raw MBE score?

[bacillusanthracis]

Holy cow, I thought I was on a good track with Adaptibar, but this is absolutely terrifying. For those that used Adaptibar, what was your average and what was your final MBE score? Is it possible to score at least a 1360 using the program?

I don't remember my final MBE score (nor do I care to go get it), but it was really awful. The only thing I scored well in (weirdly) was civ pro (69.9%). I think that's because the subject hasn't been tested for very long, so the MBE writers haven't yet figured out how to make the questions super difficult.

Again, I was doing well on Adaptibar. It's as if the Bar Gods heard me say, "If I can get through Day 1 okay, I'm gonna pass the bar" and decided it would be all too hilarious to hand me the most miserable fail on any test I've ever taken.

It is counter-intuitive to think that using e.g. Barbri questions would be more effective than using actual past bar questions, but that's what happened to me. And keep that in mind: this was my experience, not anyone else's. Lots of people have sworn by Adaptibar and have done well on the MBE with it.

Adaptibar this time around for me has been used as an end of the day supplement. It's the last thing I do when my brain is fried and I just can't bare to read/write another rule. I use it to practice going through elements--to practice staying in the habits of thinking through problems. I use it to work on my weakest subjects. Usually around 20 or so.

Like I said before in my long post about Adaptibar, I used it incorrectly the first time around (quantity over quality) and that's 100% on me. Have a good go-to source and don't use Adaptibar's answer explanations (they're ass).

Just an FYI: I'm still killing Adaptibar. Less than mid 70% is a disappointment. On Barbri, I'm stoked with low 60%.

[fredofred]

I know this is a silly question but those of you who have taken other exams: how many times have you gotten one letter in a row. i remember taking the ny exam and on the ny multiple choice getting like 5 c's!

[a male human]

I know this is a silly question but those of you who have taken other exams: how many times have you gotten one letter in a row. i remember taking the ny exam and on the ny multiple choice getting like 5 c's!

On the 2014 February MBE, at least one other person and I have put 7 Ds in a row.

[bacillusanthracis]

I know this is a silly question but those of you who have taken other exams: how many times have you gotten one letter in a row. i remember taking the ny exam and on the ny multiple choice getting like 5 c's!

It's actually common on the MBE. They do it on purpose--and it's really unnerving. Okay, I don't know for a fact they do it on purpose, but Barbri does it in their practice materials too, which looks like an attempt to mimic the MBE as closely as possible.

One has to come up with their own best course of action for when that happens. Mine has been to just leave it alone because for me, changing answers is usually the wrong thing to do.

And I suppose that given 200 questions, even a completely random configuration will come up with one or two sections where "c" (or whatever letter) will be the right answer 5 times in a row.

[goodude91]

I know this is a silly question but those of you who have taken other exams: how many times have you gotten one letter in a row. i remember taking the ny exam and on the ny multiple choice getting like 5 c's!

I passed July 17 and I remember distinctly putting down I think it was "A" 6 straight times, and then again for 3 out of the next 4. I spent a little extra time at the end going over those 10 questions slowly, and while I may not have gotten them all right, "A" was definitely right for at least 7 of those 9. So it happens.

[fredofred]

does anyone know of a better calculator than one-timers?

also is february easier?

[a male human]

does anyone know of a better calculator than one-timers?

also is february easier?

Not necessarily easier. People would try to take February if it were. But there are way fewer people taking February.

If you look at the pass rates only, those pass rates might suggest that February is actually harder (ignoring the other potential factors for the lower pass rates, such as February being more concentrated with repeaters and not many people from higher-ranked schools).

In any case, your scores are scaled such that difficulty is accounted for.

[scard]

in case ashine is wondering,

I called the state bar, and they said it didn't matter if my DL has a hole in it.

[lostinca]

Sorry for what might be a repetitive question,

So does anyone have a list of the most likely MEE subjects that will be tested. Been looking around and cant seem to find an answer. As far studying goes, are you guys solely focusing on those predicted subjects or diving a bit into each single subject and hoping that predictions are correct? And would you recommend focusing your essay preparations more on the mbe subjects, or the strictly essay subjects?

Sorry i began studying late, and to this point have maybe one done essay per subject. Been really focusing on getting my mbe scores up, and just now diving into the essay portions.


Thanks

[a male human]

Sorry for what might be a repetitive question,

So does anyone have a list of the most likely MEE subjects that will be tested. Been looking around and cant seem to find an answer. As far studying goes, are you guys solely focusing on those predicted subjects or diving a bit into each single subject and hoping that predictions are correct? And would you recommend focusing your essay preparations more on the mbe subjects, or the strictly essay subjects?

Sorry i began studying late, and to this point have maybe one done essay per subject. Been really focusing on getting my mbe scores up, and just now diving into the essay portions.


Thanks

Can you clarify what you mean by MEE (CA does not test MEE)? Do you mean MBE? Or the essay-only subjects?

I would hope that people are not going all in on predicted subjects. That's desperate gambling, not a strategy. Dr. Saccuzzo's predictions seem to be held in decent regard, although I don't trust any predictions. If you overlap everyone's predictions, you end up studying for all the subjects anyway.

If you're out of time and need to narrow down your choices, it would probably be better to focus more on MBE subjects for essays since at least 2-3 will show up (if it's similar to the 3-day bar). At least read some answers for other subjects so that you're not completely lost. If you've been spending all this time on the MBE, hopefully you score well enough on the MBE so that your essays don't have to be the best.

[lostinca]

Sorry for what might be a repetitive question,

So does anyone have a list of the most likely MEE subjects that will be tested. Been looking around and cant seem to find an answer. As far studying goes, are you guys solely focusing on those predicted subjects or diving a bit into each single subject and hoping that predictions are correct? And would you recommend focusing your essay preparations more on the mbe subjects, or the strictly essay subjects?

Sorry i began studying late, and to this point have maybe one done essay per subject. Been really focusing on getting my mbe scores up, and just now diving into the essay portions.


Thanks

Can you clarify what you mean by MEE (CA does not test MEE)? Do you mean MBE? Or the essay-only subjects?

I would hope that people are not going all in on predicted subjects. That's desperate gambling, not a strategy. Dr. Saccuzzo's predictions seem to be held in decent regard, although I don't trust any predictions. If you overlap everyone's predictions, you end up studying for all the subjects anyway.

If you're out of time and need to narrow down your choices, it would probably be better to focus more on MBE subjects for essays since at least 2-3 will show up (if it's similar to the 3-day bar). At least read some answers for other subjects so that you're not completely lost. If you've been spending all this time on the MBE, hopefully you score well enough on the MBE so that your essays don't have to be the best.

My apologies yes i just meant the essay portion. Unfortunately my practice MBE was just shockingly low, so was so focused on improving there that im just now able to reach the essay subjects.

[Pema]

I've been looking at July 2017 PT answers. The memo asked for a persuasive letter. The responses are so varied its really amazing. I would think a letter looks like a letter regardless of content, no? About half the responses had huge bold wordy headings you would never see in a letter. The other half of responses were narratives with minimal headings (typical of a letter), and they scored higher. Why the disparity? Why the big headings in a letter? Is this unique to the Bar?

[LockBox]

I've been looking at July 2017 PT answers. The memo asked for a persuasive letter. The responses are so varied its really amazing. I would think a letter looks like a letter regardless of content, no? About half the responses had huge bold wordy headings you would never see in a letter. The other half of responses were narratives with minimal headings (typical of a letter), and they scored higher. Why the disparity? Why the big headings in a letter? Is this unique to the Bar?

Not to be crass, but no a letter is not a letter regardless of content. The whole point is to be persuasive. While you aren't clear as to where you are looking (i'm assuming it's baressays or something like that), my advice would be to look at the selected answers on the state bar page. While many here will advocate for clear headings, bolding specific items, my suggestion would be much broader - what do you think would/should happen in the real world when you write a letter?

A partner at my firm always sends my work back when the headings don't "say something." Look at the headings on the PT selected answers - they aren't facts. They are statements that are designed to persuade. You need to understand how an objective vs. a persuasive letter is different and you need to work on that pronto.

[Pema]

I've been looking at July 2017 PT answers. The memo asked for a persuasive letter. The responses are so varied its really amazing. I would think a letter looks like a letter regardless of content, no? About half the responses had huge bold wordy headings you would never see in a letter. The other half of responses were narratives with minimal headings (typical of a letter), and they scored higher. Why the disparity? Why the big headings in a letter? Is this unique to the Bar?

Not to be crass, but no a letter is not a letter regardless of content. The whole point is to be persuasive. While you aren't clear as to where you are looking (i'm assuming it's baressays or something like that), my advice would be to look at the selected answers on the state bar page. While many here will advocate for clear headings, bolding specific items, my suggestion would be much broader - what do you think would/should happen in the real world when you write a letter?

A partner at my firm always sends my work back when the headings don't "say something." Look at the headings on the PT selected answers - they aren't facts. They are statements that are designed to persuade. You need to understand how an objective vs. a persuasive letter is different and you need to work on that pronto.

Yes - baressays. The headings or lack of threw me. When you see a persuasive narrative that nailed every issue and scored 80, but had no headings you wonder if headings are material. Thanks.

[bacillusanthracis]

I've been looking at July 2017 PT answers. The memo asked for a persuasive letter. The responses are so varied its really amazing. I would think a letter looks like a letter regardless of content, no? About half the responses had huge bold wordy headings you would never see in a letter. The other half of responses were narratives with minimal headings (typical of a letter), and they scored higher. Why the disparity? Why the big headings in a letter? Is this unique to the Bar?

I thought the directions were pretty poor, but aside from that, who really knows what they wanted/want?

It's incredibly subjective and can vary greatly from grader to grader.

Due to bombing the MBE, my written didn't really matter. But at least two of my classmates failed by 5 points or less. Both, got into re-read, and if they'd been graded by that second person who graded just one of their essays, they would've passed.

One grader may want big headings and downgrade/not give points to someone who doesn't include those headings. The next grader may not care at all as long as its well organized and contains all the right stuff.

So... I guess I have nothing helpful to offer.

[rayforoc]

Can anyone speak to whether its sufficient? I have it unused from July prep materials I never used. Haven't touched PT prep yet because Ive been hitting MBEs and Essays hard. I know this is foolish (esp. considering the first two attempts I scored 55s). I will begin incorporating PT prep tomorrow morning.

If anyone knows of any other PT prep worth my time this close then please share!