2017 February California Bar Exam Forum

[a male human]

Well.... This sucks.

July 2016 CA Bar Exam
Essay 1: 55
Essay 2: 60
Essay 3: 50
Essay 4: 55
Essay 5: 55
Essay 6: 55
PT-A: 50
PT-B: 60

Raw Written: 550.0
Scaled Written: 1255.2812
Scaled MBE: 1543
Total Scaled Score: 1355.9832

Bar Prep
Barbri - 98% completion
Adaptibar - Overall Average: 61.9% Questions Answered: 704 [All Users: 60.7% overall average Questions Answered: 616]
baressays.com - i reviewed essays that scored 65 and up.

My Dilemma
Most people I have talked to or read about seemed to have had low MBE and average essay/PT scores. My problem is the opposite. I had terrible essays and a strong MBE score. At this point I feel that I need to work on formatting my essays (maybe issue spotting as well), but I don't know the best course of action. Watching Barbri videos seems like a waste since I grasp the majority of the concepts. Does anyone have any input on what bar programs, tools, or tips may help me excel in February? I will throw money at any program that will help me pass (because i believe that 6 more months of "not being an attorney" is more expensive than any bar prep program out there).

Thanks!!!!!!!

Given your high MBE score, I think you know the law quite well! So that's a great start (and a relief if you have to retake it in July since the MBE will take up half your score, not just 35%).

Although you "know" the law, you must still be able to generate words that prove it. Your essay scores were all within 50-60 points, which is pretty consistent. So you likely need to improve (1) IRACing/presentation and (2) identifying and presenting the relevant issues.

Quick suggestions that have worked for me and others:
- Don't watch Barbri lectures anymore
- Look at essays that scored lower than 65 on BarEssays too!
- Once you get the application part down for each subject (since each subject has its own approach), focus on identifying issues and reciting good rules
- I had this problem too and was one of the tweaks that made a major difference: Don't rely on "spotting" issues out of thin air. Remember that the bar is a closed universe, and you don't need to be creative with it. You only need to go through the finite list of issues and subissues that are available (like a word bank). Hence, rather than randomly spotting issues (yuck), you are checking for issues systematically
- Master the fundamentals of IRAC: IRACing is literally all you do on the bar, whether you're answering MBE questions, doing essays, or setting up PTs. Imagine if you improved this skill so that you got 5 more points on each essay/PT. You probably would have passed!

Basically, issues are seeds you must plant so that IRACs (your "units" of arguments) sprout from them. If you fail to identify the correct issues, you're toast because you will get ZERO credit for unidentified issues. You can at least get partial credit for incomplete rules/application. Get the the issues and subissues right, and the rest will come out on its own (relatively) and you'll rack up points like you just won the jackpot

[Slickrick90]

This may be a stupid question. In order to take the bar for a current attorney admitted in a different state, you have to submit certificates of good standing ... etc. from your school and jurisdictions that you are already admitted.

If you retake, do you have to order certificates all over again and redo the whole process?

Lastly do you think moving to a 2 day exam in July 2017 will shorten the waiting period for exam results?

Thanks,

[stromileswift]

Long time viewer, first time posting.

Q1: 65 60 62.5
Q2: 55 60 57.5
Q3:65 55 60
Q4:60 55 57.5
Q5:55 55 55
Q6:65 60 57.5
PTA:55 50 52.5
PTB:55 60 57.5

MBE: 1515
Raw Written: 575
Total: 1401.67

I think I missed it by 10 points after my first read, and then it went downhill from there once I got my second read. Second reader deducted 20 points from the essays. Weird part is the first and third question which I though I bombed, I received 65s from the first grader.

Doing Adaptibar now and reading my own outlines. Good luck to all.

[rcharter1978]

Long time viewer, first time posting.

Q1: 65 60 62.5
Q2: 55 60 57.5
Q3:65 55 60
Q4:60 55 57.5
Q5:55 55 55
Q6:65 60 57.5
PTA:55 50 52.5
PTB:55 60 57.5

MBE: 1515
Raw Written: 575
Total: 1401.67

I think I missed it by 10 points after my first read, and then it went downhill from there once I got my second read. Second reader deducted 20 points from the essays. Weird part is the first and third question which I though I bombed, I received 65s from the first grader.

Doing Adaptibar now and reading my own outlines. Good luck to all.

Your MBE was pretty great, so do you think you need a lot of adaptibar?

I think you should really give the PTs some attention. If you could squeeze out some extra points there you'll be golden.

[Sauer420]

I applied to take the Cal Bar in October and my Eligibility Status still states "pending". I don't want to bother the Cal Bar reps, but anyone know if this is normal? This will be my first time taking the Cal Bar (took the UBE this past summer). I attended an out-of-state law school, but I emailed my school months ago and I was given assurance they would send out the required documents. At what point should I contact California to make sure they received everything they need?

[AspiringCALawyer]

This may be a stupid question. In order to take the bar for a current attorney admitted in a different state, you have to submit certificates of good standing ... etc. from your school and jurisdictions that you are already admitted.

If you retake, do you have to order certificates all over again and redo the whole process?

Lastly do you think moving to a 2 day exam in July 2017 will shorten the waiting period for exam results?

Thanks,

COGS are valid for six months. For instance, when I registered for Feb. 2016 bar, my COGS were dated around November 2015. When I found out I didn't pass in May 2016 and had to register for the July 2016 exam, I had to reorder my COGS. So, depending on the dates of your COGS, you may have to reorder.

Regarding shorter wait time with 2-day exam, I doubt it.

[chicoalto0649]

Still on the fence on whether I want to retake in Feb or wait till July. My MBE from July was 1550, however I completely bombed a PR question and got a 55/60 on my PTs (total scaled score was 1398). Been slow to brush up on the material for February and wondering if I still have enough time. I'm currently enjoying decent/stable employment and they were cool with me taking time off in July to take the CBX. I know the thought of a 50/50 July CBX is tempting, however they could make the essays/pt absolute hell.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[rcharter1978]

Still on the fence on whether I want to retake in Feb or wait till July. My MBE from July was 1550, however I completely bombed a PR question and got a 55/60 on my PTs (total scaled score was 1398). Been slow to brush up on the material for February and wondering if I still have enough time. I'm currently enjoying decent/stable employment and they were cool with me taking time off in July to take the CBX. I know the thought of a 50/50 July CBX is tempting, however they could make the essays/pt absolute hell.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Take in July. A 90 minute PT seems more likely to mirror the UBE, which is to say I think it will be easier and less in depth than a 3 hour PT.

The essays should be about the same because you're given the same hour for each, right?

[chili_davis]

...

[LockBox]

6 full weeks left. It goes without saying, if you haven't already written 40+ essays, you need to get on it. I also believe that you should have done over 1,000 MBE's by this point and written several PT's. Obviously everyone's mileage will vary, but for those who haven't done enough yet my question is why not? It's not easy to stare at a blank page and get ready to write, but you'll have to do it on the bar - better to fail today, rather than in May. Keep working.

[ur_hero]

The correct answer is bolded below. However, I'm not quite following the logic. Thoughts?

The owner of Blackacre, a single-family residence, conveyed a life estate in Blackacre to a landlord fifteen years ago.
Fourteen years ago, the landlord, who had taken possession of Blackacre, leased Blackacre to a tenant for a term of 15 years at the monthly rent of $500.
Eleven years ago, the landlord died intestate leaving her son as her sole heir.
The tenant regularly paid rent to the landlord and, after the landlord's death, to the son until last month.
The period in which to acquire title by adverse possession in the jurisdiction is 10 years.
In an appropriate action, the tenant, the original owner, and the son each asserted ownership of Blackacre.
The court should hold that title in fee simple is in

A. the original owner, because the owner held a reversion and the landlord has died.
B. the son, because the landlord asserted a claim adverse to the owner when the landlord executed a lease to the tenant.
C. the son, because the tenant's occupation was attributable to the son, and the landlord died 11 years ago.
D. the tenant, because of the tenant's physical occupancy and because the tenant's term ended with the landlord's death.

[stromileswift]

The correct answer is bolded below. However, I'm not quite following the logic. Thoughts?

The owner of Blackacre, a single-family residence, conveyed a life estate in Blackacre to a landlord fifteen years ago.
Fourteen years ago, the landlord, who had taken possession of Blackacre, leased Blackacre to a tenant for a term of 15 years at the monthly rent of $500.
Eleven years ago, the landlord died intestate leaving her son as her sole heir.
The tenant regularly paid rent to the landlord and, after the landlord's death, to the son until last month.
The period in which to acquire title by adverse possession in the jurisdiction is 10 years.
In an appropriate action, the tenant, the original owner, and the son each asserted ownership of Blackacre.
The court should hold that title in fee simple is in

A. the original owner, because the owner held a reversion and the landlord has died.
B. the son, because the landlord asserted a claim adverse to the owner when the landlord executed a lease to the tenant.
C. the son, because the tenant's occupation was attributable to the son, and the landlord died 11 years ago.
D. the tenant, because of the tenant's physical occupancy and because the tenant's term ended with the landlord's death.

I believe the son would take by adverse possession. Once the father died his life estate was done yet the son continued to collect rent from the tenant for the remaining time. It was up to the owner to come in and eject the son once his father has passed away. The tenant can't take by adverse possession since he is being allowed to live there. He possessed the house by renting it out.

[ur_hero]

Ah, okay this all makes sense to me now. In hindsight, it seems pretty simple - I think my brain is just tired. Thanks!

The correct answer is bolded below. However, I'm not quite following the logic. Thoughts?

The owner of Blackacre, a single-family residence, conveyed a life estate in Blackacre to a landlord fifteen years ago.
Fourteen years ago, the landlord, who had taken possession of Blackacre, leased Blackacre to a tenant for a term of 15 years at the monthly rent of $500.
Eleven years ago, the landlord died intestate leaving her son as her sole heir.
The tenant regularly paid rent to the landlord and, after the landlord's death, to the son until last month.
The period in which to acquire title by adverse possession in the jurisdiction is 10 years.
In an appropriate action, the tenant, the original owner, and the son each asserted ownership of Blackacre.
The court should hold that title in fee simple is in

A. the original owner, because the owner held a reversion and the landlord has died.
B. the son, because the landlord asserted a claim adverse to the owner when the landlord executed a lease to the tenant.
C. the son, because the tenant's occupation was attributable to the son, and the landlord died 11 years ago.
D. the tenant, because of the tenant's physical occupancy and because the tenant's term ended with the landlord's death.

I believe the son would take by adverse possession. Once the father died his life estate was done yet the son continued to collect rent from the tenant for the remaining time. It was up to the owner to come in and eject the son once his father has passed away. The tenant can't take by adverse possession since he is being allowed to live there. He possessed the house by renting it out.

[6lehderjets]

Using old barbri materials that don't go over prop 8 - so can someone explain what prop 8's significance is for criminal cases?

[LockBox]

Using old barbri materials that don't go over prop 8 - so can someone explain what prop 8's significance is for criminal cases?

Prop 8 was passed in 1982 apparently - how old are your Barbri materials?

[rcharter1978]

Using old barbri materials that don't go over prop 8 - so can someone explain what prop 8's significance is for criminal cases?

Prop 8 was passed in 1982 apparently - how old are your Barbri materials?

Yeah 6lehderjets, Prop 8 may not be your only problem.

I can't remember all of prop 8, but these sites seem pretty okay

https://quizlet.com/8356470/california- ... ash-cards/
http://www.barexammind.com/wp-content/u ... utline.pdf

[6lehderjets]

Got it figured out. Thanks guys.

Anyone have a discount code for adaptibar they would be willing to share? I would be very thankful.

[squiggle]

Got it figured out. Thanks guys.

Anyone have a discount code for adaptibar they would be willing to share? I would be very thankful.

I sent you a PM. If anyone else needs an AdaptiBar discount code, let me know!

[optimistic_owl]

I have a question about pulling the legal rules in the PTs. My question/concern boils down to this: Can we recite the rule statements verbatim from the cases/library without using quotes? I'm currently using Themis, and I've noticed that their model answer always cite the rules word-for-word without even using quotes. (At the end of the paragraph, the answer would then cite to the correct case/statute.) I feel like this is bordering on plagiarism, and would be down-graded by the readers.

However, I realize that I spend precious minutes trying to write out the rule statements and/or make them flow using quotations. BUT, perhaps I am doing it all wrong. Can I really just copy an entire rule statement (even if it's 2-3 sentences, and with many factors) word-for-word -- or sometimes insert a "however" or "additionally," as Themis does -- without using quotes??

This would make life seeming so much easier on the PTs and save me a lot of time and headache

[a male human]

I have a question about pulling the legal rules in the PTs. My question/concern boils down to this: Can we recite the rule statements verbatim from the cases/library without using quotes? I'm currently using Themis, and I've noticed that their model answer always cite the rules word-for-word without even using quotes. (At the end of the paragraph, the answer would then cite to the correct case/statute.) I feel like this is bordering on plagiarism, and would be down-graded by the readers.

However, I realize that I spend precious minutes trying to write out the rule statements and/or make them flow using quotations. BUT, perhaps I am doing it all wrong. Can I really just copy an entire rule statement (even if it's 2-3 sentences, and with many factors) word-for-word -- or sometimes insert a "however" or "additionally," as Themis does -- without using quotes??

This would make life seeming so much easier on the PTs and save me a lot of time and headache

It's not going to be "plagiarism" since they gave you the fake cases to work with, but I would think using quotes would make the rule pop out and indicate that you got it from a case. Also, it really doesn't take much time (a few seconds?) to insert quotes. Graders are humans, too. Presentation counts, even if it's not explicitly worth X points. Help them make sense of your paper and they will have an easier time understanding it.

[LockBox]

I have a question about pulling the legal rules in the PTs. My question/concern boils down to this: Can we recite the rule statements verbatim from the cases/library without using quotes? I'm currently using Themis, and I've noticed that their model answer always cite the rules word-for-word without even using quotes. (At the end of the paragraph, the answer would then cite to the correct case/statute.) I feel like this is bordering on plagiarism, and would be down-graded by the readers.

However, I realize that I spend precious minutes trying to write out the rule statements and/or make them flow using quotations. BUT, perhaps I am doing it all wrong. Can I really just copy an entire rule statement (even if it's 2-3 sentences, and with many factors) word-for-word -- or sometimes insert a "however" or "additionally," as Themis does -- without using quotes??

This would make life seeming so much easier on the PTs and save me a lot of time and headache

It's not going to be "plagiarism" since they gave you the fake cases to work with, but I would think using quotes would make the rule pop out and indicate that you got it from a case. Also, it really doesn't take much time (a few seconds?) to insert quotes. Graders are humans, too. Presentation counts, even if it's not explicitly worth X points. Help them make sense of your paper and they will have an easier time understanding it.

I agree with this. My method was simply to cite the first name of the case after the rule. I think the point is to someone make sure that you're giving credit to the case - and not making it appear as if the rule is merely your opinion.

[optimistic_owl]

I'll agree that I am probably overthinking it. But I'd rather get this approach figured out beforehand so I can go into autopilot mode come test day.

It's not going to be "plagiarism" since they gave you the fake cases to work with, but I would think using quotes would make the rule pop out and indicate that you got it from a case. Also, it really doesn't take much time (a few seconds?) to insert quotes. Graders are humans, too. Presentation counts, even if it's not explicitly worth X points. Help them make sense of your paper and they will have an easier time understanding it.

I agree that the goal is to make the readers clearly understand what I'm presenting. I just feel weird using quotations when the rule is super long (e.g., a couple sentences and/or having numerous factors).

So you'd recommend something like...

[INSERT HEADING RE: RULE]

In [case name], the court ruled "... [insert rule verbatim... even if it's super long and more than one sentence]..."

A male human, I've read your how-to-do-PTs PDF -- and it's good! -- but this is one question that has continued to bother me. In particular, I'm concerned mostly with getting the structure right b/c I'm fairly sure that's where I lost a lot of points on the July test. And I haven't gotten much additional help on structuring/tips from the programs I have.

Perhaps I just need to look at more sample PT responses.

I agree with this. My method was simply to cite the first name of the case after the rule. I think the point is to someone make sure that you're giving credit to the case - and not making it appear as if the rule is merely your opinion.

This is the method I'm thinking about implementing

So then, your memo would look something like...

[INSERT HEADING RE: RULE]

[Insert rule verbatim with no quotes.] ([cite to case name])

(new paragraph) Analysis...

[a male human]

I'll agree that I am probably overthinking it. But I'd rather get this approach figured out beforehand so I can go into autopilot mode come test day.

It's not going to be "plagiarism" since they gave you the fake cases to work with, but I would think using quotes would make the rule pop out and indicate that you got it from a case. Also, it really doesn't take much time (a few seconds?) to insert quotes. Graders are humans, too. Presentation counts, even if it's not explicitly worth X points. Help them make sense of your paper and they will have an easier time understanding it.

I agree that the goal is to make the readers clearly understand what I'm presenting. I just feel weird using quotations when the rule is super long (e.g., a couple sentences and/or having numerous factors).

So you'd recommend something like...

[INSERT HEADING RE: RULE]

In [case name], the court ruled "... [insert rule verbatim... even if it's super long and more than one sentence]..."

A male human, I've read your how-to-do-PTs PDF -- and it's good! -- but this is one question that has continued to bother me. In particular, I'm concerned mostly with getting the structure right b/c I'm fairly sure that's where I lost a lot of points on the July test. And I haven't gotten much additional help on structuring/tips from the programs I have.

Perhaps I just need to look at more sample PT responses.

I agree with this. My method was simply to cite the first name of the case after the rule. I think the point is to someone make sure that you're giving credit to the case - and not making it appear as if the rule is merely your opinion.

This is the method I'm thinking about implementing

So then, your memo would look something like...

[INSERT HEADING RE: RULE]

[Insert rule verbatim with no quotes.] ([cite to case name])

(new paragraph) Analysis...

Oh excellent, thank you for reading it and glad it was at least somewhat helpful.

If you have a long rule passage, I'd simply break off into a new paragraph, like this...

In [case name], the court ruled:

BIG RULE PARAGRAPH (with or without quotes since it's clear now that this is the rule)

[Return to application or break off the big rule into parts, if needed]
RULE ELEMENT 1 mini-irac
RULE ELEMENT 2 mini-irac
...or...
APPLICATION

I would still wrap with quotes to indicate it's from elsewhere, not you. Like when the reader gets to the end of the paragraph, he'll see a closing quotation mark, which indicates that you're now talking in your voice.

Of course, you can modify to fit your needs and preferences. PTs tend to be long reads, so I'd assume that the grader will see the main points (headers) and skim through the rest (so you should still do it correctly in case they see what you wrote).

If this addresses your concerns, I'll incorporate this discussion in the next edition of the guide

[optimistic_owl]

Yeah, that looks good. Thanks for the insight.

[rcharter1978]

I have a question about pulling the legal rules in the PTs. My question/concern boils down to this: Can we recite the rule statements verbatim from the cases/library without using quotes? I'm currently using Themis, and I've noticed that their model answer always cite the rules word-for-word without even using quotes. (At the end of the paragraph, the answer would then cite to the correct case/statute.) I feel like this is bordering on plagiarism, and would be down-graded by the readers.

However, I realize that I spend precious minutes trying to write out the rule statements and/or make them flow using quotations. BUT, perhaps I am doing it all wrong. Can I really just copy an entire rule statement (even if it's 2-3 sentences, and with many factors) word-for-word -- or sometimes insert a "however" or "additionally," as Themis does -- without using quotes??

This would make life seeming so much easier on the PTs and save me a lot of time and headache

On my PT's I tended to re-state the rule in my own words, or I would synthesize a rule from the cases, in which case it was in my own words. I rarely copied directly from the case. If I did, I would use quotes though. But, as you said typing out an entire 3 lines of a rule may be a waste of time if you can simply restate it in your own words using one line.