Real MBE Scores Forum

[1down1togo]

So - anyone out there score lower on the real thing than they did on simulated?

This is my question too cause I got a 159 on simulated and I feel like there's no way in hell I beat it by 10-30 points like everyone seems to be doing.

[rkreymer]

So - anyone out there score lower on the real thing than they did on simulated?

This is my question too cause I got a 159 on simulated and I feel like there's no way in hell I beat it by 10-30 points like everyone seems to be doing.

For some reason, I doubt it's true for "everyone"

[blueapple]

So - anyone out there score lower on the real thing than they did on simulated?

This is my question too cause I got a 159 on simulated and I feel like there's no way in hell I beat it by 10-30 points like everyone seems to be doing.

Keep in mind the score you get on the real exam is scaled higher than the raw number of questions you got right. I think conventional wisdom is it's scaled up ~15 points from the raw score.

[outback]

Sorry in advance for the long post about my bar results and my experience through the bar. Reading through threads like these from earlier exam administrations have helped me gauge where I stood and provided some comfort. It helped even if there really might not have been a rhyme or reason to it. Now I feel I should do my part and contribute.


TL;DR if you don’t care to read a looooong description of my experience:

I took two bar exams this past July and passed both.

My scaled MBE score was a 157.

My written score for one of those exams, my primary bar, was a 140.6.

My BARBRI midterm was a 133.

Both my half day and refreshers were a 67/100.

-------------------------------------------------------

I took Barbri and "completed" a little over 80% of the course. However, I basically checked off a bunch of assignments on Barbri such as writing out fully essays (I mainly read them), and those reading assignments on the long outlines. I don’t think I opened up any of the long outlines — Looking back I wish I did because I could have probably remembered a lot of more obscure nuances that didn’t come up in the practice problems, which I also didn’t do a great deal of, discussed below. If I had to retake, I would have taken a week to study primarily the long outlines).

I focused primarily on the MBE, but towards the end of the program with like a week before the exam, I finally learned of the Barbri statistic counter on the homepage, and it showed me having done less than 1,000 questions (not including maybe a few problem sets I did on paper, and those uhm remedial questions through their StudySmart (?)-- maybe not called that but similar where you answer a short question and if you get it wrong they then try to ask it a different way). At this point I had no choice but to just hope that was enough. If you are reading this for bar prep advice… that is NOT enough.

I studied essays by reading all the model answers in the Barbri book. I wrote out a few to be graded, but I basically cheated by reading the model answer beforehand, and learning the rules, then typing it out and submitting it.

First day, Essays (MPT/MEE):

The first half of the first day consisted of the MPT. I’ve always enjoyed legal writing and did not feel like I struggled during the MPT. I thought my organization and use of the facts and law were correct, albeit probably not completely as afterwards I noticed there were some minor things I missed or that I might have been able to organize slightly better. However, as I have not even looked at an MPT before the morning of the first day, I felt like I did a good job surviving (I shit you not, that morning while sitting in my car having arrived early I looked at some sample MPT model answers for the first time and they were from like a few years ago in a different state).

For lunch I ate in the hotel bar and generally felt OK, watched some news and was pretty calm about whole exam — thinking I could do this.

The second half of the day consisted of the MEE. As soon as I read the first call of the first question I knew I was in trouble. It had asked about whether the company in question was a member-managed or manager-managed company. I don’t remember ever running across those terms before (they were in the long outline), and basically read the fact pattern and decided I couldn’t do it, and skipped it until later (and when later came, just guessed on that and then BS’d the remainder subparts as well). I also struggled with the torts question (liability of the doctor/supplement store/supplement producers), and the contracts question (third party incidental beneficiary…). I thought the Civ Pro essay was my best one, but I knew it was a softball and everybody would have done well on that so my grade might not have reflected upon it. I understood and properly identified the purchase money security interest (PMSI) on the Secured Transactions essay, but really made up a few laws I think on my analysis. I noticed the mentions of Miranda on the Evidence/Crim Pro(?) question, but made no mention of it on my actual response, which in hindsight I regret not doing. I’m still not sure if that was actually a Crim Pro question or not.

Basically, 5 out of the 6 essays I was not confident in, and I was expecting everyone to also be confident in the the 1 essay that I was confident in.

I walked out of the first day feeling not great, but was hopeful that it wasn’t my important bar state and that I had the MBE coming up tomorrow which I had actually studied for and was doing reasonably well on in practice.

Second Day - MBE: I had form 6 on the MBE. The first half of the MBE was the hardest exam I have ever taken in my life (that I’ve studied for anyway). I walked out of that exam room having barely remembered any questions and felt like my brain was congested (it didn’t help that I had trouble sleeping the night before). Even though I had never had any timing issues in the mock exams before, I had to rush the last 5 questions of the first half because I was running out of time.

I walked out that exam room probably pale, with zero desire to talk to anyone or smile. I think at one point my legs were shaking. I went to the same bar restaurant that I went to the day before, but could barely eat my food as I was absolutely shell shocked and thought I just completely bombed the first part, and inevitably the MBE altogether. It didn’t help that I saw a few friends who were upbeat and didn’t think it was so bad, so I thought I was simply outmatched on an otherwise easy exam (I didn’t know that forms were switched which could have been a possibility for the variance in difficulty). After food, before the second half began, I found a quiet corner and just sat there and stared off in silence.

The second half of the MBE was easier, but at that point anything could have been easier than what I just experienced so I’m not sure by how much it was really easier. I definitely didn’t think it was a cakewalk either, and by that point my head was straight up hurting.

I walked out of the exam room wondering if there was even a point in going to my essays on the third day (which I probably spent 20% of my time studying). It was that bad. At that point if someone offered me a 135 on the MBE I would have taken it. Offer me a 140 and I would’ve thought it was a dream come true. No way did I think I could have possibly scored above a 150. Zero chance.

I slept even less that night. If I had to guess, probably less than 30 minutes all together.

Third day - Essays in second bar state. Felt the best that day afterwards but knew I also probably made a mistake or two on each question… but still, after what I had just gone through the past two days I’ll take what I could get. After the exam, I figured if it was just going by that day, I probably passed… not by a lot, but I felt confident I did enough to at least put forth a passing effort.

However, I had zero confidence that I passed the bar exam. I felt terrible about the experience.

The aftermath of the bar was probably some of the worst times of my life. I’d go as far as saying it was even worse after the bar than it was before it. I went on a huge post-bar trip in August, but wasn’t close to 100% happiness because of the belief that I had failed.

September was not much better, and was probably even worse because I didn’t have any trips to distract me. My relationships with my parents, my girlfriend, my relatives all suffered during this time period because I was just not a pleasant person to be around. I might have had mild depression.

Then I found out I had passed both exams.

If I could have done it all over again:

1. I would have put EVERYTHING I got into bar prep to at least hope for a chance to feel better post-bar exam. I tried my best to enjoy bar prep, taking occasional weekends off even into late June early July. I was cursing myself for doing so after I took the bar exam. In hindsight if I had known that I put all I had into it, even if I walked out of there feeling like I bombed it I probably would have at least not felt the guilt afterwards.

2. I would have done more than 2,000 practice questions. As many have said, this gives you a much better chance of having come across familiar questions. I wasn’t aware of how little I had actually done until it was already late in the game.

3. Would have read the long outline and focused a lot on the nuances, which seemed to be all the MBE was testing.

4. Some people may learn from lectures, but throughout law school I’ve learned that I don’t really benefit from lectures. I put too much emphasis this go-around on the lectures and lecture notes (a lot of which I didn’t even go back and look at once I filled it in). On retake I would have skipped them all together. If I could go back in time, I would have maybe listened to them before bed or something, and simply view it as an ancillary study tool rather than a primary.

5. I had the Critical Pass and Lean Sheets. I didn’t spend that much time with either. I basically rewrote all of the critical pass flash cards onto a word document, and then barely used the cards afterwards. The Lean Sheets I also spent a negligible amount of time with. I probably would have gotten Adaptibar, the Kaplan MBE practice question book, and the Multistate Goat book instead or in addition to what I had.

6. My main gripe with Barbri is that I got too used to the way they asked their questions, and quite frankly I didn’t think it was similar to the writing style of the actual MBE, at all. I heard good things about the Adaptibar, Kaplan book, and Multistate Goat book, so I probably would have put more eggs in those baskets.

Thanks for reading. Not sure if I put this essay in the best location for visibility for future bar takers… but if you are anything like me you would have found this thread in years to come from how much you thought/panicked about the bar.

[1down1togo]

So you passed- but if you could do it again, you'd study more? I get that your life sucked post bar cause you thought you failed, but it seems like more your own nerousies. I mean- you passed. So clearly just doing barbri was enough.

[outback]

So you passed- but if you could do it again, you'd study more? I get that your life sucked post bar cause you thought you failed, but it seems like more your own nerousies. I mean- you passed. So clearly just doing barbri was enough.

No debate from me that I was being insane. You're right, with hindsight the best move was to just relax and trust the program and the statistics it was producing.

However, like many people I've seen post here, I couldn't shake the dreaded feeling of not doing enough (which, even though the end result justified the means, I honestly felt that I did not do as much as most people did, especially after realizing how many people did over 2,000 practice problems,etc). I wish I could go back to July 29th and slap myself silly for worrying, but at the time I thought the worrying was very well justified, and I might have been able to cut some of that down if I could have at least gotten rid of the guilt of feeling like I hadn't studied enough.

[1down1togo]

So you passed- but if you could do it again, you'd study more? I get that your life sucked post bar cause you thought you failed, but it seems like more your own nerousies. I mean- you passed. So clearly just doing barbri was enough.

No debate from me that I was being insane. You're right, with hindsight the best move was to just relax and trust the program and the statistics it was producing.

However, like many people I've seen post here, I couldn't shake the dreaded feeling of not doing enough (which, even though the end result justified the means, I honestly felt that I did not do as much as most people did, especially after realizing how many people did over 2,000 practice problems,etc). I wish I could go back to July 29th and slap myself silly for worrying, but at the time I thought the worrying was very well justified, and I might have been able to cut some of that down if I could have at least gotten rid of the guilt of feeling like I hadn't studied enough.

Makes sense. Thanks for your post. Very insightful.

[zoomzoom88]

110/200 on barbri midterm. 162.3 scaled mbe on July 2016.

From the midterm to the end of the program I did an additional 50 mbe a day and 40 adapti bar questions. For every question I got wrong I wrote out the black letter law and read that sheet ever night before I went to bed.

[lawstoodent]

So you passed- but if you could do it again, you'd study more? I get that your life sucked post bar cause you thought you failed, but it seems like more your own nerousies. I mean- you passed. So clearly just doing barbri was enough.

No debate from me that I was being insane. You're right, with hindsight the best move was to just relax and trust the program and the statistics it was producing.

However, like many people I've seen post here, I couldn't shake the dreaded feeling of not doing enough (which, even though the end result justified the means, I honestly felt that I did not do as much as most people did, especially after realizing how many people did over 2,000 practice problems,etc). I wish I could go back to July 29th and slap myself silly for worrying, but at the time I thought the worrying was very well justified, and I might have been able to cut some of that down if I could have at least gotten rid of the guilt of feeling like I hadn't studied enough.

Thanks for your long post. It made me feel a lot better.

[iliketurtles123]

I don't understand when people say "simulated"

If I was getting around 65% average on Themis' practice sets (not the real full day practice sets, but the 50-100 question sets), does that mean my simulated is 65% of 200, or 130?

[just_me]

I don't understand when people say "simulated"

If I was getting around 65% average on Themis' practice sets (not the real full day practice sets, but the 50-100 question sets), does that mean my simulated is 65% of 200, or 130?

In the case of Themis, your simulated score would be the score you got when you did the full day mock exam under test conditions.

[passx3]

I don't understand when people say "simulated"

If I was getting around 65% average on Themis' practice sets (not the real full day practice sets, but the 50-100 question sets), does that mean my simulated is 65% of 200, or 130?

For Kaplan there are two simulated MBE exams - full length, 200 question practice tests that are designed to be taken under test conditions (3 hours per 100 question half with an hour or so break in between).

[bsktbll28082]

Themis locked me out of my account (since bar prep is over I guess). Is there a way to get my scores so I can post them??

[squiggle]

Themis locked me out of my account (since bar prep is over I guess). Is there a way to get my scores so I can post them??

You could email their customer service dept, and see if they'll share your practice scores.

[Sgttpc]

Barbri Practive MBE: 127
Actual MBE: 138

Florida 141

[mvp99]

Barbri Practive MBE: 127
Actual MBE: 138

Florida 141

i don't understand this.. florida 141?

Also, this is the first disappointing mid term v. final score ive seen here....

[omar1]

Barbri Full length MBEish exam: 90s LOL
Actual Bar Exam: 145

[passx3]

Barbri Practive MBE: 127
Actual MBE: 138

Florida 141

i don't understand this.. florida 141?

Also, this is the first disappointing mid term v. final score ive seen here....

The Florida Bar Exam has two parts, Part A (aka "Florida") and Part B (aka "MBE"). Sgttpc apparently got a 138 on the MBE and a 141 on the Florida section.

To pass the Florida Bar you need an average score between the two sections of 136, and it looks like Sgttpc got an average score of 139.5 and passed.

[redtalun]

Took barbri

Barbri practice exam: 133/200
"Refresher": 63/100 (proceeded to freak out at this point)
Real MBE: 161.5
Passed Washington state

Notes on the real MBE: Finished both AM and PM sessions ~20-30 minutes quicker than barbri tests. Felt mental fatigue setting in during the PM session and didn't feel great about the MBE overall.
Also, after the UBE, felt that the barbri "refresher" and MPQ sets 5/6 were a complete bullshit scare tactic testing esoteric points of law. The MBE questions were much more straightforward.

[ks2499]

MBE: 177
Essays: 170

Simulated: 141
Refresher: 80/100

Felt way better about essays, thought I failed the mbe for sure. Really is hard to say how you did based on how you feel right after the exam.

Good luck to everyone still waiting!

[sr1986]

(Foreign educated)

Kaplan Midterm - 108
Kaplan Final - 105

Actual MBE - 137.2 (Passed New York!)

[JohnStone]

Kaplan Midterm: 106
Kaplan Final: 125
Actual MBE: 142.9 (passed NY. 295 UBE score)

[mvp99]

Took Barbri and passed the bar. 135/200 simulated MBE iirc. 73/100 on the MBE refresher. Real MBE 169. Felt pretty confident about the first half, but rushed for time and unsure about a lot on the second half.

This is reassuring. I felt the same about the MBE.

for posterity I think I had like

146/200 barbri simulated
69/100 simulated
77% average adaptibar

Real MBE score 170.

[Sheeit]

Took Themis for NY. Completed roughly 95% of the course.

I think overall I was at 64% correct with over 2000 MBE practice questions done.

Simulated: 143 raw
Actual MBE: 151.2 scaled
UBE: 309

I was really unsure of my answers when I was taking the simulated exam. I remember second guessing a lot, but sticking with my first instinct and I scored fine. Going into the MBE, I knew that it wasn't the time to get cute and change answers when my first instinct was usually correct. I was almost always able to knock two answers out, but wasn't sure which of the remaining answers was right for a large portion of the test. I stuck with what worked on my simulated exam. If I was going to fail, it would be doing what I've been doing for my entire prep course. I honestly wasn't sure how I did though. There were days where I was sure that I failed by a couple of points, and days that I knew I had passed. It was a roller coaster.

My advice is if you're taking a prep course, trust in the program. Stick with what trends you identify in the course. There were a solid 15-20 questions on the simulated exam that were toss ups that I could've very easily changed the answer to. I stuck with my instinct, and got them right. If you keep track of things, and you always narrow it down to 2 answers, but choose the wrong one, pay attention to that. Find out why that is. Attack it and get better. If you can't, then try to recognize that pattern. Likewise, if you're getting them right, don't change anything when you take the exam. Don't overthink it. At times, it honestly felt like I was still doing part of the prep course.

[it'sjustme]

Barbri. On the midterm, I scored 99/200.

Real MBE - 145.1
Post-MBE - Thought I crushed the first set of 100, but consistently got it down to 2 choices and guessed on many of the second set of 100. Overall, felt solid.
Passed NY.

Only completed 40-45% of Barbri's program. Realized early that their method was not going to work for me. I rewrote my outlines three complete times, condensing it further and further each time. Didn't do many MC practice questions until the final week, and ended up doing maybe 7-800 total.