Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2016 Forum

[Virindi]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

i agree the "rules" are really rules, other than literally 3 things: promoter liability, Pierce the Veil, and Duty of Care/Loyalty. The rest is just formalities and procedures the corp has to follow.

Do some practice tests. I've issue spotted 6-7 now, ran the analysis in my head (rather than type) and finding it manageable now.

Also break it up into chunks.

Formation
Incorporation
Stock (valuation, issuance, 10b6, 16b)
SH
BOD
Officers
Mergers and Acqui
Dissolution (vol and invol)

[Virindi]

Anybody else dealing with an eye twitch? My left eye twitches like crazy lately. I can't wait for this BS to be over.

I had that during 2L finals :// Only thing that helped was by finishing final prep and getting away from my staring at my laptop all day

[unidentifiable]

Anybody else dealing with an eye twitch? My left eye twitches like crazy lately. I can't wait for this BS to be over.

yep. my right eye has been going nuts since mid-june. unbearable.

[Rahviveh]

Think im going to give up on corporations. There's too much shit to memorize and none of it really connects or is unified.

i agree the "rules" are really rules, other than literally 3 things: promoter liability, Pierce the Veil, and Duty of Care/Loyalty. The rest is just formalities and procedures the corp has to follow.

Do some practice tests. I've issue spotted 6-7 now, ran the analysis in my head (rather than type) and finding it manageable now.

Also break it up into chunks.

Formation
Incorporation
Stock (valuation, issuance, 10b6, 16b)
SH
BOD
Officers
Mergers and Acqui
Dissolution (vol and invol)

I already did the practice essays if that's what you're referrring to. I guess I'll do them again at some point.

It doesn't help that Corps is being predicted as an essay topic on efficientbarprep.com

[unidentifiable]

anyone else find that additional 100 MBE PQ set in the book a little difficult?

[WhiskeynCoke]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure sale (since the sale eliminated all the JR interests)?

Anyone have an idea?

It seems unfair to have a property be foreclosed upon by a SR interest right after you buy in a foreclosure sale.
-there has to be some equitable remedy for that person.

Also, can someone explain the concept of note following mortgage vs. mortgage following note?

My understanding is that if a mortgage is assumed, the note holder is still personally liable any deficiency not making the creditor whole after a FC sale.

What I don't understand is that if a mortgage interest is released by a bank, why that bank can pursue its claim against the note holder. It is like a deck of cards, where the note is just a placeholder, and once the mortgage amount is satisfied (FMV of property exceed amount owed) then the release of the mortgage dissolves the placeholder (note)?

I agree that you're overthinking this but I figured I'd give you an explanation anyway so you can move on to more productive things.

1. If a property being sold in a foreclosure sale is still subject to a senior mortgage, this will drastically impact its market value. The buyer will likely pay far less for the house than if it were unencumbered. If the senior mortgage then forecloses on the house due to borrower default, the buyer can: (1) pay off the mortgage himself (i.e. with the money saved due to reduced purchase price of home); and (2) subrogate his rights to the mortgagee's, meaning the borrower who defaulted will now personally owe the home buyer (buyer "stands in creditor's shoes).

2. Notes & mortgages: The mortgage (interest securing repayment of the note) always "follows the note" (promise to pay). So anytime you see "note does X" or "mortgage does x," you should assume that thing applies to both the note and the mortgage. In other words, go ahead an abandon any distinction between "note" and "mortgage" from now on and life will be simpler, at least for MBE purposes.

3. Given the above, if B buys A's house and "assumes the mortgage," they are both personally liable for repayment, meaning the bank/mortgagee can go after both of their personal assets beyond the value of the house. However, if the bank/mortgagee releases A (original borrower), the bank/mortgagor can only go after B. This is just basic contracts stuff and works the same as in novations (in contracts) and assignments of the lease (landlord/tenant). The basic premise is that a person has the right to choose who they contract with. I shouldn't get stuck with my only recourse being against some fuck-wad with shitty credit, just because the person with great credit who I vetted and decided to sign a contract with unilaterally decided to delegate his obligation to the fuck-wad.

4. Last thing: I think some of your confusion comes from mixing up "recourse" and "non-recourse" mortgages. In a non-recourse mortgage, the lender can't come after the borrowers personal assets, he can only foreclose on the house (& must eat any loss due to the reduction in home's value). In a recourse mortgage, the borrower is personally liable (so if the foreclosure doesn't result in full payment of the debt, borrower still owes). Recourse is the default, so assume the borrower is personally liable unless the facts state otherwise.

Hope that helps.

[BostonCeltics]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

[BarPreppin'12]

Anybody else dealing with an eye twitch? My left eye twitches like crazy lately. I can't wait for this BS to be over.

I had that during 2L finals :// Only thing that helped was by finishing final prep and getting away from my staring at my laptop all day

I think it's all nerves. Everyone needs to relax. The worst possible thing that can happen is that you have to retake it in 6 months. Big deal. 6 months is not a long time, and compared to your whole life, it's just a drop in the ocean. I think at this point, all you can do is relax, take a deep breath, review stuff, keep answering practice MBE questions and state topics, and enjoy the process.

Remember, nothing is different about the Bar Exam than any other law school exam, except that this exam is better. If you fail a law school exam, you ruin you can get kicked out of school, you might lose many job opportunities, and your path now must ultimately take a different course. If you fail this exam, you won't get kicked out of anywhere. You might lose some job opportunities, but you are not precluded from your path of being a lawyer. The reality is, in the long term, this test is both consequential in that you need it to get your license, and inconsequential in that if you fail it, the penalties for most of us are not very harsh. Uncomfortable, upsetting, but not harsh.

Lots of people asked me, "How can you study only 5 hours? What will you say if you fail?" And My response is, "I don't plan on failing, but if I do, I have 6 more months to pass." It's all a mind set. Like being an athlete. If any of you are athletes, you know what I'm talking about.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Every time I review crim pro, I hear 99 Problems in my head

[ndp1234]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

THANK YOU for posting this because I've been feeling the same way.I had even reached 80% in the mixed sets. Now all of a sudden I'm scoring high 50s-low 60s. I've been freaking out because I thought maybe I'm just not retaining information or losing information I already knew because I had started focusing on MEE subjects.

[BarPreppin'12]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

THANK YOU for posting this because I've been feeling the same way.I had even reached 80% in the mixed sets. Now all of a sudden I'm scoring high 50s-low 60s. I've been freaking out because I thought maybe I'm just not retaining information or losing information I already knew because I had started focusing on MEE subjects.

Probably a combination. You are losing information because your brain is deeming them less important than the new information going in, and the old information had less neural pathways to it to begin with. You don't lose information, you just fail to retrieve it, that's all forgetting is. The next step is that the questions genuinely try to trick you. So, it is a combination of both.

How I study is I divide my day in 2. One half goes to State Topics, one half goes to MBE topics. Also, if you keep forgetting an area of law, or a subtopic, try some associations. Like, review it while eating a food you like, or something. You need to build more neural connections to the place in your brain that is storing that piece of information.

(I was a molecular biology and chemistry minor)

[hirkaismyname]

If a B of a foreclosed property takes it subject to a SR interest, what are the remedies available to him if that SR Interest decides to exercise their right to foreclose on the SR mortgage that remains on the land post foreclosure sale (since the sale eliminated all the JR interests)?

Anyone have an idea?

It seems unfair to have a property be foreclosed upon by a SR interest right after you buy in a foreclosure sale.
-there has to be some equitable remedy for that person.

Also, can someone explain the concept of note following mortgage vs. mortgage following note?

My understanding is that if a mortgage is assumed, the note holder is still personally liable any deficiency not making the creditor whole after a FC sale.

What I don't understand is that if a mortgage interest is released by a bank, why that bank can pursue its claim against the note holder. It is like a deck of cards, where the note is just a placeholder, and once the mortgage amount is satisfied (FMV of property exceed amount owed) then the release of the mortgage dissolves the placeholder (note)?

I agree that you're overthinking this but I figured I'd give you an explanation anyway so you can move on to more productive things.

1. If a property being sold in a foreclosure sale is still subject to a senior mortgage, this will drastically impact its market value. The buyer will likely pay far less for the house than if it were unencumbered. If the senior mortgage then forecloses on the house due to borrower default, the buyer can: (1) pay off the mortgage himself (i.e. with the money saved due to reduced purchase price of home); and (2) subrogate his rights to the mortgagee's, meaning the borrower who defaulted will now personally owe the home buyer (buyer "stands in creditor's shoes).

2. Notes & mortgages: The mortgage (interest securing repayment of the note) always "follows the note" (promise to pay). So anytime you see "note does X" or "mortgage does x," you should assume that thing applies to both the note and the mortgage. In other words, go ahead an abandon any distinction between "note" and "mortgage" from now on and life will be simpler, at least for MBE purposes.

3. Given the above, if B buys A's house and "assumes the mortgage," they are both personally liable for repayment, meaning the bank/mortgagee can go after both of their personal assets beyond the value of the house. However, if the bank/mortgagee releases A (original borrower), the bank/mortgagor can only go after B. This is just basic contracts stuff and works the same as in novations (in contracts) and assignments of the lease (landlord/tenant). The basic premise is that a person has the right to choose who they contract with. I shouldn't get stuck with my only recourse being against some fuck-wad with shitty credit, just because the person with great credit who I vetted and decided to sign a contract with unilaterally decided to delegate his obligation to the fuck-wad.

4. Last thing: I think some of your confusion comes from mixing up "recourse" and "non-recourse" mortgages. In a non-recourse mortgage, the lender can't come after the borrowers personal assets, he can only foreclose on the house (& must eat any loss due to the reduction in home's value). In a recourse mortgage, the borrower is personally liable (so if the foreclosure doesn't result in full payment of the debt, borrower still owes). Recourse is the default, so assume the borrower is personally liable unless the facts state otherwise.

Hope that helps.

"Hope that helps"...Yes, tremendously! Thank you good sir.

[hirkaismyname]

Anybody else dealing with an eye twitch? My left eye twitches like crazy lately. I can't wait for this BS to be over.

yep. my right eye has been going nuts since mid-june. unbearable.

Had a huge problem with this...how I solved it:

Get some more potassium in to your diet. Bananas in the mornings (pun intended) have been a big help for getting rid of my eye twitches. Plus I started taking multi-vitamins for Vit-B deficiencies.

Also, I do eye exercises where I look in every direction to the maximum bearability (sometimes painful -- but think of it as stretching after leg days at the gym). So, I start with Up, Down, Right, Left (hold for 5 secs each), and then I look in the NE - SW - NW - SE directions consecutively. Repeat times 3.

Hope that helps.

[BarPreppin'12]

Anybody else dealing with an eye twitch? My left eye twitches like crazy lately. I can't wait for this BS to be over.

yep. my right eye has been going nuts since mid-june. unbearable.

Had a huge problem with this...how I solved it:

Get some more potassium in to your diet. Bananas in the mornings (pun intended) have been a big help for getting rid of my eye twitches. Plus I started taking multi-vitamins for Vit-B deficiencies.

Also, I do eye exercises where I look in every direction to the maximum bearability (sometimes painful -- but think of it as stretching after leg days at the gym). So, I start with Up, Down, Right, Left (hold for 5 secs each), and then I look in the NE - SW - NW - SE directions consecutively. Repeat times 3.

Hope that helps.

Ah, I think it's just nerves and stress. I re-iterate. The bar exam is not a big deal. Failing is not a big deal, passing is not a big deal. Being healthy, now that is a big deal. Personally, I don't study for more than 5 hours a day to keep stress down.

[rambleon65]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

THANK YOU for posting this because I've been feeling the same way.I had even reached 80% in the mixed sets. Now all of a sudden I'm scoring high 50s-low 60s. I've been freaking out because I thought maybe I'm just not retaining information or losing information I already knew because I had started focusing on MEE subjects.

Probably a combination. You are losing information because your brain is deeming them less important than the new information going in, and the old information had less neural pathways to it to begin with. You don't lose information, you just fail to retrieve it, that's all forgetting is. The next step is that the questions genuinely try to trick you. So, it is a combination of both.

How I study is I divide my day in 2. One half goes to State Topics, one half goes to MBE topics. Also, if you keep forgetting an area of law, or a subtopic, try some associations. Like, review it while eating a food you like, or something. You need to build more neural connections to the place in your brain that is storing that piece of information.

(I was a molecular biology and chemistry minor)

The MBE Test Bank is designed to work with your strengths and weaknesses within each MBE subject. Your first session will be a random selection of questions in one subject area after you have completed the lecture series for that subject. In future sessions, you will see more questions in the areas in which you need more review.

[blach0987]

If anyone knows of essay predictions for the exam, could please post them? I read somewhere that secured transactions is unlikely, but any information would be good to know!

[mu13ski]

If anyone knows of essay predictions for the exam, could please post them? I read somewhere that secured transactions is unlikely, but any information would be good to know!

They were posted earlier in this thread from barbri's predictions. efficientbarprep.com also has predictions up

[BarPreppin'12]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

THANK YOU for posting this because I've been feeling the same way.I had even reached 80% in the mixed sets. Now all of a sudden I'm scoring high 50s-low 60s. I've been freaking out because I thought maybe I'm just not retaining information or losing information I already knew because I had started focusing on MEE subjects.

Probably a combination. You are losing information because your brain is deeming them less important than the new information going in, and the old information had less neural pathways to it to begin with. You don't lose information, you just fail to retrieve it, that's all forgetting is. The next step is that the questions genuinely try to trick you. So, it is a combination of both.

How I study is I divide my day in 2. One half goes to State Topics, one half goes to MBE topics. Also, if you keep forgetting an area of law, or a subtopic, try some associations. Like, review it while eating a food you like, or something. You need to build more neural connections to the place in your brain that is storing that piece of information.

(I was a molecular biology and chemistry minor)

The MBE Test Bank is designed to work with your strengths and weaknesses within each MBE subject. Your first session will be a random selection of questions in one subject area after you have completed the lecture series for that subject. In future sessions, you will see more questions in the areas in which you need more review.

But that doesn't make sense much, if you actually think about it. It sounds great in face value, but it means nothing. I bet in each subject there is a topic that you know less so than other topics. For example, you might be amazing with easements, but have problems with covenants and equitable servitude. If you had 20 questions on easements, you might get all of them right, but if you had questions about equitable servitudes, it is likely they would not all be correct. However, this does not mean you are bad at property.

Unless themis can work specifically on inner-subject weakness, this "smart study platform" is more gimmicky than helpful. The best way to study is to try your best to solidify topics and see how they work together in an overarching theme of the subject matter. If that happens and you go into the exam calm, not nervous, and accept any outcome as "fine," it won't be so bad.

[Chardee_MacDennis]

If anyone knows of essay predictions for the exam, could please post them? I read somewhere that secured transactions is unlikely, but any information would be good to know!

https://www.efficientbarprep.com/mee-predictions/

[Vantwins]

Ugh, civ pro. all the deadlines in MD civ pro are 30/15/10, don't know whether I'll remember which number goes with which deadline. After the 1st exam day I'm going to have to press delete in my brain and review the MBE deadlines. annoying. MD also seems to enjoy taking minority views (contributory negligence, lien theory), so I have to remember one thing for day 1 and answer the COMPLETE OPPOSITE on day 2.

Closed down my local library last night. Literally I was reviewing an essay sample answer and they turned the lights off! Exciting Saturday night!

[blach0987]

If anyone knows of essay predictions for the exam, could please post them? I read somewhere that secured transactions is unlikely, but any information would be good to know!

https://www.efficientbarprep.com/mee-predictions/

Thank you!!!

[rambleon65]

Am I the only one whose scores on the mixed sets are actually going down? It seems like the deeper I get into the mixed sets, the more random exceptions Themis tests about. I'm starting to get really worried because I'm starting to consistently score in the 50s now. I was scoring in the 60s before, which isn't much better. But it's really discouraging when I'm scoring in the 50s and the target is always 70.

THANK YOU for posting this because I've been feeling the same way.I had even reached 80% in the mixed sets. Now all of a sudden I'm scoring high 50s-low 60s. I've been freaking out because I thought maybe I'm just not retaining information or losing information I already knew because I had started focusing on MEE subjects.

Probably a combination. You are losing information because your brain is deeming them less important than the new information going in, and the old information had less neural pathways to it to begin with. You don't lose information, you just fail to retrieve it, that's all forgetting is. The next step is that the questions genuinely try to trick you. So, it is a combination of both.

How I study is I divide my day in 2. One half goes to State Topics, one half goes to MBE topics. Also, if you keep forgetting an area of law, or a subtopic, try some associations. Like, review it while eating a food you like, or something. You need to build more neural connections to the place in your brain that is storing that piece of information.

(I was a molecular biology and chemistry minor)

The MBE Test Bank is designed to work with your strengths and weaknesses within each MBE subject. Your first session will be a random selection of questions in one subject area after you have completed the lecture series for that subject. In future sessions, you will see more questions in the areas in which you need more review.

But that doesn't make sense much, if you actually think about it. It sounds great in face value, but it means nothing. I bet in each subject there is a topic that you know less so than other topics. For example, you might be amazing with easements, but have problems with covenants and equitable servitude. If you had 20 questions on easements, you might get all of them right, but if you had questions about equitable servitudes, it is likely they would not all be correct. However, this does not mean you are bad at property.

Unless themis can work specifically on inner-subject weakness, this "smart study platform" is more gimmicky than helpful. The best way to study is to try your best to solidify topics and see how they work together in an overarching theme of the subject matter. If that happens and you go into the exam calm, not nervous, and accept any outcome as "fine," it won't be so bad.

It DOES work with inner-subject weaknesses. Each question is categorized. Check any of the MBE PQs you've done; they're all labeled accordingly.
I had some issues with automobile exceptions to the warrant requirement and i noticed that the subsequent quizzes had a disproportionate amount of questions on automobile exceptions.

As much as Themis has been frustrating for me, there are a lot of hidden features in Themis. Just gotta look around.

[salix]

Every time I review crim pro, I hear 99 Problems in my head

http://www.slu.edu/Documents/law/Law%20 ... rticle.pdf

[Chardee_MacDennis]

Every time I review crim pro, I hear 99 Problems in my head

http://www.slu.edu/Documents/law/Law%20 ... rticle.pdf

I've read that before. It's pretty great.

[Rahviveh]

Every time I review crim pro, I hear 99 Problems in my head

http://www.slu.edu/Documents/law/Law%20 ... rticle.pdf

I've read that before. It's pretty great.

Yeah some bald fat loser gets paid 200k to write it. Great stuff!