For essays, put Conclusion in the start or at the end? Forum

bluewin888 · Post by **bluewin888** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:11 am

no difference?

LionelHutzJD · Post by **LionelHutzJD** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:14 pm

Both

X cannot make out a viable claim for battery. ISSUE --> RULE --> APPLICATION.
Therefore, X has no viable claim for battery.

Neve · Post by **Neve** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:02 pm

CRAC or CIRAC - conclusion, (issue), rule, application of rule, conclusion

L_William_W · Post by **L_William_W** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:38 pm

I usually IRAC it. It doesn't make sense to start with a conclusion and then analyze the fact pattern. HOWEVER, it varies by state. For example, in New Jersey, they're pretty liberal with essay grading. As long as you spot the main issues, write the rule, and give a half ass analysis, you'll be fine. On a New Jersey essay on last July's bar, there was a bank robbery and the suspects attempted to elude the cops. I confused search incident to lawful arrest with the automobile exception. I think I still got credit. And in the February 2015 NJ bar, I missed half of the issues on the Torts essay and still got a 5 (I flunked February, passed July).

And there are states like New York where there's a specific format they want for each answer and if you deviate from that format then you'll lose a lot of points. I'm not familiar with the NY essays since the two times I took NY, I got my ass handed to me.

ballouttacontrol · Post by **ballouttacontrol** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:47 pm

How do u know if there is a specific format for your state? Do individual States put out model answers? I'm in a non-NY UBE state and barbri hasn't pointed to anything individualized

rcharter1978 · Post by **rcharter1978** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:21 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:How do u know if there is a specific format for your state? Do individual States put out model answers? I'm in a non-NY UBE state and barbri hasn't pointed to anything individualized

You can probably go online to your specific state bar site. I believe that is how they release model answers (at least for CA). But to be fair, I saw CIRAC and IRAC in the model answers. And sometimes, the IRAC was pretty hard to find.

I think you probably can't go wrong if you stick with CIRAC or IRAC.

CIRAC is nice because you have the conclusion at the beginning and so it sort of makes it easier for the grader. They know you're conclusion up front, then you present the issue, the rule, analysis and restate the conclusion.

But at the same time IRAC is nice because it saves time and is less redundant, and sometimes the less words on the page makes your paper look a little tidier.

I'm not sure what state you're in, but if you haven't really heard anything, see if you can find some model answers....I suspect most of the time its an IRAC/CIRAC format.....with there not being much of a difference.

And I would guess that even more important than that...would be getting your headings/subheadings down. According to my tutor, who was a former bar grader, he had like 3 minutes to read an essay. That is not a ton of time, so if you can make the paper look good and it has clear headings, it makes it easier for you to write and it makes it easier for the grader to at least see that you're on the right track.

Claire93 · Post by **Claire93** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:35 am

It doesn't matter. But try to verify the details of the essay task. Pay great attention to it.
Well, it is not right of course, but personally I would rather get it done by someone else. Last time I was ordering it online at supreme essay. But it works only when you have no abilities for writing.

rcharter1978 · Post by **rcharter1978** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:14 am

what the wha?

pinaylawyer · Post by **pinaylawyer** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:42 am

got the same issue too. the Barbri essay checker when i turned in my essay last week explicitly said in her comments Try to avoid starting with a conclusion.

soj · Post by **soj** » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:42 pm

pinaylawyer · Post by **pinaylawyer** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:33 pm

^ LOL I hope so. I only got 55 on that essay

I looked at the New York Bar Sample Question and Answer. Thats a classic IRAC. Here in California, I still kind of confused why its called IRAC if some of the sample questions i see are:

Main Issue

Heading
rule

Sub Heading

R
A
C

repeat 100x.
main conclusion

So technically is IHRSRAC repeat 100x ultimate conclusion

Im having problems with timed condition =( I dont think I can finish 1 essay in just 1 hour, throw the pertinent headings and explain 1 by 1.

bluewin888 · Post by **bluewin888** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:41 pm

If you know the conclusion, put the conclusion first.

If not, put conclusion at the end.. put ruled and issue and analysis BEFORE conclusion.

If someone put a WRONG conclusion at the start, it will make feel grader bad...

LionelHutzJD · Post by **LionelHutzJD** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:12 am

bluewin888 wrote:If you know the conclusion, put the conclusion first.

If not, put conclusion at the end.. put ruled and issue and analysis BEFORE conclusion.

If someone put a WRONG conclusion at the start, it will make feel grader bad...

This makes sense. I was outline some contracts issues and really had trouble recalling the rule and thus an appropriate conclusion. If this happens I don't want to put my conclusion first, as I would normally do.

L_William_W · Post by **L_William_W** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 4:15 pm

IMO, unless there's a clear, obvious answer (such as in evidence), graders usually care more about spotting the issues and correctly applying the rules than the actual conclusion.

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